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Component swapping or Ship build pre-sets please

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Component swapping or Ship build pre-sets please

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.27.2014 , 08:57 PM | #11
I would be much happier with this FOR my strikes. The type 2 I could use like 3 or 4 builds on for different ships. Its easy to specialize with it, hard to generalize with it.

dancezwithnubz's Avatar


dancezwithnubz
06.27.2014 , 09:36 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
Which could also be read as "swapping to the most specialized build for any task, which you got off of these forums" triumphs over "pilot skill".
That's a little harsh.

Setting up a Blackbolt for bomber clearing duties in domination deprives me of that ship in tdm.

Heck, just two different hangers. One for each game mode?

I'd have both my emp/thermite domination ship and a recharge boost for eternity setup I like for tdm.

Magira's Avatar


Magira
06.27.2014 , 11:57 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by dancezwithnubz View Post

Heck, just two different hangers. One for each game mode?
That's it. An excellent idea!
The Red Eclipse: Ynaxi, Thamari, Shakrj , Lorilee, Maedu
Guild: The Wookiees Legacy:Shockwaverider
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shockwave_Rider

Magira's Avatar


Magira
06.28.2014 , 02:07 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
Which could also be read as "swapping to the most specialized build for any task, which you got off of these forums" triumphs over "pilot skill".
I'm actually pretty sure that there are more and no less "Pilot Skill" is required for the effective use of a variety of ships.
The Red Eclipse: Ynaxi, Thamari, Shakrj , Lorilee, Maedu
Guild: The Wookiees Legacy:Shockwaverider
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shockwave_Rider

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
06.28.2014 , 06:10 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
Which could also be read as "swapping to the most specialized build for any task, which you got off of these forums" triumphs over "pilot skill".
Most of the builds are fairly obvious from sufficient experience. Stasie's thread is convenient for new players, but most of the variations have been tried by all the veterans already.

And, seriously Nemarus? Are you really implying that people who like to specialized builds for their ships aren't good pilots?
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

vladunk's Avatar


vladunk
06.28.2014 , 06:49 AM | #16
I think Nem is saying specialty builds > pilot skill, not saying people that use specialty builds are bad pilots. If you reduce the number of slots you can bring you reduce how many specialties you can have and might force people to go a more general route instead. I think it would just increase the use of the OP ships though.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
06.28.2014 , 07:06 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by vladunk View Post
I think it would just increase the use of the OP ships though.
Don't thinking it would change anything. Those who would put OP ships "just in case" are mostly already doing so.

If restricted hangars can show BioWare which ships are the most OP in a better way than now through metrics (fewer underdog in hangars), I'm for it.

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
06.28.2014 , 08:42 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
Most of the builds are fairly obvious from sufficient experience. Stasie's thread is convenient for new players, but most of the variations have been tried by all the veterans already.

And, seriously Nemarus? Are you really implying that people who like to specialized builds for their ships aren't good pilots?
No. I was rebuking the notion that hot-swapping components would cause theorycrafting to triumph over "brute force". I don't know what "brute force" can possibly be referring to except pilot skill. And as for throrycrafting, there are maybe 15 people across all servers who do the work and experimentation to identify the best builds. Everyone else is a follower who can't even seem to take the time to read every tooltip, let alone do simple math.

At least on my server, there were just three of us flying SIM's for a good two months after 2.6 came out. I don't know how a build could be more obvious, and yet only when I explained in a post how I was obliterating everyone did we suddenly see an explosion of SIM's in Domination. It's the same reason I don't go into great detail about any of my builds on public forums anymore. I might hint at something, to invite people to do their own exploration, but I don't believe in playing half the game for people.

I've actually never even looked at Stasie's guide, because it would ruin half the fun for me. I am fine with other players using it, but honestly I think most find it to be information overload. I know it talked about SIM's long before I mentioned them, but on my server, they only spread once I really hammered home why they are so effective, which lead to their being openly discussed and shared on TEH Gsf channels.

I don't know how hot swappable components would change the game, but I know it would not make anyone a better theorycrafter, or make theorycrafting a bigger part of the game. The people who persist in flying bad builds now would still do so. The people who look to others to tell them what to fly would still do so. Those of us who actually figure out what works best for what situation would have slightly more flexibility than we do now (since we could make two Blackbolts, for example), but I don't think it would change much for us. With five ships, good builders and good pilots should be able to handle anything, at least so long as we are stuck with these two game types.

If we got more gametypes, I could see us having different readied bars for each one. But again, the more slots you give people, the more safe they will feel in building a fleet of specialized ships, which (I believe) decrease the chance anyone would build a generalist ship.
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

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Magira's Avatar


Magira
06.28.2014 , 09:14 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
No. I was rebuking the notion that hot-swapping components would cause theorycrafting to triumph over "brute force". I don't know what "brute force" can possibly be referring to except pilot skill.
I meant more the way of playing. I am pleased when playfulness, unconventional configurations and absurd maneuvers lead to profits. Significantly more than if the game is won purely by damage and pure superiority.

The fewer places in the hangar is even less room for crazy ship configurations. The few courts must of course be filled with the strongest ships.

The problem I have now with five seats and must leave some ships at home, I would like to fly out of pure fun. Well, I manage myself so that I kept free for the 5th place in the hangar for experimental configurations. With only three places I would actually take only rely on the OP ships. That would be more than boring ...
The Red Eclipse: Ynaxi, Thamari, Shakrj , Lorilee, Maedu
Guild: The Wookiees Legacy:Shockwaverider
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shockwave_Rider

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
06.28.2014 , 10:53 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
No. I was rebuking the notion that hot-swapping components would cause theorycrafting to triumph over "brute force". I don't know what "brute force" can possibly be referring to except pilot skill. And as for throrycrafting, there are maybe 15 people across all servers who do the work and experimentation to identify the best builds. Everyone else is a follower who can't even seem to take the time to read every tooltip, let alone do simple math.

At least on my server, there were just three of us flying SIM's for a good two months after 2.6 came out. I don't know how a build could be more obvious, and yet only when I explained in a post how I was obliterating everyone did we suddenly see an explosion of SIM's in Domination. It's the same reason I don't go into great detail about any of my builds on public forums anymore. I might hint at something, to invite people to do their own exploration, but I don't believe in playing half the game for people.

I've actually never even looked at Stasie's guide, because it would ruin half the fun for me. I am fine with other players using it, but honestly I think most find it to be information overload. I know it talked about SIM's long before I mentioned them, but on my server, they only spread once I really hammered home why they are so effective, which lead to their being openly discussed and shared on TEH Gsf channels.

I don't know how hot swappable components would change the game, but I know it would not make anyone a better theorycrafter, or make theorycrafting a bigger part of the game. The people who persist in flying bad builds now would still do so. The people who look to others to tell them what to fly would still do so. Those of us who actually figure out what works best for what situation would have slightly more flexibility than we do now (since we could make two Blackbolts, for example), but I don't think it would change much for us. With five ships, good builders and good pilots should be able to handle anything, at least so long as we are stuck with these two game types.

If we got more gametypes, I could see us having different readied bars for each one. But again, the more slots you give people, the more safe they will feel in building a fleet of specialized ships, which (I believe) decrease the chance anyone would build a generalist ship.
There are so few possible combinations in gsf that the "best" builds are derived pretty quickly. Maybe not by the people that never bothered to get any more than 2 ships, but the top pilots? The forums will popularize the best builds for everyone, and there can be some argument about secondary component types that actually require some computation to figure out "optimal", but I think the core of the original builds were pretty obvious to people playing many different ship types at a high level. At least they should have been. In any event, gsf is so situational that personal preference can often trump builds that are mathematically highest dps/etc.

As for promoting generalist ships - you'd have to drop the number of slots way down before that happens. 3 won't cut it, since there are only 3 basic functions: dogfight/sniper/node holder - and they are filled by specialized builds. And if you do drive the number of slots all the way down, everyone would just run Stingfires.

I think giving more *slots* as opposed to on-the-fly build changes, would encourage other hulls to be flown in gsf - I for one would take out my Rycer a lot more if I didn't need to keep Mangler/Sting/Razorwire/Non-mastered ship on the bar all the time.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands