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Is Nova Dive even worth investing in

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Is Nova Dive even worth investing in

Magira's Avatar


Magira
06.25.2014 , 08:28 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
I'll say again--if you aren't using Shield to Engine converter (which is awesome) or EMP Field, there is no reason to use NovaDrive instead of Flashfire.
If you arenīt using Burst Laser and Cluster (which are awesome), there is no Reason to use Flashfire instead of Novadive. Or Quarrel without railgun. Or, or ...
The Red Eclipse: Ynaxi, Thamari, Shakrj , Lorilee, Maedu
Guild: The Wookiees Legacy:Shockwaverider
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shockwave_Rider

Verain's Avatar


Verain
06.25.2014 , 08:41 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
I'll say again--if you aren't using Shield to Engine converter (which is awesome) or EMP Field, there is no reason to use NovaDrive instead of Flashfire.

Power Dive is available on the Flashfire as well.
I'll still disagree with the first, and correct my post on the second. I have no idea why I thought otherwise. This didn't get added later or something, did it?

If you are running lasers / pods / telem / disto / barrel, you will have a ship that, compared to the flashfire:

> Under ideal conditions deals a few percent less damage than the flashfire (quads are more damage than lasers)
> Under dogfighting conditions, has greater accuracy and stickiness
> Lacks large reactor


Is it fair to say that the flashfire is better than the novadive at this build? Sure. But it's not strictly better than.


The flashfire build that is probably generally best in game at dogfighting runs burst laser cannon and cluster missiles, and for sure the novadive can't do this, or be this scout. But he can be a lot of scouts that the flashfire can't, and I don't think you require shield to engine or EMP to make that worthwhile.




Seriously, have flashfires had power dive all this time?
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Ardaneb's Avatar


Ardaneb
06.25.2014 , 09:16 AM | #13
Consider investing 5K of ship req into the shield to engine converter (tier 2 upgrade). Fly it around trying to get in a few hits on each ship with the lasers plus a couple pods (waiting for the kill will just expose you in a way that will not happen once you get everything upgraded). Focus your attention on achieving line of sight breaks and getting out of range of ships that target you. You will have seemingly infinite boost with this upgrade right up until someone shoots you. Try this style. It is unique to Novadive/Blackbolt and it is so much fun.
Paloga/Lantor

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
06.25.2014 , 11:01 AM | #14
It was my main ship for a looong time, from GSF beginning till Clarion came. I have 3 days of flytime with my Nova.
Trick is simple, don't fight with people, instead shoot those who are fighting someone else.
Also, awesome at gunsheep killing.

Nemarus says that any (with that few exceptions) Nova build could be built on a Flashfire too, but I think it is safe to say that if you'd built a Flashfire like a Nova, you definitely aren't getting the best of it.

Nova is THE scout ship, with absurd mobility. Yes I count with taking S2E converter and/or engine recharge.

So to answer the basic question, yes, hell yes, it is worth investing in!
Sunrage of The Progenitor

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
06.25.2014 , 11:24 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Slivovidze View Post

Nova is THE scout ship, with absurd mobility. Yes I count with taking S2E converter and/or engine recharge.
This is ONLY true if you use Shield to Engine Converter, which most people don't. Otherwise it has zero mobility advantage over a Flashfire. They have the same base speed, some base turning rate, and they both have the Thruster component. They both have Barrel Roll and Power Dive.

That's why I said if you don't use S2E or EMP Field, you are flying a build that could be duplicated on a Flashfire--with the added benefit of getting a Reactor instead of Sensors.

And on the topic of Sensors, they are really only useful if paired with Shield to Engine Converter. In that case, you can use Dampening Sensors to enable you to get off others' sensors more quickly--this, combined with the extended boost provided by S2E, lets you do true hit and fade. But again, that benefit is entirely dependent on using S2E, which most people don't even look at.

Too many people read the text description of the Nova/Blackbolt and assume it has some inherent quality that makes it the fastest ship. But it doesn't. All Scouts have the same base speed and mobility, and if you don't take the Shield to Engine converter, the Nova has no speed advantage. I want to make sure everyone, especially new players, understand that. Even in my own Guild, this false assumption keeps cropping up, and people continue to fly Blackbolt builds that could be duplicated better on a Sting.

Believe me, I love my Blackbolt with S2E and Dampening Sensors. It's my favorite ship. It's an amazing hit-and-fade fighter and is especially useful if you are a "known pilot" and get focused a lot, like I do. But that build requires experience to really shine. You have to know the maps, you have to understand sensor ranges, you have to know the boost capacity and ranges of various ships, and you have to know how to manage your own cooldowns and energy levels.

It is definitely not something I would recommend for new pilots who are not at high risk of being focused. They'll have a much easier time surviving and killing in a Flashfire/Sting or a different class entirely.

But more than anything, I want to kill the myth that the NovaDrive, regardless of component choices, is the "fastest recon Scout".
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

FridgeLM's Avatar


FridgeLM
06.25.2014 , 12:24 PM | #16
The blackbolt is my favorite scout. I go mass mass booster power on it, with laser cannon and pods. I'd agree it's probably a beginner's trap but once you learn how to fly well it's a fun ship to play and not hard to do well on.
<Death and Taxes>

Magira's Avatar


Magira
06.25.2014 , 12:48 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post

It is definitely not something I would recommend for new pilots who are not at high risk of being focused. They'll have a much easier time surviving and killing in a Flashfire/Sting or a different class entirely.
I can not understand your Argumentation unfortunately.

Beginner-friendly are the settings with pods + (Quad) laser at both scouts. These do not differ significantly.

The Burst Laser Setting of the Flash is anything but beginner-friendly and requires high flying skills to get close enough to stay at the opponent. Otherwise burst lasers are not effective. Sting / Flash was the most difficult-to-master ship for me and I can do it for only a short time reasonably well play without me dizzy.
The Red Eclipse: Ynaxi, Thamari, Shakrj , Lorilee, Maedu
Guild: The Wookiees Legacy:Shockwaverider
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shockwave_Rider

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
06.25.2014 , 02:03 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
That's why I said if you don't use S2E or EMP Field, you are flying a build that could be duplicated on a Flashfire--with the added benefit of getting a Reactor instead of Sensors.
Nobody can ever call you wrong on this one, but thing is that if you would duplicate Nova build with a Flashfire, you would waste half of Flashfire's potential.

To me, while they could be built the same, they represent completely different playstyles:
Nova is best built as THE scout with the real ability to boost indefinitely. S2E, Engine Recharge, Quick-Charge Shield, or any combination of these make sure of that. Additionaly, you can only equip "lightweight" weaponry - Pods, LLC, LC.
Flashfire, while having access to some of above mentioned components, is better built as the dogfighter with Disto Field, Clusters, BLC, or Quads with Pods and TT or BO systems.

If anyone has access to Flashfire, there is no reason to count with them using LLC, Engine Recharge or Quick-Charge Shield. Sure they could, but since anyone has a Nova, they would better bring a Nova for these things and gear up their Flashfire for dogfighting like anyone else does. Not doing so would be like bringing Charged Plating on Sledgehammer. Because as we know, we can't swap components mid-fight, so if you can accomodate both Nova and Flash in your loadout, you can easily swap your strengths depending on situation. Which you obviously could not if you brought a Nova and a built-like-Nova Flashfire.
Sunrage of The Progenitor

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
06.25.2014 , 03:19 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Slivovidze View Post

If anyone has access to Flashfire, there is no reason to count with them using LLC, Engine Recharge or Quick-Charge Shield. Sure they could, but since anyone has a Nova, they would better bring a Nova for these things and gear up their Flashfire for dogfighting like anyone else does. Not doing so would be like bringing Charged Plating on Sledgehammer. Because as we know, we can't swap components mid-fight, so if you can accomodate both Nova and Flash in your loadout, you can easily swap your strengths depending on situation. Which you obviously could not if you brought a Nova and a built-like-Nova Flashfire.
Scrab, the highest record setting Scout pilot, primarily ran a T2 Scout with TT, DF, Quads and Pods. He could've flown that configuration on a T1, except that he'd trade Quads for MLC's (not a big change) and he'd trade a Reactor for a Sensor.

The Flashfire has a couple of viable builds, since it has a wide variety of components that are effective. For a new pilot, it is more forgiving and less trappy. Sure, if you elect to go the BO/BLC/CM route on your T2, then you could use the T1 for a MLC/Pods build, and keep both in your readied bar for versatility.

But the OP wasn't asking about that--he was asking whether to keep focusing his time on the T1 or move to something else. And while I love the T1, I think the vast majority of pilots should explore other ship types before committing to the T1.

I view the T1 as the lightsaber of GSF. Elegant and deadly when expertly constructed and wielded with experience. But easy to use improperly, which can result in self-injury :P

That's not to say that a Flashfire, Clarion, Condor or Bomber are simple "point and shoot" weapons. But they do offer a wider variety of unique, viable builds and fewer traps to fall into. At the very least, they are more durable, which means more time to react to threats and (hopefully) less time respawning.

Once the fundamentals are strong, I totally think it's worthwhile for an experienced pilot to come back to the T1 Scout and make it work.

At the end of the day, all I want is for people to be honest with new pilots. Don't tell them, "The T1 is THE speed/mobility Scout!" without also making sure they understand what components are actually required in order to make that statement true. Especially when the T1's default loadout is so very far from that.
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.25.2014 , 03:25 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
Scrab, the highest record setting Scout pilot, primarily ran a T2 Scout with TT, DF, Quads and Pods. He could've flown that configuration on a T1, except that he'd trade Quads for MLC's (not a big change) and he'd trade a Reactor for a Sensor.

The Flashfire has a couple of viable builds, since it has a wide variety of components that are effective. For a new pilot, it is more forgiving and less trappy. Sure, if you elect to go the BO/BLC/CM route on your T2, then you could use the T1 for a MLC/Pods build, and keep both in your readied bar for versatility.

But the OP wasn't asking about that--he was asking whether to keep focusing his time on the T1 or move to something else. And while I love the T1, I think the vast majority of pilots should explore other ship types before committing to the T1.

I view the T1 as the lightsaber of GSF. Elegant and deadly when expertly constructed and wielded with experience. But easy to use improperly, which can result in self-injury :P

That's not to say that a Flashfire, Clarion, Condor or Bomber are simple "point and shoot" weapons. But they do offer a wider variety of unique, viable builds and fewer traps to fall into. At the very least, they are more durable, which means more time to react to threats and (hopefully) less time respawning.

Once the fundamentals are strong, I totally think it's worthwhile for an experienced pilot to come back to the T1 Scout and make it work.

At the end of the day, all I want is for people to be honest with new pilots. Don't tell them, "The T1 is THE speed/mobility Scout!" without also making sure they understand what components are actually required in order to make that statement true. Especially when the T1's default loadout is so very far from that.
Same with any ship honestly The starting equipment on almost every ship is pretty bad. Clarion I am looking at you.