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How do you feel about time to kill in GSF?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
How do you feel about time to kill in GSF?

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.20.2014 , 02:14 AM | #11
Everyone knows my thoughts.

T2 Scout kill to fast (even the devs have already said this dont know why we keep bringing it up.)

T3 Scout kill to slow

and Strikes kill to slow.

Gunships seem like in a good spot

T1 scout seems like a good spot.

Bombers I am unsure about, I feel good about Mine layer, but others I am unsure about.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
06.20.2014 , 02:40 AM | #12
Only an issue for scouts. TTK is fine everwhere else in the game.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Loc_n_lol's Avatar


Loc_n_lol
06.20.2014 , 02:47 AM | #13
I have mixed feelings about it... it's too short against noobs and too long against veterans.

There's a bunch of one-shots or near-enough that should probably go. There's the absurdity of BLCs, Blaster overcharge, Damage overcharge, and crits in general.

But then again there's all those semi-lopsided matches where I'm feeling pretty much invincible, as long as the enemy team didnt bring any good gunships or a battlescout with a grudge, I can outrun and outlive anything they'll throw at me...

Overall it seems to be balanced in a way that magnifies the skill gap. Burst is king, experienced pilots can evade and regenerate shields forever, newcomers are sitting ducks that can't hit anything... For a game that's not supposed to be competitive, it doesn't keep the casuals coming back.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
06.20.2014 , 11:23 AM | #14
I dunno, I certainly see plenty of new players coming back.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
06.20.2014 , 11:42 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Only an issue for scouts. TTK is fine everwhere else in the game.
As this comes from a gunship pilot, I will answer from the perspective of a scout pilot.
My current T2 scout build (burst,cluster - no damage cooldowns) has roughly a TTK of 3 seconds at point blank range (500m) against any gusnhip without upgrades. More realistic are 4-6 seconds because it's very difficult to get into 500m range of a target and sometimes shots miss.
It happens very often that I get hit by some gunship, almost being killed by it. I counter that with boosting those 15km through empty space attacking said gunship from the side and killing it (most of the time). That gunship pilot had more than enough time to prepare a defense or run away.
(By the way, gunships are the class with the highest kill potential against lowskilled/new players in deathmatches)

Now to a more general point of view:
From my experience, in almost every game, but especially deathmatch games. Most people seem afraid of dying. It happens very often that I get attacked by someone in a scout or strike then turn around, start shooting back and that person just runs away (futile - my booster lasts longer) instead of trying to fight me; he's giving up his advantage. Other people just ahve tunnel vision. They try to kill one of my teammates and don't care if they're being shot at - nothing easier to kill than some dude flying a straight line (this even works against bombers trying to get to some satellite).

Anyway TTK may seem very short sometimes because you don't get a killscreen that tells you what actually killed you. And every so often you have more than one enemy shooting at you.
This game also is about awareness. If you know where your enemies are you have a huge advantage. If you don't look at the triangles on your hud, and you therefore miss an enemy approaching you will be down half your hitpoints before you realise what's going on. And awareness has something to do with practice. If you're new to the game the last thing you look at are those triangle indicators, but you need to do that.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
06.20.2014 , 11:56 AM | #16
I don't just fly gunship, but I guess you do just fly scout?
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
06.20.2014 , 12:02 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Danalon View Post
As this comes from a gunship pilot, I will answer from the perspective of a scout pilot.
My current T2 scout build (burst,cluster - no damage cooldowns) has roughly a TTK of 3 seconds at point blank range (500m) against any gusnhip without upgrades. More realistic are 4-6 seconds because it's very difficult to get into 500m range of a target and sometimes shots miss.
It happens very often that I get hit by some gunship, almost being killed by it. I counter that with boosting those 15km through empty space attacking said gunship from the side and killing it (most of the time). That gunship pilot had more than enough time to prepare a defense or run away.
(By the way, gunships are the class with the highest kill potential against lowskilled/new players in deathmatches)

Now to a more general point of view:
From my experience, in almost every game, but especially deathmatch games. Most people seem afraid of dying. It happens very often that I get attacked by someone in a scout or strike then turn around, start shooting back and that person just runs away (futile - my booster lasts longer) instead of trying to fight me; he's giving up his advantage. Other people just ahve tunnel vision. They try to kill one of my teammates and don't care if they're being shot at - nothing easier to kill than some dude flying a straight line (this even works against bombers trying to get to some satellite).

Anyway TTK may seem very short sometimes because you don't get a killscreen that tells you what actually killed you. And every so often you have more than one enemy shooting at you.
This game also is about awareness. If you know where your enemies are you have a huge advantage. If you don't look at the triangles on your hud, and you therefore miss an enemy approaching you will be down half your hitpoints before you realise what's going on. And awareness has something to do with practice. If you're new to the game the last thing you look at are those triangle indicators, but you need to do that.
Running away in Deathmatch is how you get your team to win. It's not about outrunning a pursuer forever (though outrunning even a T2 Scout is possible with some builds). It's about recognizing when you've lost the element of surprise, realizing when you won't reliably win 1v1, and then going evasive to make it take longer for the other person to kill you.

During that time, that person chasing you is now removed as a threat to your allies, and in turn he is vulnerable to your allies coming in to kill him.

This is the biggest mistake new pilots make in TDM, and why they get farmed and their team loses. They focus purely on offense, with the mindset that they have to gets as many kills as possible before they themselves die. And then they end up getting 0-2 kills at most before they are shot down.

Good pilots know that wasting an enemy's time (especially if that enemy is an ace) offers far more potential for victory than just laying down and dying.

And many aces will give up on a difficult target who goes evasive, so that they can instead get multiple kills on other easier, more distracted targets.

The hardest person to kill is someone who is trying to kill you, especially if it turns into a turning war (which BLC's will always win). It's far easier to kill someone who is busy with someone else.
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

GooberNoob's Avatar


GooberNoob
06.20.2014 , 12:44 PM | #18
this thread got me thinking: what is the time to kill for a stock ship vs a mastered ship, so I did some basic math (lots of rounding numbers, probly some errors, point em out if you see em) on 3 possible scenarios, starguards firing rapids at each other at less then 500m, backbolts firing rapids at 3km and noob rapids blackbolt vs mastered blackbolt with laser cannons. all of these maths are factoring in evasion, armor, accuracy, shield vs hull damage amounts (assuming you took the more damage to shields option) and shield bleed-through for rocket pods.
this also assumes that there is no movement and both ships are firing with their ships perfectly facing each other and have perfect aim. In fights where you are firing at the edge of your screen, accuracy and evasion will count for more, not less, so these are best case scenarios for the stock ships.

for the TLDR here are my results:
starguards less then 500m rapid fire:
stock time to kill mastered 6.36 seconds
mastered time to kill stock 3.33 seconds

blackbolts 3km:
stock time to kill mastered 5.49 seconds
mastered time to kill stock 2.41 seconds with RFL 2.32 with LC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my bad math notes:
starguard/rycer RFL compairison

maxed
3600 +30 per second shield
1450 hull

stock
2880 shield
1450 hull

4.33 seconds for stock to break shields

2.11 seconds for maxed to break shields

2.03 seconds for stock to break hull (vs 14% armor)
1.32 seconds for maxed to break hull (vs 5% armor)

stock time to kill 6.36 seconds

maxed time to kill
3.33 seconds

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
scout duel 3km rockets and rapids
stock:
722dps at 85% accuracy

405dps at 90% accuracy 20% pierce

13% evasion
2080 shield
950 hp
0% armor
max:
rapids
1145 vs sheilds
9970 vs hull
91% accuracy
rockets
437 96% accuracy 28% pierce

2080shield
950 hp
9% armor
33% evasion

stock effective dps:
rfl: 341 (722* .52)*.91
rockets: 210 (405*.57)*.91 20% pierce = 168 vs shields 42 to hull
sum: 509 dps with 42 bleed per second
time for shields: 4.08 seconds, bleed in that time: 171 leaving 779 effective hp
1.41 seconds after to kill hull
total ttk: 5.49 seconds

max effective dps:
rfl 893 sheilds (1145*.78) hp 777 (997*.78)
rockets 362 (437 * .83) 28% pierce = 260 vs shields 101 to hull
sum: 1153 dps with 101 bleed per second
time for shields: 1.8 seconds, bleed in that time: 182 leaving 768 effective hp
0.61 seconds after to kill hull
total ttk: 2.41 seconds

now i'm going to try with normal laser cannons on the max (what I normally fly with)
1164 vs shields, 986 vs hull, 101% accuracy
effective dps:
vs shields 1024(1164*.88) hp 867(986*.88)
rockets 362 (437 * .83) 28% pierce = 260 vs shields 101 to hull
time for shields: 1.69 seconds 170 bleed in that time leaving 780 effective hp
0.63 seconds after to kill hull
total ttk 2.32 seconds

Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
06.21.2014 , 01:26 PM | #19
2.32s TTK against a stock scout under ideal circumstances seems fine to me. Usually the target will move and evade or will not be stock or will not be a scout (other ships have roughly 1.5 times the combined shield+hull hitpoints of a scout or more).

Under ideal circumstances (<500 range, no misses, etc) a stock scout is a 3 shot kill for my T2 scout build. That's around a 1.5s TTK (either 3 shots from BLC or 2 BLC + cluster volley).
Keep in mind that most "real" fights are engaged at more than 500 meters, against moving targets that may try to evade and most of those targets are either not stock or not a scout meaning they have more hitpoints. Mostly that leaves me with a TTK of around 3 seconds - more than enough time to react for the target.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
06.21.2014 , 01:40 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Danalon View Post
Under ideal circumstances (<500 range, no misses, etc) a stock scout is a 3 shot kill for my T2 scout build. That's around a 1.5s TTK (either 3 shots from BLC or 2 BLC + cluster volley).
3 shots make a 1s TTK. The first one is at t=0s, then 0.5s between each shot if no frequency improvements.