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Is it wrong that, revisiting SoR, made me think what the hell went wrong w KotFE?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Is it wrong that, revisiting SoR, made me think what the hell went wrong w KotFE?
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ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.27.2017 , 09:19 PM | #1
Seriously.

I just came back this month after a year away, and opted to play through and finish Shadow of Revan, and finally wrapped up Ziost.

Revisiting this story makes me damn depressed for what the devs did with this awesome lead in to the next expansion, only to crap all over it with the KotFE storyline. Even with dealing with Revan again, I enjoyed the storyline WAY more than the new expansion stories, even though the new ones have a higher production quality.

Anyone else feel the same way, and that the writing team really screwed the pooch until it was howling with the KotFE story?

The damn shame of it was that I think, story plot aside, KotFE and KoTET were two of the strongest expansions BioWare ever released when you consider their quality of life improvements to the game.

Damn - I don't think I've ever played a more frustrating game in the manner of it having so much potential, and being so fun, yet had a creative vision that did everything it possibly could to prevent it from reaching the heights it could have gotten to as an mmo...

Just damn...

PetFish's Avatar


PetFish
06.27.2017 , 10:18 PM | #2
I give them credit for what they attempted to do with Knights but for me it's a big fail.

All the effort that went in for something to replay maybe twice but then spacebarring through every other character really hurts.

It's also so easy and linear that it feels like I'm just watching a movie and not actually playing.
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Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
06.27.2017 , 10:30 PM | #3
I'm the opposite, I really enjoyed Kotet/kotfe. Not that it didn't have it's flaws, all the story in the game does, but I enjoyed Kotet/Fe the most!
SoR was alright. What I did like is how they actually made a whole planner again rather than being locked into chapters without seeing the presence of other people. I really missed that in the latest expansions. Areas like Zakuul don't count as they were still really limited.
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PetFish's Avatar


PetFish
06.28.2017 , 12:22 AM | #4
I also enjoyed the Knights chapters... once or twice.

After that, there's nothing to see or do, since every single character goes through the exact same story. Your Light/Dark choices really don't even matter.

And the "combat"? Seriously, it's so linear and boring and stupid-easy that it really is just like watching a movie... which would have been cool if that's what it really was, but to "play" it 20+ times? No way. I think I did up to chapter 9 of KotFE on all my characters, but then as each chapter came out I did on fewer and fewer and I've only completed KotET on ONE character since there's just no reason to do it on all of them... maybe 2 just so you can try Light/Dark options.

Another fail is all of the generic companions we recruit with no personalities or unique skills or any conversations worth caring about.

Again, I love that they tried something different, but I just don't think it worked. Just look at all the people complaining about no operations or group stuff.

I'm just worried that they won't be able to recover from this and, personally, this will probably be my last subscription period once it runs out after subbing since launch cuz, as it is right now, I just don't care about what's going on in the game, which makes me sad. I'll need to really see/feel something special for me to keep it going.
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Zolxtren's Avatar


Zolxtren
06.28.2017 , 12:26 AM | #5
my ONLY issue is how the Emperor gone a 360 with its personality and thinking....

i personaly liked the NEW changed emperor

but i hate when MAIN characters Instantly change Personality out of tin air and this drasticaly with 0 buildup ....

like BOOM now your like this deal with it..... you were totaly different for thousands of years but who cares BAM your like this now......

Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
06.28.2017 , 12:45 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
awesome lead in to the next expansion

the new ones have a higher production quality.

quality of life improvements to the game.
I mean it isn't all bad is it?

Did I like the change made to the emperor? Not really, they lost everything I liked about him in the transition to Valkorian, Vitiate to me had far more potential and simply had Star Wars written all over him, Valkorian seemed "generic villain". They set up the story quite nicely in SoR and Ziost, dark and foreboding, and then it went all.... keeping up with the Valkorians. I not saying it was all bad, there are highlights for me in some of the chapters, but mainly ones where companions returned. I just wasn't vested in Valkorian and his offspring due to a serious lack of backstory or connection to that backstory, however tenuous the link that was given (Vitiate is now Valkorian, oh okay..... ***?!).

Production values definitely stepped up a notch, and that really has to be praised as it was partially lost in everything else, especially the new cinematic intros and music production (great job!).

QoL was subjective. They went over the top with some of the core game mechanic changes and quite simply didn't think some of them through very well at all in my opinion (Level sync being one major change that sucked a lot of the life out of the game for me and made it less enjoyable).

I mean on the whole, it wasn't all bad, but the bullish pushing of the community down a funnel while refusing to listen to the feedback certainly detracted from the experience. This is why I'm hopeful Keith will learn from the lessons of Ben and take feedback into account and act on it. Time will tell.

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ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.28.2017 , 01:02 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
I mean it isn't all bad is it?

Did I like the change made to the emperor? Not really, they lost everything I liked about him in the transition to Valkorian, Vitiate to me had far more potential and simply had Star Wars written all over him, Valkorian seemed "generic villain". They set up the story quite nicely in SoR and Ziost, dark and foreboding, and then it went all.... keeping up with the Valkorians. I not saying it was all bad, there are highlights for me in some of the chapters, but mainly ones where companions returned. I just wasn't vested in Valkorian and his offspring due to a serious lack of backstory or connection to that backstory, however tenuous the link that was given (Vitiate is now Valkorian, oh okay..... ***?!).

Production values definitely stepped up a notch, and that really has to be praised as it was partially lost in everything else, especially the new cinematic intros and music production (great job!).

QoL was subjective. They went over the top with some of the core game mechanic changes and quite simply didn't think some of them through very well at all in my opinion (Level sync being one major change that sucked a lot of the life out of the game for me and made it less enjoyable).

I mean on the whole, it wasn't all bad, but the bullish pushing of the community down a funnel while refusing to listen to the feedback certainly detracted from the experience. This is why I'm hopeful Keith will learn from the lessons of Ben and take feedback into account and act on it. Time will tell.
For me, the reason it was so bad was because of the disrespect they paid to the story before. I too can appreciate them taking a risk, and if KotFE were very similar to what it is now, but they didn't have Valkorion be Vitiate (instead saving Vitiate for a future expansion), I'd be ok with it, and like you, say "well, they tried something different, but a swing and a miss."

Like the other guy said too - it isn't that Valkorion is a bad character - he's interesting and very nuanced. The trouble is, he ISN'T VITIATE - at least not in terms of personality, and like someone else said, the about face, as well as the way the plot of KotFE seemed to be structured as "We want everyone to forget about the rest of the plot and pretend KotFE and KotET is the only plot you know in the game" from design to story made it feel like it was being forced down the players' throats.

And given BioWare's SWTOR history, first crapping on the players with no more class story, and then this, its like they don't care about consistency at all - shoot, the next installment we may all find out Treek was our long lost sister - the writing was THAT bad in terms of coherency and consistency with what came before.

It was just jarring and tonally different from the rest of the game. Breaks my heart in a sense, because when you get players to trust in their experience and their character's story, you don't betray their trust with changes like that.

Kittybear's Avatar


Kittybear
06.28.2017 , 01:46 AM | #8
i did the chapters on only 12 character and i don't do them again until the next story brings a LI back i haven't gotten back story wise. when Vette came back i went and made a new marauder and ran the full story up till the point i got her back. the only thing i skipped was the planet stories like makeb.

and no Quinn is not a LI but i did love ending his live.

Kolskeggur's Avatar


Kolskeggur
06.28.2017 , 02:02 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kittybear View Post
i did the chapters on only 12 character and i don't do them again until the next story brings a LI back i haven't gotten back story wise. when Vette came back i went and made a new marauder and ran the full story up till the point i got her back. the only thing i skipped was the planet stories like makeb.

and no Quinn is not a LI but i did love ending his live.
12 characters? Are you mad?

I've done KotET on two chars (one LS on Rep side, one DS on Imp side). I've got a few chars parked on chapter 9 of KotFE. I got a multitude of 70s that won't ever even start KotFE. Because it have no replayability whatsoever. You play it once on DS/LS each, and that's that. There's nothing left. It's just tedious, and I won't even start on how disconnected it all feels towards the class stories and even RotHC/SoR.
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AscendingSky's Avatar


AscendingSky
06.28.2017 , 02:33 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
For me, the reason it was so bad was because of the disrespect they paid to the story before. I too can appreciate them taking a risk, and if KotFE were very similar to what it is now, but they didn't have Valkorion be Vitiate (instead saving Vitiate for a future expansion), I'd be ok with it, and like you, say "well, they tried something different, but a swing and a miss."

Like the other guy said too - it isn't that Valkorion is a bad character - he's interesting and very nuanced. The trouble is, he ISN'T VITIATE - at least not in terms of personality, and like someone else said, the about face, as well as the way the plot of KotFE seemed to be structured as "We want everyone to forget about the rest of the plot and pretend KotFE and KotET is the only plot you know in the game" from design to story made it feel like it was being forced down the players' throats.

And given BioWare's SWTOR history, first crapping on the players with no more class story, and then this, its like they don't care about consistency at all - shoot, the next installment we may all find out Treek was our long lost sister - the writing was THAT bad in terms of coherency and consistency with what came before.

It was just jarring and tonally different from the rest of the game. Breaks my heart in a sense, because when you get players to trust in their experience and their character's story, you don't betray their trust with changes like that.

That pretty much sums up my exact opinions about both expansions as well! The break between Ziost and Keeping Up With the Valkorions was like getting halfway through playing one game and then jumping into the middle of another for the second half, it was THAT jarring in terms of lack of narrative consistency and character motivation. The fact that the new story was boring with little to no replay value regardless of class, alignment, and faction was just the extra turd icing on the crap cake we were being force-fed.
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