The point of my post was to illustrate that being a light armor healer isn't necessarily the land of milk and honey. playing the class, and playing past 50 you gradually learn to deal with all of those problems. Some of them are easy, and some of them are a little more difficult. But in the spirit of this thread, I wanted let the OP in on what problems they were in for, if they chose to play a seer/sorc. I wasn't trying to say the class wasn't playable. And I wasn't complaining about it's weaknesses. Just stating that their are problems with it, that don't get discussed, because players are not so disgusted with them enough to post about it.

 

As with any spec or any class, the right group of players can compensate for the weaknesses of your class.

 

It's "easy" to overheal with any class, and all three healers have big healing options that need to be used at appropriate times. Your typical Deliverance cast will crit for about 6k, which is going to be perhaps a third of a health bar on non-tanks in a decently geared raid group. Typically the output from HT is going to be somewhat less than this. You're hardly approaching the threshhold of death.

 

Think back to the days before you had your AoE. Back before raid night. The earliest you can spec into it is LvL 40. Life was a lot different back then. 3 second deliverance casts? Letting more than 2 health bars get low at a time, was a recipe for letting someone wipe. Post lvl 50, before you get geared up, and when your grouping with undergeared players. You're going to lose teammates because big heals didn't land quite fast enough, and the AoE didn't heal quite enough.

 

I would expect to use it on cooldown more often than not. That's typically how it plays out in practice. YMMV.

Your statement is true. The YMMV component is also true. But the Aoe is more difficult to land for full effect, because it ticks longer. Yes it is the king of AoE heals for Ops - but for 4 man content? And I expect the seer AoE to eventually get nerfed down to 6 or fewer targets.

 

We're wandering into the realms of hyperbole, frankly. If you're opting to cancel your casts on a regular basis, you or your raid group are doing something wrong.

Again- you're not thinking about what life was like before raiding. Before your groups were full of experienced, well geared, players who did their jobs right. And before you lost count of how many times you'd seen a specific piece of content. I thought hyperbole was what forums were all about.

 

Examples, please.

Right off the top of my head:

1) Esselles - in HM Vokk ignores threat mechanics to target stationary players with his saber throw - 2 shots

2) Hammer station, final boss cone shaped AoE - fires in the drection of stationary players, even if the tank turns him

3) T5 - large droids indoors pull randomly without a threat mechanic - seers do no healing until after speeding away.

4) Maelstrom Prison - Kilran - the slow effect almost completely shuts down seer healing - In HM he 2 shots

5) Mandalorian raiders - final boss

6) Cadimemu - final boss

7) D7- final boss

8) Kaon- the Big Red Rak that you probably better kite / final fight - the champ melee mob that gives chase & then stuns

 

We can heal all that stuff just fine, after we figure out how to stay alive. After we figure out where we need to be, when to be there, and how to know. If you do that content on level, or try the HM with undergeared players, there are problems with those specific battles that the more mobile healers don't have. A large portion of the "boss" fights have some mobility impairing effect, a choke point where AoEs land, a highly mobile boss that instantly pulls the tank out of healing range, or a mechanic that ignores threat to attack stationary players. Another large group of fights dishes out massive burst DPS that puts the screw to the heavy armor healers. Many fights belong to both groups. And some are just filler. It's sort of blatant, that this was a design goal for the devs.

 

Move>cast>move>cast is how a lot of people play the seer class. All of the solo content will let you do that. It's not optimal, but it works. Right up until they do some group content, where it doesn't.

 

Poor mobility has been giving light armor healers fits all along. But if you're not any good at moving/ casting/ changing targets at the same time ~ it's still probably the best choice for you to play. But only because the class itself lacks mobility. If you do choose to play a light armor healer, you better expect that you're going to spend a lot of time running around like a ninny while casting almost no heals. And you're going to be doing it in a skirt. You only get your dignity back when you land your first AoE on 5+ players.

The point of my post was to illustrate that being a light armor healer isn't necessarily the land of milk and honey. playing the class, and playing past 50 you gradually learn to deal with all of those problems.

I understand your intention, and for the most part I agree with all your points; it was just a couple that I wasn't so convinced on.

Think back to the days before you had your AoE. Back before raid night. The earliest you can spec into it is LvL 40. Life was a lot different back then. 3 second deliverance casts? Letting more than 2 health bars get low at a time, was a recipe for letting someone wipe. Post lvl 50, before you get geared up, and when your grouping with undergeared players. You're going to lose teammates because big heals didn't land quite fast enough, and the AoE didn't heal quite enough.

I never had much of a problem healing flashpoints and heroics during 1-49, but on the other hand, that was pre 1.2, where I had fast-casting Deliverance and double-dipping to abuse, so I'll concede this point.

Your statement is true. The YMMV component is also true. But the Aoe is more difficult to land for full effect, because it ticks longer. Yes it is the king of AoE heals for Ops - but for 4 man content?

I utilize Salvation very frequently in 4-man groups. It's a great efficiency heal in many situations, and with cooldowns I've brought a group back from the edge of a wipe numerous times.

Again- you're not thinking about what life was like before raiding. Before your groups were full of experienced, well geared, players who did their jobs right. And before you lost count of how many times you'd seen a specific piece of content.

I definitely maintain my disagreement here. I cancel my casts more in endgame content than I ever did levelling, but even then it's certainly not frequent.

I thought hyperbole was what forums were all about.

Touche

1) Esselles - in HM Vokk ignores threat mechanics to target stationary players with his saber throw - 2 shots

And this preys on us how? No one has to move. If you were smart you pre-bubbled the party, so no one's health bar went anywhere, at which point you now know the mechanic and you'll just refresh bubbles.

3) T5 - large droids indoors pull randomly without a threat mechanic - seers do no healing until after speeding away.

I always make my party (myself included) stack on the droid so I can just heal through. It's been a long time since I did it in normal mode, but I remember that the damage output was pretty negligible.

4) Maelstrom Prison - Kilran - the slow effect almost completely shuts down seer healing - In HM he 2 shots

I'm not really sure how it specifically shuts down Seer healing. It's true we don't have a plethora of speedy options for casting, and LOS can be an issue, but people shouldn't get shot either, and for most of the other classes their big heals aren't that much faster. Force Armor is instant and powerful, at that.

 

After he teleports for a second time, I just drop a Salvation in front of the party, and that tops everyone up on account of how slowly they're forced to walk through it You don't even need to learn the fight to recognise that opportunity.

7) D7- final boss

You have to move around a fair bit to deal with mechanics, i'll grant you that, but you still get plenty of opportunities to turret heal. If you don't CC the claw I guess issues could arise.

8) Kaon- the Big Red Rak that you probably better kite / final fight - the champ melee mob that gives chase & then stuns

Force speed ahead. Heal at leisure. Turret heal near explosive barrels. Yawn. The final fight, well... heavy armour doesn't make you immune to stuns, you know I guess Scoundrels might be better off, but the damage in this fight is so insignificant that even if the healer gets stunned for the full duration possible, it really doesn't matter.

Move>cast>move>cast is how a lot of people play the seer class. All of the solo content will let you do that. It's not optimal, but it works. Right up until they do some group content, where it doesn't.

That's just... not my experience. If you use your brain when it comes to positioning, you get plenty of free casting time in PVE. For more difficult encounters, all classes have to learn the fights. It's not like Commandos are just a mountain of untouchable invincibility that can just plant themselves and ignore every mechanic while healing.

 

And when you refer to the other healers having more options on the move, you should really just specify Scoundrels. Commandos aren't all that mobile when it comes down to it.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Aurojiin

That's just... not my experience. If you use your brain when it comes to positioning, you get plenty of free casting time in PVE. For more difficult encounters, all classes have to learn the fights. It's not like Commandos are just a mountain of untouchable invincibility that can just plant themselves and ignore every mechanic while healing.

 

And when you refer to the other healers having more options on the move, you should really just specify Scoundrels. Commandos aren't all that mobile when it comes down to it.

 

actually for the first part yes we can mostly ignore 65% of the mechanics that force others to move if the aoes are not insta kills since the heavy armor and easy to heal ourselves. secondly we are just as mobile as, or a bit less than, scoundrels. hammer shot, kolto bomb is intsant, and bacta infusion So were WAY more mobile than a sage we have 3 insta heals a small hot from adv probe which beats the measly one insta heal from sage.

Edited June 12, 2012 by rjavig

actually for the first part yes we can mostly ignore 65% of the mechanics that force others to move if the aoes are not insta kills since the heavy armor and easy to heal ourselves

Yeah... no.

 

1. Yes, you can take more punishment than a light armour healer. But your mitigation isn't that much better. Neither of us have a shield, nor do we stack defense. If either of us pulls a trash mob in Denova, we're both going down. You might live a quarter of a second longer.

 

2. If you're standing in avoidable AOE mechanics, that's just stupid. The only time this would ever be justified is when you're casting a heal (or have to start casting a heal) that will be the difference between life and death for the target. Otherwise, you're creating unnecessary risk and wasting your own resources for nothing. I think most ops groups would rather take the sage/sorc that gets out of stuff than the commando that stands in the fire because he can.

 

which beats the measly one insta heal from sage.

While Sages are the least mobile healers, we do have two instants, for the record.

 

Plus when we have to move, we can do it a lot faster than you slowpokes

Edited June 13, 2012 by Aurojiin

Right off the top of my head:

1) Esselles - in HM Vokk ignores threat mechanics to target stationary players with his saber throw - 2 shots

2) Hammer station, final boss cone shaped AoE - fires in the drection of stationary players, even if the tank turns him

3) T5 - large droids indoors pull randomly without a threat mechanic - seers do no healing until after speeding away.

4) Maelstrom Prison - Kilran - the slow effect almost completely shuts down seer healing - In HM he 2 shots

5) Mandalorian raiders - final boss

6) Cadimemu - final boss

7) D7- final boss

8) Kaon- the Big Red Rak that you probably better kite / final fight - the champ melee mob that gives chase & then stuns

 

We can heal all that stuff just fine, after we figure out how to stay alive. After we figure out where we need to be, when to be there, and how to know. If you do that content on level, or try the HM with undergeared players, there are problems with those specific battles that the more mobile healers don't have. A large portion of the "boss" fights have some mobility impairing effect, a choke point where AoEs land, a highly mobile boss that instantly pulls the tank out of healing range, or a mechanic that ignores threat to attack stationary players. Another large group of fights dishes out massive burst DPS that puts the screw to the heavy armor healers. Many fights belong to both groups. And some are just filler. It's sort of blatant, that this was a design goal for the devs.

 

Move>cast>move>cast is how a lot of people play the seer class. All of the solo content will let you do that. It's not optimal, but it works. Right up until they do some group content, where it doesn't.

 

Poor mobility has been giving light armor healers fits all along. But if you're not any good at moving/ casting/ changing targets at the same time ~ it's still probably the best choice for you to play. But only because the class itself lacks mobility. If you do choose to play a light armor healer, you better expect that you're going to spend a lot of time running around like a ninny while casting almost no heals. And you're going to be doing it in a skirt. You only get your dignity back when you land your first AoE on 5+ players.

 

Oh come on, any healer can sleep-heal through flashpoints other than lost island. Normals and hardmodes alike. Just because strategies may be slightly different doesn't mean it's hard. Sages and sorcs are awesome healers in any pve content and none of the fights you mentioned are harder with a sorc than they are other healers.

 

And why even bring lower than 50 and solo play into the conversation? You don't even need to be a pure healing spec for that stuff and be able to do it fine as a healer.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Mordeguy

Why?

Because Operatives have WAY better burst healing.

 

In general for an 8 man I'd suggest 1 Operative Healer and 1 Sorc healer (and their pub counterparts).

Put the Operatives on the two tanks, and put the Sorc on himself, and the DPS. The Sorc's Revivification can heal 8 people, but the Operatives AoE heal only heals 4. The Operative can focus on the Tanks while the Sorc heals everyone else and will also heal the Tanks some of the time.

Just wanna throw in my two cents here. Sorcs/Sages are really good at the moment, bu they might be nerfed in 1.3 and mercs may be best. Play what feels right o you man, i enjoy my merc and I have zero issues in healing pvp or pve. I might just be that rare merc that knows how to play my class, or people over exaggerated things

Oh come on, any healer can sleep-heal through flashpoints other than lost island. Normals and hardmodes alike. Just because strategies may be slightly different doesn't mean it's hard. Sages and sorcs are awesome healers in any pve content and none of the fights you mentioned are harder with a sorc than they are other healers.

 

And why even bring lower than 50 and solo play into the conversation? You don't even need to be a pure healing spec for that stuff and be able to do it fine as a healer.

 

Did you not read the OP? Leveling is sort of relevent to a character that hasn't been created yet. And considering that it's 99% of the game content, it might be worth taking into consideration.

 

I love how people keep going back to endgame in this discussion, and going- oh everything below that is Soooo easy. It's killing me. How is a player supposed to be a compentent healer- if they have never even played the class before?

 

The differences in strategy required, are the differences between the classes.

 

The point of my posts were to try and describe as completely as possible how the class plays from 1 to 50.

If that play style isn't what you would enjoy- you shouldn't play a sage/sorc. I'm sure the OP already made there decision a long, long time ago - but a different new player might read this thread.

Why?

Because Operatives have WAY better burst healing.

 

In general for an 8 man I'd suggest 1 Operative Healer and 1 Sorc healer (and their pub counterparts).

Put the Operatives on the two tanks, and put the Sorc on himself, and the DPS. The Sorc's Revivification can heal 8 people, but the Operatives AoE heal only heals 4. The Operative can focus on the Tanks while the Sorc heals everyone else and will also heal the Tanks some of the time.

 

lol very funny you clearly dont know what a good burst heal is. scoundrels/ops are not good burst healers and thats a fact there good sustained healers. tell me can you heal 13k in 2.8 seconds? i think not.

Edited June 14, 2012 by rjavig

lol very funny you clearly dont know what a good burst heal is. scoundrels/ops are not good burst healers and thats a fact there good sustained healers. tell me can you heal 13k in 2.8 seconds? i think not.

 

If that's the case then as a sorc healer I'm always better than an Op healer? Awesome.

lol very funny you clearly dont know what a good burst heal is. scoundrels/ops are not good burst healers and thats a fact there good sustained healers. tell me can you heal 13k in 2.8 seconds? i think not.

 

Yes.

 

Infuse, infuse, surgical probe and a hot tick will hit within 3 seconds ( easily 2.8s with any amount of alacrity) and do over 13k

Edited June 14, 2012 by CaptainApop

lol very funny you clearly dont know what a good burst heal is. scoundrels/ops are not good burst healers and thats a fact there good sustained healers. tell me can you heal 13k in 2.8 seconds? i think not.

 

I just addressed this in the other thread where you said the same, so I'll give a shorter response here.

 

The rotation you describe for that 13k in 2.8 isn't burst healing. All of those abilities are part of your core rotation, and BI has a 21s cooldown and is not available on demand as it should, generally, always be on CD. Those 3 (AP/MP/BI) will align on occasion leading to a spike in HPS compared to when BI falls between HS casts, but that is a spike, not a burst.

 

Burst means the ability to change what you do for higher HPS, traditionally at the cost of unsustainable resource consumption. Commandos used to have this with the pre-nerf SCC and Field Triage, but it is gone now. For an example of what burst is, look at the option of an Operative replacing Surgical Probe (weak but only costs 1 TA stack and no energy) with Kolto Infusion (higher HPS, but costs 1 TA + 20 Energy). Their HPS will increase, but they will burn energy very fast, so fast that some Operatives still consider KInf useless even with the post-1.2 extra TA stack and the set bonus for extra crit.

Their HPS will increase, but they will burn energy very fast, so fast that some Operatives still consider KInf useless even with the post-1.2 extra TA stack and the set bonus for extra crit.

 

One caveat is that most operatives (myself included) find a pvp 15% bonus to our aoe heal superior to 15% to our kolto infusion ( assuming roughly 100% surge with talents). Might be beaten as surge gets higher and people get tired of wearing battlemaster gloves/boots/etc. Time will tell.

 

Kolto infusion is a decent ( not good and not fantastic) "sustained" hps increase when used with adrenaline probe (2 min cd). This is the only place alot of people seem to think it's worthwhile.

However if we were going to talk 3-second-window-burst infusion is definately short term hps increase as a trade-off for long-term hps. It requires TA's though which people seem allergic to using on anything other than surgical probe.

 

The trick is to not simply replace surg probe with kolto infusion, you need to swap the order too. Infuse then inject. It doesn't seem like it'd be a big deal but giving yourself and extra 0.5 seconds between casting costs usually prevents you from dipping past 60 energy (or the next level if the burst came out of left field)

Worth noting is that this fits neatly into the op "rotation" and can done roughly everytime you proc a TA. It will hamper your overall healing though as you'll need to sneak in a diagnostic scan or shiv-surgical probes to recoup the energy.

 

Anyway, just thought I'd elaborate on the operative pov.

Edited June 14, 2012 by CaptainApop

Yeah, I've never said that Operatives have good burst, it was just an example of swapping out a rotation change to produce higher HPS that wasn't sustainable. The actual design (cost/power/cast time) of KInf was a burst ability is bad enough that it was a core complaint of pre-1.2, and we expected them to improve Sc/Op to actually give them decent burst in 1.2. Instead they nerfed the burst of the other two. So now we are in a post-1.2 world of trying to discuss burst where two classes have had their burst ability severely nerfed, and the only remaining burst option was bad to begin with.

I was mostly trying to endorse using kolto infusion without sounding like I thought it was by any stretch of the imagination a fun and compelling ability. It ended up sounding rather strange.

It's a crap ability but it's our only bursting tool :L ( it has a cool animation though, that's something)

Edited June 14, 2012 by CaptainApop

Well, one really good reason is because this is an MMO, so things change. Class balance changes. Balance is never completely achieved short of making all classes pretty well clones of each other, but who has the upper hand and in what way will vary from time to time.

 

If you banked everything on the Sorc/Sage Healers, when the nerf eventually does come down, it'll probably be harder than what is needed, or a buff will hit one of the other roles with an unforeseen benefit, and then suddenly everything will be skewed the direction of the Scoundrel. Or Commando. And then back to Sage again. It will constantly change.

 

You are 100% right about the Sage at the moment. But they call it flavor of the month for a reason. Give it a while and it's time in the sun will pass. I recommend playing the style of healing you prefer (AoE vs Burst Healing vs PvP, etc). Find the class that plays the smoothest for you, and then build your gear. Sometimes you will get to shine, and sometimes you will be the less-effective, but building up a single healer is much better than trying to start from scratch and swap to the new hotness after each patch makes changes.

Yes.

 

Infuse, infuse, surgical probe and a hot tick will hit within 3 seconds ( easily 2.8s with any amount of alacrity) and do over 13k

 

By doing this you would need to have 3 tactical advantages to pull it off plus have your hot before this fight also you would be at 60 energy just from one go at it. If you only had one or two ta's you would not be able to even pull it off so this type of "burst" healing is not really good since you wouldn't even be able to do it more than one rotation of it and you would only be able to pull it off twice if it was allowed.

By doing this you would need to have 3 tactical advantages to pull it off plus have your hot before this fight also you would be at 60 energy just from one go at it. If you only had one or two ta's you would not be able to even pull it off so this type of "burst" healing is not really good since you wouldn't even be able to do it more than one rotation of it and you would only be able to pull it off twice if it was allowed.

 

1. TA's are not in short supply. Shiv, my proc and Kolto injection ensure I usually have 2 with my proc taking me to three ( every 6/7s). 3 TA's is not uncommon.

 

2. A target in need of 13k healing within the next 2.8s has likely dropped below 30% hp ( if they haven't they likely aren't in such immediate danger). I can reverse the order surg -> Kinf -> Kinf and do the same thing with two TA's. Admittedly slightly slower but also front-loads the heal to the start of the GCD.

 

3. This costs me 36 energy net. Followed by a two second cast ( injection ) I can get right back into my regular healing neutral rota if I started around 100 ( not unlikely). If I didn't one diag scan will put me in the same position.

 

4. Not being able to "pull it off twice" is a moot point. Neither can you since BI is a 21 second cooldown. Not mention RuQu who you've decided to ignore has already pointed out yours is a situational three button combo that you can't call upon to happen when oyu need it.

Edited June 15, 2012 by CaptainApop

1. TA's are not in short supply. Shiv, my proc and Kolto injection ensure I usually have 2 with my proc taking me to three ( every 6/7s). 3 TA's is not uncommon.

 

2. A target in need of 13k healing within the next 2.8s has likely dropped below 30% hp ( if they haven't they likely aren't in such immediate danger). I can reverse the order surg -> Kinf -> Kinf and do the same thing with two TA's. Admittedly slightly slower but also front-loads the heal to the start of the GCD.

 

3. This costs me 36 energy net. Followed by a two second cast ( injection ) I can get right back into my regular healing neutral rota if I started around 100 ( not unlikely). If I didn't one diag scan will put me in the same position.

 

4. Not being able to "pull it off twice" is a moot point. Neither can you since BI is a 21 second cooldown. Not mention RuQu who you've decided to ignore has already pointed out yours is a situational three button combo that you can't call upon to happen when oyu need it.

 

1. Im sure ta does not stack to 3 in 6/7 seconds since its proc is not so reliable. Unless you have a lot of time were you do not have to really heal which is only if your over geared for the run.

 

2. tanks have over 22k sometimes they might be just at 32% hp which is above that 30% were they will need heals so they are still in immediate danger. It alsmo "might not be unlikely but its very "Rare" to even happen so you would still be low energy after thats why its not considered a good burst heal.

 

3.injection dont you mean diagnostic scan? the channel that restores 2 energy per crit only. If your talking about kolto injection im sure thats the one that uses energy not gives back.

 

4. thats a spike heal, like Ruqu said, our burst heal usually comes from super charge cell were we can pull off more than just one adv. probe/med probe combo plus use kolto bomb for damage reduction. Yes it got nerfed but is much more heals during those 15 seconds of scc thanks to no cd on adv. probe.

Before this devolves into a pointless he said/she said debate I'm going to remind you how it started. Since this is going to go miles off track into the sunset otherwise.

 

Someone claimed operatives have better burst than sorcerors. Which they do, by nature. Operatives cast a 1-2 punch while sorcs cast a long drawling cast supplemented largely by an aoe and bubbles. Gross simplification but there you go.

You then jumped down from your podium and beat your chest over how you could do 13k in a 2.8s burst ( 4.3s seconds actually, you'll be idling for a GCD after your instant). This however is the bacta infusion reliant combo as evidenced by the thread RuQu linked and the exact numbers you mentioned in both posts, which has already been debunked as "burst" via SCIENCE

You then challenged the forum to point out where an operative could do similar.

So I did.

You can not believe me when I say it doesn't cause a downtime when done right, that the proc is not nearly as unreliable as you seem to think it is or that a three stack of TA is as common as muck, or even that 3TA's will occur a hell of a lot more frequently than you get supercharged. Doesn't change a whole lot.

 

The point is rather moot though. I can use my extra TA to burst if I have to. I'll probably use it to double probe instead. To keep my energy high so I can Kinf->Kinj->Kinf when needed, because if the tank is above 30% the difference between topping him up in 4.3s (factoring in the GCD from your instant) and doing so in 5s is completely negligible. Or better yet use that same extra energy to pop RN on cd, put out more overall healing than you do post-nerfs and remove the need to burst beyond my normal rotation.

 

On an extra note I fail to understand your calling operatives "sustained healers". It doesn't make any sense as a concept. Troopers heal forever played neutrally, operatives heal forever played neutrally. You can't not play neutrally because of spiraling regen. Both are "sustained healers". Whatever on earth that means.

Edited June 16, 2012 by CaptainApop

Before this devolves into a pointless he said/she said debate I'm going to remind you how it started. Since this is going to go miles off track into the sunset otherwise.

 

Someone claimed operatives have better burst than sorcerors. Which they do, by nature. Operatives cast a 1-2 punch while sorcs cast a long drawling cast supplemented largely by an aoe and bubbles. Gross simplification but there you go.

You then jumped down from your podium and beat your chest over how you could do 13k in a 2.8s burst ( 4.3s seconds actually, you'll be idling for a GCD after your instant). This however is the bacta infusion reliant combo as evidenced by the thread RuQu linked and the exact numbers you mentioned in both posts, which has already been debunked as "burst" via SCIENCE

You then challenged the forum to point out where an operative could do similar.

So I did.

You can not believe me when I say it doesn't cause a downtime when done right, that the proc is not nearly as unreliable as you seem to think it is or that a three stack of TA is as common as muck, or even that 3TA's will occur a hell of a lot more frequently than you get supercharged. Doesn't change a whole lot.

 

The point is rather moot though. I can use my extra TA to burst if I have to. I'll probably use it to double probe instead. To keep my energy high so I can Kinf->Kinj->Kinf when needed, because if the tank is above 30% the difference between topping him up in 4.3s (factoring in the GCD from your instant) and doing so in 5s is completely negligible. Or better yet use that same extra energy to pop RN on cd, put out more overall healing than you do post-nerfs and remove the need to burst beyond my normal rotation.

 

On an extra note I fail to understand your calling operatives "sustained healers". It doesn't make any sense as a concept. Troopers heal forever played neutrally, operatives heal forever played neutrally. You can't not play neutrally because of spiraling regen. Both are "sustained healers". Whatever on earth that means.

 

You stated that you need a scoundrel for burst which a scoundrel is not a "burst healer" also im not the only one who stated that yes better then sage but not a "burst" healer. I stated that if you want burst heals/spike heals you'd go commando. Secondly you would not get enough kinf to do good burst heals. At max youd pull of 3 one after another each is a huge chunk of energy and cost ta in that instant, you'd not pull a ta or proc one, if you do your lucky. Also 4.3 seconds? were are you getting that? no its 2.8. 1.2 on adv. probe, med probe 1.6 then bacta infusion. i play a commando healer i know how long my cast are. also mt instant heal doesn't make it 4.3 its after adv. probe and med probe. yes using probe is good but doesnt heal as "burst" not high enough heals to consider it. If it crits 6k then Im wrong but as I see it scound/ops

 

I also forgot to mention just because the tank is not under 30% does not mean there not in danger. like i stated they can be at 50% or even 60% and a boss does huge damage in hm or nim. for example bonecrusher, droid in kp, zorn and toth, and many other bosses so that is invalid point. I also mean sustained as in your heals as your hots and scan get energy back not like commandos who do not get energy from hammer shot.

though those heals are not sufficient for spike damages, but yes back to the debate on hand. Sorc get out burst healed by ops/scounds, and definitely by commando/mercs. If you want burst heal go commando/merc with a sorc/sage or good single heals also go scound/op.

Edited June 16, 2012 by rjavig

I really think I've said just about all I can be bothered saying at this point. It's pretty clear you're only seeing what you want to see and I honestly can't be bothered spending 10 minutes deciphering what you've actually typed only to be forced to repeat myself. That or I'm completely off the mark with what your actually saying. In either case there's not much point in me going on.

 

- At no point in this entire thread or anywhere on this forum have I stated an op group needs an operative for burst. Nowhere. Lying isn't a great way to conduct yourself.

 

- If you'd actually read my post I explain where I get 4.3s from. A clue : You push an instant, healing happens and a 1.5s GCD is triggered. During this GCD you don't do any healing. So if you're going to bring in any event past the 2.8s mark then the 1.5s of idling needs to be factored in.

 

-You asked for a 2.8s window burst heal for 13k+, I gave it to you. You then decided to shift the goalposts and take my post out of context. If more than that healing is required in the immediate future then the ability choice would change. I can't spam Kinf anymore than you can spam advanced medical probe, cd or no.

 

I'm done here.

Edited June 16, 2012 by CaptainApop

I've recently gotten into healing, playing My Merc and I love every second of shooting people and exploding missiles for healing. But looking into the other healing classes I honestly have to ask, why bother playing anything but a Sorc/Sage for healing?

 

This is a serious question I have too, because my friend is a Sorc healer and main heals our raids. He's able to have a good deal of force management that he almost never runs out of force in a fight (he once even nearly solo healed a 7 man ops group through Bonethrasher, we got him to around 30-40% before his force finally went out). His aoe is simply amazing and both the other healing classes can't even compete in the slightest. We did EV normal the other night for the first time with just 2 Merc healers, and usually we group up and keep DPSing during missile salvo while the Sorc's drop aoes down. This time we changed it up so melee grouped on tank (me) for 1 aoe heal, while ranged group on healers for the second Merc's aoe heal and the difference between aoes was super apparent.

 

The aoe heal is pretty useful since a lot of times if tons of damage goes out he tosses it down and we group up, other times since we run with a lot of melee he drops it down on the boss and the tank and melee can all keep up because of it.

 

Aoe aside their damage mitigation skill, force shield, seems tons better than my kolto shell. I'm only about to hit 40 so my numbers aren't indicative of raid level healing so a 50 Merc can correct me, but right now it seems like my kolto shell can only heal about 2-3k on whoever I drop it on, in addition I can only hit 1 person with it, and they only get healing when they are hit, so it's just a minor offset to the damage they are taking. By comparison the Sorc can drop their shield on everyone before a fight, and toss out shields as needed. Now again I'm unsure of the numbers but I've heard a shield can absorb about 5-10k damage (seems like people are a bit unsure still how much it can absorb, but it seems to still be more than kolto shell). Operatives seem to have it worse in this category since they only have their heal over time they have to drop 2 charges on to make effective (so it becomes less viable for multiple people if there's tons of aoe damage flying around).

 

Of course this is just a lot of theory crafting in my head with how abilities work, but the bottom line does seem to be Sorc/Sage's get a good deal better abilities. And I know again that BW and tons of people exclaim how they do the content all the time with no Sorc/Sage's and how it can be cleared, but that's not the issue ultimately, the issue simply is, if 1 healer far outshines all others, then why bother with anything else?

 

Anyways I'm certain many others with a bit more experience in healing can maybe correct some issues or give me alternate views to contemplate. So have at it.

 

I have levelled a commando to 50, and have run 1 ops with her EV HM (I am a dude BTW), and numerous WZ and she can heal like a boss. I kind of side with BW on this argument because inspite what an AOE can do in a tight spot, you really can make up for it with skill and rotation.

 

I am not going to tell you which class is the best, because we all know it really depends on your skill, and gear. I personally have such good aclarity on my casts, and critical hits, my ammo hardly gets below 50%. Once you practice dotting, you don't need an AOE heal, because you become an AOE heal yourself.

 

What makes a trooper difficult to heal with is that it takes a lot of mental stamina. I do have a level 50 sage and I found them quit easy to heal with. All you have to do is cast your AOE and and keep people topped off.

 

A trooper needs to rotate, dot, rotate, dot and do this on the fly. If you can master this process, you will be healing like a boss yourself.

 

Here is how I look at it. The Sage is a fancy flashy healer, and everyone will give him all the credit, but deep down you know the truth, because you were there doing it. You know it was you that helped your friends stay alive, and it was you that made your sage counterpart look really good.

 

No one will ever know because you don't have a fancy AOE that shouts, I am a healer. Nope you will aim your cannon and fire, fire, fire, cast, cast, rotate, cast, fire, shield, dot, fire, fire fire, cast, rotate, fire,... you get the point.

 

Stick it out it gets better for you, I promise.

1) Why anything but sorc? Because you enjoy a different playstyle and unless you are competing for world/server firsts, all three healers do just fine.

2) Bountyhunter healing is broken as I have explained in detail here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=481231

Because of pride and reading false information over and over making it true, many BHs will continue to thump their chests in spite of math. Having played both a BH and Op in HM raids, I can give you my $0.02: The burst is not SIGNIFICANTLY better on a BH and can be done more frequently on an OP. HOWEVER...

3) The whole topic of burst healing is absurd. A Sorc, who has the worst burst in most people's opinion, can heal a tank through any burst mechanic that exists in PvE content when geared appropriately. Therefore, which healer bursts more is an inane discussion as it is completely irrelevant.

4) Its your $15/mo. Play what makes you happy and let others play what makes them happy.