It seems people are under the notion that operatives are godly warriors that dominate everyone in every direction from across the map. Rifle shot and Frag Grenade are even brought into question. Low yield dmg with no chance of burst are far to strong for operatives right? I mean they only lost hidden strike, explosive probe, orbital strike, crouch, snipe....im sure more but at this point my point is made. *Will mainly discuss conceal operative*

 

Not that I am saying operatives are useless, but in any form of pvp they essential are.

 

People have this notion of "Operatives are so good in 1 v 1." Yeah...that's nice, except pvp in any level is not 1 v 1.

 

"But they can kill the guard at the node and win every time." Well sorry to let you down but operatives do not have that capability to kill you and cap your node in a TEAM based game. If you call out for help quickly then help should arrive long before you die, ops can't win a 1 v 2. "Yes they can!" Then you are bad.

 

Operatives have unlimited CC, probably the most cc in the game. False. Operatives cc is limited to 1 hard stun in melee range. Two soft stuns, that if you fall to these and lose the node it means you have failed as a guard and the operative has succeeded. Don't waste your cc breaker, and don't stand on top of the objective like a bumbling baboon. (Talking about cc in regards to excuses of losing a node...if you lose a node to a root...not even the force can save you.)

 

Crippling slice is more or less the sins version of low slash. You may not be able to face the operative but it doesn't limit you from casting abilities, and it's melee range so it's not like it's being flung across the map at you. Though to be fair, I'd prefer crippling slice over low slash, but low slash I feel has more control over the field preventing objectives and such. I recall dozens of instances where I lowslash ball carriers in a fire or acid.

 

Sins are by far and large superior in every way shape and form in team play. They can tank, they have stronger defensive cooldowns than operatives, way stronger.

 

NO!!! STOP...YOU LIE! OPS CAN ROLL!!!! OMG right????? Yah fk ops...sins have nothing.

 

Nope. Roll is a stopgap from death, you cannot do anything while you roll. A sin can force speed and use abilities. The moment you roll you can no longer cast abilities, stop a cap, heal, or anything else. It may be strong in the sense of survivability but an op rolling around nonstop is just spending half the match not doing any dmg. That is the difference between an OPs dcd to survive, and everyone elses dcd that allows them to continue to dmg or heal.

I am not underselling roll at all, it's amazing. (Until you get the roll bug of course). You can last longer, hold points, call for help, close gap and so on. Yet the limitation is severe.

 

I play every class and am aware what its like to face operative on each class as well as be an operative facing each class. In a 1 v 1 I feel pretty confident. The moment another player shows up that confidence leaves the door unless they are way below my skill level then it's just a matter of time before I get two solos. People don't realize that operatives are pretty much dead when they get rooted. They are still melee, and they still have cooldowns like the rest of us.

 

I can't even name how many times I've seen people empty their highest burst into my two rolls. Like I get it, you heatseekered right as a roll...but why are you using your entire unload...was that a railshot I saw? *sigh*

 

Even still ops are just melee class....range just have to kite as best they can, roots and slows...between rolls the op will be crawling.

 

I am not trying to undersell this class, I am just trying to point out the weaknesses that people seem oblivious to.

 

The reflect on Evasion...well just don't shoot it. That's what everyone says to every other ability. =)

 

Honestly all these reflects/h2f/cc immunities have gotten out of control, but such as life with EAware at the helm.

 

Shield probe...i'll trade it for 1/2 a static barrier if anyone thinks its op.

 

To sum it up. Operatives do not do well in team fights. They will easily get rooted, focused down and die and won't be able to add much to the fight with limited melee single target and mediocre range. (Though for a melee classes having range is nice, but it's not game breaking). They can't taunt, they can't guard, their off heals are a joke (Sure lethality has instant cast heal on roll..) their heal spec is pretty mediocre as well.

 

Granted most people aren't as coordinated, such is pvp that an op can usually make its impact in team based games....but tbh they are essentially useless if focused with little utility save evasion and escape combat or roll (basically all abilities to run away as their dcds don't allow them to stick around and fight).

 

I have yet to ever go "Ugh we are facing an operative" when I que up for a warzone...never. I cannot even recall an instance where I ever thought that. Honestly not even in 1.0, roots are operatives enemy.

 

Anyways it's late at night, and I am sure my thoughts are jumbled, so hope this was clear enough.

 

"Don't fear operatives, fear the bad players on your team." ~ Me

Edited May 13, 2017 by VixenRawR

#nerfoperatives.. lol

Operatives are okay. They're kinda jack of all trades, bringing extremely useful utility into the fight (off-heals, cc, stealth, roll) and capable of delivering a painful burst. If there's someone I'm always happy to see on my team, it's a good Operative who knows their $hit.

Now need few more threads about poor operative healers, and we might get buff:p Edited May 13, 2017 by GUN_GAME

Yeah, we need to put Mercs and Snipers on the backburner for now and deal with the really OP class. Operatives.

 

Once Operatives get nerfed things will be better, and the class balance will be perfect.

 

If Operatives don't get nerfed, Mercs and Snipers are going to need a buff to bring them on par with Operatives.

At least 3 more H2F's for merc, and a few more DCDs for Snipers. [Plasma probe should just be able to be placed on a enemy target and follows them around no matter where they go and never ends until the match is over].

 

Come to think of it, we might need to nerf Sorcs and PTs too....

Edited May 13, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

I applaud this post. The amount of truth here, bravo.

I applaud this post. The amount of truth here, bravo.

 

Yup, well put, OP. I was literally, out-loud LOLing at another thread where this guy was whining about how he can't kill concealment operatives with his Merc. Like, OMG lol.

 

Then again, looking at the state of merc skill in WZs these days - I believe him, he probably can't kill an operative with his merc.

Yup, well put, OP. I was literally, out-loud LOLing at another thread where this guy was whining about how he can't kill concealment operatives with his Merc. Like, OMG lol.

 

Then again, looking at the state of merc skill in WZs these days - I believe him, he probably can't kill an operative with his merc.

 

Eh, aside from a Sniper.. Concealment Ops probably have the best chances to defeat a Merc on their own.

Then Marauder, then Sin. I think.

Really? I'd have probably said Sniper, Merc, Mara, Sin, then Op. Ops just don't have the burst and Ops can't roll while netted, can they? I'd think a decent merc would just net, jet, and heatseeker/stream an op down. Maras and Sins might survive that long enough - harder for an op.

Really? I'd have probably said Sniper, Merc, Mara, Sin, then Op. Ops just don't have the burst and Ops can't roll while netted, can they? I'd think a decent merc would just net, jet, and heatseeker/stream an op down. Maras and Sins might survive that long enough - harder for an op.

 

Net is your only real problem though. I'd probably break it if I were you.

But if the Merc has a tendency to also stun you at the same time as net, wait for that

Net is your only real problem though. I'd probably break it if I were you.

But if the Merc has a tendency to also stun you at the same time as net, wait for that

 

Don't forget that range on Electro-dart too; the smarter merc would jet, stun or net, wait for the break, then do the other.

Don't forget that range on Electro-dart too; the smarter merc would jet, stun or net, wait for the break, then do the other.

 

You shouldn't break anything other than net though.

You shouldn't break anything other than net though.

 

For sure.

You shouldn't break anything other than net though.

 

What do you do if 10 seconds after you broke a merc's Net one of his many clones comes along and nets you all over again?

 

Screwed City. Vasoline is advised.

Then it's no longer a 1v1 and none of this applies.

From best to worst DPS:

 

Arsenal Merc

Engineering Sniper (if you are good)

Deception Assassin

Fury / Carnage Marauder

Sniper (if you are mediocre, primarily engineering)

Concealment Operative

Vengeance / Rage Juggernaut

Sorcerer

EricMusco

AP-PT

 

Operatives are good for node stealing against bad to mediocre guards, and of course node guarding. Anything else can (more or less) be done better with any other class.

Really? I'd have probably said Sniper, Merc, Mara, Sin, then Op. Ops just don't have the burst and Ops can't roll while netted, can they? I'd think a decent merc would just net, jet, and heatseeker/stream an op down. Maras and Sins might survive that long enough - harder for an op.

 

OPs have a lot better sustained burst imo than most classes. The huge problem with that though is they are a melee class so while they can consistently put out decent numbers on a training dummy, it is a lot harder to do so against a kitting merc or a rooting sniper. Though I almost never have much of an issue against a sniper on on my op unless there are other people involved then its game over. People seem to forget cleanse on op clears sniper roots as well as many utility. Snipers depend on a lot of cast or predictable burst that can be rolled through. Mercs are similar in nature as well. If in a 1 v 1 I can't tell you how many times a merc goes "Omg the op is getting away" *nets* yeah...by getting away I am rolling...thanks for wasting a net. =) A lot of times you can roll through heatseeker which takes away a huge crunch on their damage.

 

I still love overload shot knockback utility. People diss it, but I constantly interrupt the channels on mercs, the casts on snipers as they aren't always in entrench and sometimes in the process of chasing me they get up to walk and then cast thinking that they are safe. I now have 30m overload shot...not to mention there is always in instance in every warzone where a kill that would have gotten away was killed because of my overload shot...it can hit like 15k dmg which isn't bad. Plus how often the utility is up with roll, 2 knockbacks every 10 seconds. I have effectively prevented healers from ever casting between that and interrupt and other cc. It does not build white bar much at all.

 

Sure maybe in a arena, or maybe even in a planned 1 v 1 session where the distraction of a warzone don't exist it may not be has relevant. Yet even in a 1 v 1 in a warzone the person has to think about the node, and may make mistakes trying to chase or kill you as they worry about you healing up and coming back or just other problems. 1 v 1 in warzone still comes with risk of potential threats.

 

I knock sooooo many people off edges like oddesson proving grounds and voidstar, huttball, and even arenas. So many times I knock someone off an edge in arena and gank them below while their team is up above on ramps or bridges fighting...1 v 1 an op is almost certain to win. Especially when you pick the easy target. >

 

I think people underestimate that utility.

 

People underestimated snipers for so long. Engineering snipers aren't new, their ability and utility has been around a long time. Plasma probe has always been annoying, though the radius is bigger the duration isn't 18 seconds. I remember in voidstar seeing it on the door and the sniper was gone and I had to wait the whole duration. Ugh haha. I remember seeing ENG sniper in 1.x easily breaking over half a mil dmg...which is a lot back then considering a good day was 350k dmg. (What's really sad, is 40% of the population still has trouble breaking those numbers, when a massive crit back then was 5k, and now its 40k+...)

 

Heals, and class stacking are essentially the problem in pvp. The game isn't meant to balance class stack, but rather the variety of classes. You'd think the predictability of fighting the same classes would help, but instead their abilities that make them unique suddenly flare up as it is essentially spammable. A sorc trying to escape 3 nets is retarded. Yet net isn't the issue...it's class stacking.

Edited May 13, 2017 by VixenRawR

From best to worst DPS:

 

Arsenal Merc

Engineering Sniper (if you are good)

Deception Assassin

Fury / Carnage Marauder

Sniper (if you are mediocre, primarily engineering)

Concealment Operative

Vengeance / Rage Juggernaut

Sorcerer

EricMusco

AP-PT

 

Operatives are good for node stealing against bad to mediocre guards, and of course node guarding. Anything else can (more or less) be done better with any other class.

 

LMAO 😂😂😂 EricMusco