Inclusiveness. It's really that simple. I've been playing this game since closed beta. I've participated in every major update and every major expansion. This game has slowly but surely been streamlined (some would argue simplified) over time. The goal? To make a more inclusive and accepting experience.

One of the biggest problem with all MMOs is newcomer retention. MMOs historically have a bad track record with encouraging new players to join. Why is this? The game is set up in such a way that benefits the veteran over everybody else. This is particularly true with endgame gear progression.

The moment a new player comes into the game, they are instantly at a disadvantage and a massive learning curve is needed to understand the complexities of the system. For a veteran to the MMORPG genre, this may not seem like a big deal. However, to folks who have never played an MMO, this is a daunting task.

These anti-newcomer systems discourage new players and prevent the game from truly growing over time. The longer the MMO is around, the less likely newcomers are to join. Herein lies why Galactic Command is an ingenious system.

BioWare has equalized the playing field and made a system that is fair to all. Whether you are a veteran of five years or you just started playing today, everybody has the same opportunity to achieve gear. Some of you may not like the RNG element, but the actual concept for Galactic Command is solid and worth saving.

The nay-sayers who say the system is abhorrent and has ruined the game are those who believe they are entitled to the best gear immediately. Admittedly, this mentality is BioWare's fault. After Battlemaster Bags were removed, BioWare had a knee-jerk reaction and implemented a system where achieving PvP gear was far too easy. This is also true of raiding where gear pieces were switched out with tokens to make the gearing process that much faster.

These "quality of life" changes for the veteran player were great, but not necessarily for anybody else. Galactic Command looks to rewrite the many mistakes BioWare has made with gear progression for years. Some of you may not like how it has tremendously slowed down gear progression. But, you should also probably re-evaluate yourselves and ask are you really entitled to having the best gear within days of a major expansion launching.

Galactic Command is a system that benefits all, not just the few. I am a veteran player and I support this new system.

Inclusiveness.

Inclusiveness. It's really that simple. I've been playing this game since closed beta. I've participated in every major update and every major expansion. This game has slowly but surely been streamlined (some would argue simplified) over time. The goal? To make a more inclusive and accepting experience.

 

One of the biggest problem with all MMOs is newcomer retention. MMOs historically have a bad track record with encouraging new players to join. Why is this? The game is set up in such a way that benefits the veteran over everybody else. This is particularly true with endgame gear progression.

 

The moment a new player comes into the game, they are instantly at a disadvantage and a massive learning curve is needed to understand the complexities of the system. For a veteran to the MMORPG genre, this may not seem like a big deal. However, to folks who have never played an MMO, this is a daunting task.

 

These anti-newcomer systems discourage new players and prevent the game from truly growing over time. The longer the MMO is around, the less likely newcomers are to join. Herein lies why Galactic Command is an ingenious system.

 

BioWare has equalized the playing field and made a system that is fair to all. Whether you are a veteran of five years or you just started playing today, everybody has the same opportunity to achieve gear. Some of you may not like the RNG element, but the actual concept for Galactic Command is solid and worth saving.

 

The nay-sayers who say the system is abhorrent and has ruined the game are those who believe they are entitled to the best gear immediately. Admittedly, this mentality is BioWare's fault. After Battlemaster Bags were removed, BioWare had a knee-jerk reaction and implemented a system where achieving PvP gear was far too easy. This is also true of raiding where gear pieces were switched out with tokens to make the gearing process that much faster.

 

These "quality of life" changes for the veteran player were great, but not necessarily for anybody else. Galactic Command looks to rewrite the many mistakes BioWare has made with gear progression for years. Some of you may not like how it has tremendously slowed down gear progression. But, you should also probably re-evaluate yourselves and ask are you really entitled to having the best gear within days of a major expansion launching.

 

Galactic Command is a system that benefits all, not just the few. I am a veteran player and I support this new system.

Actually, most of them are saying that the way bioware implemented RNG (something or nothing) is whats wrong...not RNG itself which should determine what you get...not IF you get.

GC has the possibility to be good and interesting for all. Thats not a bad thing.

However, RNG gearing is bad as a concept from start to finish as every player has to rely on luck to get what is needed or even wanted. A new play can be screwed over just as much as an old player. One PVPer could have all the best gear and the same GC rank as another but player 2 is unlucky and has little get to show for his time and effort if any because of RNG.

GC has potential to benefit all but RNG does not do that as part of gearing in GC.

Letting any gamer do whatever content they want for gear is pretty good but it's the RNG factor that is FUBAR. Stains the entire potential of GC. They should have taken the old gearing system of 4.0 and adjusted it into GC. Let it add some gear distribution time if that was such a bad thing but RNG gearing has 300 levels that will take the normal gamers 8+ months to even get to the lower levels of Tier 3. Sorry thats incompetence in game design and development when it comes to gearing end game toons and gear distribution time.

It's almost like you haven't really been reading what gamers have a problem with. It wasn't allowing everyone to do what they wanted to get all gear.

Massive grind time well outside what I think would be considered normal for gear distribution. Plus new gamers way behind even a casual gamers with a long road to catch up.

RNG gearing (maybe, maybe not gearing for all your time in game)

and all that before I get into how terrible GC currently is for playing alts.

So no, RNG is not perfect for SWTOR. RNG and perfect shouldn't even be used in the same sentence together when it comes to any game.

Yes it does even the playing field for gear. Unfortunately i spent 5 years grinding away at operations with 7 other people perfecting rotations and boss fights. I spent 5 years building up 30 characters to raid on to supply gear to my mains. I would spend hours grinding operations in the 1st week on 30 characters to gear my main so i could raid with my guild.

Now as someone who plays once a week i am ****ed over.

I put in 5 years worth of time to end up being shat on. Yeah great system, no NiM raiding for me no more

Two points you missed on.

1 new players to any mmo know that they are going to be behind due to necessity to learn the complexities that all mmos have. it is that simple, i knew when i started playing right before DvL that i was going to have to figure out what was going on.

2. New player retention pales in comparison to dedicated player retention. Ability to retain new players is meaningless if you lose more long term proven subscribers.

funny story. imagine you start playing few months down the road. a friend brings you in or you just hear about it later for whatever reason. you level up, you start exploring what you can do at end game. except... everyone else is well above you in gear and there are NO catch up mechanics. just grind from scratch. and you will never catch up. there is just no way. no more friends you made running your through content to get you geared up quickly and playing the same content they do. no more buying gear you miss from vendors. just you will never EVER catch up if you didn't start early enough - grind.

oh yeah. so inclusive.

Grind-disintergrate-repeat. Thanks for including me in the "fun!"

Grind-lose roll-repeat

You're welcome!

I support this new system if they put the OPS gear vendors back on the fleets and let the OPS bosses drop the same unassembled items and random pieces they always have. Then everyone is happy.

Giving progression raiders preferential treatment invalidates what Galactic Command attempts to achieve. This is not a solution.

Inclusiveness. It's really that simple. I've been playing this game since closed beta. I've participated in every major update and every major expansion. This game has slowly but surely been streamlined (some would argue simplified) over time. The goal? To make a more inclusive and accepting experience.

 

One of the biggest problem with all MMOs is newcomer retention. MMOs historically have a bad track record with encouraging new players to join. Why is this? The game is set up in such a way that benefits the veteran over everybody else. This is particularly true with endgame gear progression.

 

The moment a new player comes into the game, they are instantly at a disadvantage and a massive learning curve is needed to understand the complexities of the system. For a veteran to the MMORPG genre, this may not seem like a big deal. However, to folks who have never played an MMO, this is a daunting task.

 

These anti-newcomer systems discourage new players and prevent the game from truly growing over time. The longer the MMO is around, the less likely newcomers are to join. Herein lies why Galactic Command is an ingenious system.

 

BioWare has equalized the playing field and made a system that is fair to all. Whether you are a veteran of five years or you just started playing today, everybody has the same opportunity to achieve gear. Some of you may not like the RNG element, but the actual concept for Galactic Command is solid and worth saving.

 

The nay-sayers who say the system is abhorrent and has ruined the game are those who believe they are entitled to the best gear immediately. Admittedly, this mentality is BioWare's fault. After Battlemaster Bags were removed, BioWare had a knee-jerk reaction and implemented a system where achieving PvP gear was far too easy. This is also true of raiding where gear pieces were switched out with tokens to make the gearing process that much faster.

 

These "quality of life" changes for the veteran player were great, but not necessarily for anybody else. Galactic Command looks to rewrite the many mistakes BioWare has made with gear progression for years. Some of you may not like how it has tremendously slowed down gear progression. But, you should also probably re-evaluate yourselves and ask are you really entitled to having the best gear within days of a major expansion launching.

 

Galactic Command is a system that benefits all, not just the few. I am a veteran player and I support this new system.

They way it is implemented is the complete opposite of what you are describing.

Let me elaborate on one of your points. The veteran versus the new player.

The veteran who has already grinded out 250 levels over a ten month period and has 240 gear, as a example, is about to do a raid and you want to come along and your currently CxP rank 5. Under the old system, a group of veterans could run you through KP and EV in about 2 to 2.5 hours and you would have 10-14 pieces of gear by the end (because they let you have all the drops to 'power gear' you to catch up with the grinding they have already done). With this new abomination, they instead will look at the fact that you have another 245 levels of grinding to catch up to them and therefore take a pass on you.

Same will eventually happen in PvP as the gear deferential alienates new players who haven't put the grind time in.

Over time you will see this current system will actually alienate new players from group content than have them included. Why do I know this, because it already happens in grindfest MMOs today. Why do you think the SWTOR grindfest will be any different?

Actually, most of them are saying that the way bioware implemented RNG (something or nothing) is whats wrong...not RNG itself which should determine what you get...not IF you get.

You are always guaranteed a gear piece. It just may not be a gear piece you need. If you find the command crate to be lacking, disintegrate and move on to the next command crate. This system is actually built to encourage rapid level gains so that players will eventually achieve the gear they want.

I am kinda confused by the OP.

Since 4.0 we have had level sync.

For a long time we have had PVP bolster.

For a long time we have had OPS bolster.

For a long time we have had FP bolster.

Since 4.0 every FP can be qued at level 10.

GSF can be qued at level 1. However, gear here does matter so not really a good point but its the point that at level 1 you can start working on it.

Since 4.0 super comps with roles that can be selected. Remember those days when certain classing didn't get a healer comp until level 20-30.

Ranked PVP, everyone was gated to have at least the full expertise set.

From the beginning the mini and large map show exactly where your next mission is and even points you in the right direction. Since 4.0 this has been expanded to make them color coded as well.

Did the DVL event to legendary. Not once did I use modable gear or any comms, because the blues that dropped from FP and mobs were enough to get me to 50.

How is it uneven and benefits the veteran over everybody else?

How are new people not inclusive?

GC has the possibility to be good and interesting for all. Thats not a bad thing.

 

However, RNG gearing is bad as a concept from start to finish as every player has to rely on luck to get what is needed or even wanted. A new play can be screwed over just as much as an old player. One PVPer could have all the best gear and the same GC rank as another but player 2 is unlucky and has little get to show for his time and effort if any because of RNG.

 

GC has potential to benefit all but RNG does not do that as part of gearing in GC.

 

Letting any gamer do whatever content they want for gear is pretty good but it's the RNG factor that is FUBAR. Stains the entire potential of GC. They should have taken the old gearing system of 4.0 and adjusted it into GC. Let it add some gear distribution time if that was such a bad thing but RNG gearing has 300 levels that will take the normal gamers 8+ months to even get to the lower levels of Tier 3. Sorry thats incompetence in game design and development when it comes to gearing end game toons and gear distribution time.

 

It's almost like you haven't really been reading what gamers have a problem with. It wasn't allowing everyone to do what they wanted to get all gear.

 

Massive grind time well outside what I think would be considered normal for gear distribution. Plus new gamers way behind even a casual gamers with a long road to catch up.

RNG gearing (maybe, maybe not gearing for all your time in game)

and all that before I get into how terrible GC currently is for playing alts.

 

So no, RNG is not perfect for SWTOR. RNG and perfect shouldn't even be used in the same sentence together when it comes to any game.

I think the problem here ultimately is what people believe they are entitled to. BioWare obviously believes gear progression was too rapid pre-5.0. I happen to agree. Ever since Battlemaster Bags were removed, gear progression in PvP was beyond ridiculous. It was always way too easy and way too fast. It was also a detriment to newcomers who did not understand the system as well as the veteran. This led to division in the community that greatly discourages newcomers.

BioWare has already stated they are willing to make adjustments to the RNG and even make ways for alts to be viable in the future. I just do not agree with much of the rhetoric on this forum that the entire system needs to be thrown out. I believe it largely achieves what it is meant to, equalize gear progression and slow it down.

You are always guaranteed a gear piece. It just may not be a gear piece you need. If you find the command crate to be lacking, disintegrate and move on to the next command crate. This system is actually built to encourage rapid level gains so that players will eventually achieve the gear they want.

Your first statement is false. I have fifteen crates to date and exactly three gear pieces have dropped. Some other on these forums have gone through a lot more crates for a lot less in gear drops.

That is why this system is terrible as implemented. You are NOT guaranteed a gear piece.

First, you have a slim chance of getting a piece.

Second, that chance becomes even slimmer as you gear up of getting the chance you need.

Third, this system is in no way, shape or form fast. It slows down immensely as you get higher levels to the point where a casual player - maybe playing five to ten hours a week - is going to get ONE crate a week. Now imagine going four weeks, getting four crates, and getting NOTHING useful for your time. That is what we have today.

Yes it does even the playing field for gear. Unfortunately i spent 5 years grinding away at operations with 7 other people perfecting rotations and boss fights. I spent 5 years building up 30 characters to raid on to supply gear to my mains. I would spend hours grinding operations in the 1st week on 30 characters to gear my main so i could raid with my guild.

Now as someone who plays once a week i am ****ed over.

I put in 5 years worth of time to end up being shat on. Yeah great system, no NiM raiding for me no more

You are the veteran, not the newcomer. However, hard mode operations are still very much viable with 220/224 rating gear. The only thing you can't do as it stands is Nightmare Operations, and I can understand why BioWare would slow this process as people were hitting the most difficult raid content way too quickly. Galactic Command was meant to slow gear progression, and it has achieved that. Folks simply do not like being slowed down, and it's showing on this forum.

funny story. imagine you start playing few months down the road. a friend brings you in or you just hear about it later for whatever reason. you level up, you start exploring what you can do at end game. except... everyone else is well above you in gear and there are NO catch up mechanics. just grind from scratch. and you will never catch up. there is just no way. no more friends you made running your through content to get you geared up quickly and playing the same content they do. no more buying gear you miss from vendors. just you will never EVER catch up if you didn't start early enough - grind.

 

oh yeah. so inclusive.

Only a minority will likely be the players hitting the command level cap. It's unlikely most players will, which proves even more that newcomers will actually have a fair stake in this system.

You are the veteran, not the newcomer. However, hard mode operations are still very much viable with 220/224 rating gear. The only thing you can't do as it stands is Nightmare Operations, and I can understand why BioWare would slow this process as people were hitting the most difficult raid content way too quickly. Galactic Command was meant to slow gear progression, and it has achieved that. Folks simply do not like being slowed down, and it's showing on this forum.

you are not. seeing it. from a perspective. of actual. casual. and/or. new. player.

this system makes it IMPOSSIBLE for them to catch up. prior to that - it was actualy more inclusive, becasue no matter when you started playing, you could catch up and be on par with veterans. now? thanks to the time consuming grind that you CANNOT circumvent? new players will never. EVER catch up. casual players have no chance. this system is the exact opposite of inclusive.

Only a minority will likely be the players hitting the command level cap. It's unlikely most players will, which proves even more that newcomers will actually have a fair stake in this system.

for god's sakes. its not about hitting the cap. its about falling behind on gear progression. permanently. it takes a LONG time just to start getting rank 2 crates, let alone rank 3 crates, and then you are bound behind rng. if you start later? you are hopelessly behind.

You are always guaranteed a gear piece. It just may not be a gear piece you need. If you find the command crate to be lacking, disintegrate and move on to the next command crate. This system is actually built to encourage rapid level gains so that players will eventually achieve the gear they want.

And yet the problem is it may not be a gear piece you need.

At least with operations if i didnt need it, i didnt roll for it. I chased certain bosses to get what i needed. Now as a casual i am left so far behind now they in the 2 days i have played this xpac i have received only a 230 saber. In the time it took doing that i could have run 5-6 operations and scored atleast 3-4 token pieces or upgraded non set bonus gear.

The new system is trash.

I think the problem here ultimately is what people believe they are entitled to. BioWare obviously believes gear progression was too rapid pre-5.0. I happen to agree. Ever since Battlemaster Bags were removed, gear progression in PvP was beyond ridiculous. It was always way too easy and way too fast. It was also a detriment to newcomers who did not understand the system as well as the veteran. This led to division in the community that greatly discourages newcomers.

 

BioWare has already stated they are willing to make adjustments to the RNG and even make ways for alts to be viable in the future. I just do not agree with much of the rhetoric on this forum that the entire system needs to be thrown out. I believe it largely achieves what it is meant to, equalize gear progression and slow it down.

Gearing was not to fast in pre-5.0 for the alt heavy game they had designed. Legacy levels and bonuses, Legendary player status, and the DvL event are just three examples of how they have pushed for people to be alt heavy. Read some of the threads were some people have 30 and 40 alts. It is also why they allow subscribers over 50 slots on a server.

The system would be too fast if the game was about one character, but it is not. Gearing all of the alts was a lot of time and effort. That was one of the strengths of the game pre-5.0 was the variety in playing different classes. That is what kept a lot of people interested. Now 5.0 goes against everything this game was designed around since the 1.x era.

funny story. imagine you start playing few months down the road. a friend brings you in or you just hear about it later for whatever reason. you level up, you start exploring what you can do at end game. except... everyone else is well above you in gear and there are NO catch up mechanics. just grind from scratch. and you will never catch up. there is just no way. no more friends you made running your through content to get you geared up quickly and playing the same content they do. no more buying gear you miss from vendors. just you will never EVER catch up if you didn't start early enough - grind.

 

oh yeah. so inclusive.

Same thing I was thinking.

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that it's inclusive, OP. The idea of letting people get BiS gear no matter what they play is certainly a simplification, but with how it's been implemented, it's not remotely inclusive or enticing to new players. Like Jeweled said, you have to take into account the guy who joins late and is facing a grind that immediately discourages him from even trying.

There's nothing fair about RNG and the only way you could call the gearing itself remotely "inclusive" is if the RNG was abolished and every activity gave the exact same amount of tokens for time invested, balanced for estimated time needed to complete. That could be called inclusive and could be called appealing to new players in the way that you are arguing.

But most of the arguments against GC have nothing to do with the presence of inclusiveness because it doesn't have it, nor do they have to do with giving us a fair system because it isn't one. Considering what the majority of arguments against GC are, you're more or less arguing with a strawman.

They way it is implemented is the complete opposite of what you are describing.

 

Let me elaborate on one of your points. The veteran versus the new player.

 

The veteran who has already grinded out 250 levels over a ten month period and has 240 gear, as a example, is about to do a raid and you want to come along and your currently CxP rank 5. Under the old system, a group of veterans could run you through KP and EV in about 2 to 2.5 hours and you would have 10-14 pieces of gear by the end (because they let you have all the drops to 'power gear' you to catch up with the grinding they have already done). With this new abomination, they instead will look at the fact that you have another 245 levels of grinding to catch up to them and therefore take a pass on you.

 

Same will eventually happen in PvP as the gear deferential alienates new players who haven't put the grind time in.

 

Over time you will see this current system will actually alienate new players from group content than have them included. Why do I know this, because it already happens in grindfest MMOs today. Why do you think the SWTOR grindfest will be any different?

First, you are assuming there will be plenty players who are level 250+. I'm of the opinion many will likely not get that far. Secondly, newcomers will be able to do story and veteran operations just fine in 228/230 gear. Nightmare Operations are out of reach for everybody and I believe most players will not have the gear for progression raiding for quite some time, newcomers or veterans.

PvP is the polar opposite now. Many claim expertise was the major barrier for newcomers and non-pvpers joining in the queue. Expertise no longer exists, and bolster is still a featured system that equalizes gearing to a point. Ultimately, warzones and arenas are less about gear and more about knowing which classes to focus fire and how to play objectives. Gear, at most, is only half the battle.

SWTOR's "grindfest" is fair to everybody, not just veterans. The problem with most MMOs is they aren't friendly to newcomers, and BioWare is making strides to change that folly of the MMO genre.

Your first statement is false. I have fifteen crates to date and exactly three gear pieces have dropped. Some other on these forums have gone through a lot more crates for a lot less in gear drops.

 

That is why this system is terrible as implemented. You are NOT guaranteed a gear piece.

 

First, you have a slim chance of getting a piece.

 

Second, that chance becomes even slimmer as you gear up of getting the chance you need.

 

Third, this system is in no way, shape or form fast. It slows down immensely as you get higher levels to the point where a casual player - maybe playing five to ten hours a week - is going to get ONE crate a week. Now imagine going four weeks, getting four crates, and getting NOTHING useful for your time. That is what we have today.

You have 100% chance of getting a gear piece. You are conflating gear with a set piece bonus, which is not guaranteed. That's an entirely separate discussion as you are always getting gear. This is also a moot point as you can just have a crafter make you a full set of 230s and you can skip the entire RNG process.