It seems to be a complete crap shot when it comes to healers in solo ranked. Get a good one and it's often an easy win, and get a bad one and you will most likely have lost. To a lesser extend the same could be said about tanks, but a bad healer will almost guarantee that you are going to lose. Yes a dps that gets globalled is also traumatic, but being on the side without healer or tank is far worse.

 

Do you queue dodge healers or only queue when when you know you will pull "the right one"?

Edited June 14, 2018 by Lundorff

I like to play with healers that way I always have an excuse why I died and did poor dps.

Honeslty, I prefer all pvp without healers. It makes the environment more dynamic and faster.

People actually need to know how their DCDs work and learn some tactics to counter certain classes. It also stops a lot of classes not designed to face tank from doing it.

Basically, it makes people learn their classes strengths and weakness as well as other classes. “It” should theoretically make them better players.

Some of the best matches are ones with no healers or tanks, which are rare indeed. I always play as if I have no tanks around me.

I like to play with healers that way I always have an excuse why I died and did poor dps.

 

And that is why I dislike healers and think everyone would learn to play better if they didn’t rely on them

And that is why I dislike healers and think everyone would learn to play better if they didn’t rely on them

 

I need heals tho.

I need heals tho.

 

No you don’t, if there are no healer at all in the match, you don’t need them. It’s only when one team has them, that you “need” them to balance the engagement.

Yes you benfit from them, but need? No.

Edited June 15, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

I think 3 dps 1 healer are the most fun arena matches. I don't mind 4 dps, but I'm bored out of my mind when a tank gets thrown in. Guard mechanic just makes everything boring. Edited June 15, 2018 by Raansu

I think 3 dps 1 healer are the most fun arena matches. I don't mind 4 dps, but I'm bored out of my mind when a tank gets thrown in. Guard mechanic just makes everything boring.

 

Tank/healer matches are fun when everyone on both teams are high caliber players, one sided when one team out matches the other, and long winded stalemates at low elo.

 

Arenas with support classes when both teams are balanced are infinitely better than arenas without support classes because they require more strategy than "tunnel person x;" but I think 4 dps vs 4 dps matches are better when you have mismatched teams since large differences in healer/tank skill often determine the outcome of the match.

Edited June 15, 2018 by alexsamma

depends entirely on the class I am playing

 

For example, I find sorc dps pretty decent in 4 dps games. A good dot spread or two, the ability to heal yourself and others, and wasting time with kiting and barrier/pw can actually have a large impact.

 

In 3 dps games the impact of all of these things is severely diminished. If the other team is loaded up with strong classes and, god forbid, marauders you just eat interrupts and hardstuns for about 90 seconds and die.

 

I think that to a pretty large degree healers exacerbate class balance issues, and tanks largely mitigate them. Marauders and snipers are at their most terrifying with healers backing them up, and classes like sorc are at their most hosed. I don't feel that much better off on a sniper or mara than a sorc in many 4 dps games but in 3 dps 1 healer games the difference is like night and day.

Edited June 15, 2018 by yellow_

snip

 

I think it's accurate to say that in general healers exacerbate class balance issues, and tanks mitigate them. I don't feel *that* much better off on my sniper in 4 dps games than I do on my sorc. But in 3 dps 1 healer games it's like night and *********** day, the difference.

 

Why do healers exacerbate class balance issues while tanks mitigate them?

The greatest issue with healers in sr stems from the way the elo system works. It will prioritize having a healer or tank on either side based on role alone, and that means you might end up with 800-1100 rated healer, while the other team has 2k healer. No amount of dps (well almost no amount) can make up for a healer only pulling ~3k hps while the other is doing +8k hps.

Why do healers exacerbate class balance issues while tanks mitigate them?

I'm open to argument here and there may be several factors but I think it's largely about dcd cycles. For example, the fairly short cooldowns of force camo and cloak of pain relative to something like force barrier are of little consequence in a dueling or 4 dps vs 4 dps situations - you're probably only going to get one of each. So it's just how much value does 1 use of this cooldown provide versus that one. In a 3 dps 1 healer game, however, the relatively short cooldowns of force camo and cloak of pain are paramount. If you get 3 camos and 2 cloak of pains you have now multiplied their value relative to something you can probably only use once (e.g. phase walk and barrier). Sniper and PT is another good example. Snipers can get an extremely good cycle going with healers around, powertechs cannot (not against 3 capable and coordinated dps, anyway).

 

Also having a healer around makes it a little harder for someone on an objectively stronger class to choke and end up failing to actually put their superior dcd cycle to use, like breaking something stupid and dying before they can get out of the next stun and actually use DCDs they still had.

 

TBH I think tanks probably have some aspects that both mitigate and exacerbate class balance issues. But things like being able to put an opportunity cost on just zerging the weakest class on the other team, or enabling specs with ramp up time or susceptibility to a lot of early stun and interrupts are unquestionably helpful for parity.

 

I don't think the confidence boost I feel when a healer loads in when I'm playing sniper or the groan I let out when one loads in and I'm playing madness is due to a delusion. Although I suppose that's probably what a delusional person would say!

Edited June 15, 2018 by yellow_

I need heals tho.

 

Kill it before it kills you

The greatest issue with healers in sr stems from the way the elo system works. It will prioritize having a healer or tank on either side based on role alone, and that means you might end up with 800-1100 rated healer, while the other team has 2k healer. No amount of dps (well almost no amount) can make up for a healer only pulling ~3k hps while the other is doing +8k hps.

 

Happened 2 nights ago, our healer was 900 and theirs was 1800 we simply got that cause there were 2 in que so no matter the rating, it just puts them against each other.

I mostly like 4 dps vs 4 dps, its the most optimal loadout since if you have a healer or tank, it all comes down to this guy! If your healer/tank is bad, you already lost. If you have all dps teams and 1 dps is bad, you can still turn the tide, but not in healer/tank games.

 

Lastly I hate 2d 1h 1t games, they just take too long. That makes me wonder, will not all ranked matches be 1t 1h 2d after they apply the matchmaking?

Edited June 15, 2018 by merovejec

Happened 2 nights ago, our healer was 900 and theirs was 1800 we simply got that cause there were 2 in que so no matter the rating, it just puts them against each other.

 

Yup. As a new healer myself (~1250 elo) I was pitched against vlad (Kritsur). Needless to explain how that match went

Yup. As a new healer myself (~1250 elo) I was pitched against vlad (Kritsur). Needless to explain how that match went

 

I dare say that’s how one learns. Playing with and against better players.

 

I don’t like 4d vs 4d coz thy come down to who can 4-1 poor dude faster and if you are new then it’s even harder for you. Also personally I don’t like that those games are more about survival then anything else.

 

Trinity games are my favorite as it takes into consideration more , like teamwork and strats and also show more how you can perform your role ( say for dd it’s getting a kill rather then kiting 4 reds ). Also game is balanced bettter for trinity format.

 

Otherwise I think yellow’s post make sense in regards that healer game often exasperates some class discrepancies

Edited June 15, 2018 by MackPol

I dare say that’s how one learns. Playing with and against better players.

 

If you have the stamina and the lack of ego then yes, you would eventually learn it this way.

 

But:

 

a) all organized competition have brackets and leagues to prevent silly matches and to ensure that things are interesting

 

and

 

b) while I would learn from the experience, I doubt my team-mates would appreciate it

Yup. As a new healer myself (~1250 elo) I was pitched against vlad (Kritsur). Needless to explain how that match went

I returned to ranked on my healer last season (after 3-4 season hiatus) and out of my first ten games seven were against people who got to top 10 on their Sorcs. It was certainly an experience.

I'm open to argument here and there may be several factors but I think it's largely about dcd cycles. For example, the fairly short cooldowns of force camo and cloak of pain relative to something like force barrier are of little consequence in a dueling or 4 dps vs 4 dps situations - you're probably only going to get one of each. So it's just how much value does 1 use of this cooldown provide versus that one. In a 3 dps 1 healer game, however, the relatively short cooldowns of force camo and cloak of pain are paramount. If you get 3 camos and 2 cloak of pains you have now multiplied their value relative to something you can probably only use once (e.g. phase walk and barrier). Sniper and PT is another good example. Snipers can get an extremely good cycle going with healers around, powertechs cannot (not against 3 capable and coordinated dps, anyway).

 

Also having a healer around makes it a little harder for someone on an objectively stronger class to choke and end up failing to actually put their superior dcd cycle to use, like breaking something stupid and dying before they can get out of the next stun and actually use DCDs they still had.

 

TBH I think tanks probably have some aspects that both mitigate and exacerbate class balance issues. But things like being able to put an opportunity cost on just zerging the weakest class on the other team, or enabling specs with ramp up time or susceptibility to a lot of early stun and interrupts are unquestionably helpful for parity.

 

I don't think the confidence boost I feel when a healer loads in when I'm playing sniper or the groan I let out when one loads in and I'm playing madness is due to a delusion. Although I suppose that's probably what a delusional person would say!

 

I think I see what you're saying. A healer is like a force multiplier, so they'll have a greater effect on the match when they're paired with a stronger class. A tank can blunt the edge of an OP class with guard, etc., so they reduce imbalance in that respect, but when they're paired with a healer, they serve as a force multiplier for the healer. So the difference you feel on your sniper and sorc is due to the fact that a healer makes the sorc's healing abilities far less significant, but multiplies the sniper's strengths.

starting your tank or healer journey late in the season is hard, I'm fairly sure the % of people still playing those roles regularly who are strong players slowly creeps higher and higher as the season goes by with the maximum amount of weaker players to get elo from at its highest in the first few weeks of the season

 

I think I see what you're saying. A healer is like a force multiplier, so they'll have a greater effect on the match when they're paired with a stronger class. A tank can blunt the edge of an OP class with guard, etc., so they reduce imbalance in that respect, but when they're paired with a healer, they serve as a force multiplier for the healer. So the difference you feel on your sniper and sorc is due to the fact that a healer makes the sorc's healing abilities far less significant, but multiplies the sniper's strengths.

pretty much, although I think this may be more a coincidence of what is good right now (e.g. snipers or marauders) than something that's necessarily true. I'm realizing how long the meta has been stale since I actually can't remember if I would have preferred 4 dps games as a madness sorc in season 7 when they were top tier in solos....but I think I probably would have

In all honesty I only play healers in solo ranked, when I do ranked. I was being facetious when I said 'I need heals tho,' seeing I only play healers in actuality.

 

In solo ranked, it still often times can come down to the healer having to be better at survival than the other healer. Often times that decides the outcome, just as often as a dps going down first anyway.

 

That's the part of being a healer that's most frustrating is when you are relying on your team as much as they are on you, yet as the healer you get **** on when you die first or do less heals when in actuality this isn't always the fault of the healer. If you got a team that fails to peel, fails to support the healer then the healer's performance can be compromised too.

 

People seem to act as if all glory goes to the dps and tank not heals, and if failure occurs it's because of the healer being inept and a "bad." Healers are just as much a part of the team and need support too.

Tank/healer matches are fun when everyone on both teams are high caliber players, one sided when one team out matches the other, and long winded stalemates at low elo.

 

Traditional group comp of tank/healer just devolves down to hard swaps or tank burn. The meta is just bleh, and most of the time the fights just devolve down to the acid anyways. Guard literally changes how you approach anything because its such an overpowered mechanic. Hell, guard is the very reason why healers can never be properly balanced.

Its kind of a double edge sword. I absolutely agree with not having heals should increase the players skill with his class. I main a marauder and in fact I started to play all the classes just to see how they worked so I could better understand how to shut them down on my mara. Plus I do agree that heals can have a multiplying effect on certain class DCD's while nullifying others.

 

However, without heals it can also make some self healing a bit op or even some DCDs in general for example: This was a 8v8 reg but the other team had like 2 heals and we had none. both teams had good dps so the match was a bit brutal. I was on my marauder and I am comparing to a merc on our team as we were the top dps by far on our team. I did about 2.6 mil (and #1 on both teams) and he had about 2.4 mil. I had 1.6mil damage taken and he had 1.5mil damage taken. However I died 7 times and he died only once. Apply this math to an arena and I would have died and he would have.

 

Take for instance force camo. If I'm a marauder and I get focused first I either die or I can force camo out and try to hide. in both situations it removes me from my job as dpsing the other team and thus puts the other team at an advantage of 3v4. It also prevents me using camo as an OCD against certain classes like snipers.

 

There is also the fact of simple imbalance that a healer can fix. I did a ranked arena the other day and on my team it was me on my mara and another mara and I believe a jugg and an op. We were against 2 snipers who both happened to be ENG. needless to say it made our melee mute with no heals.

 

Traditional group comp of tank/healer just devolves down to hard swaps or tank burn. The meta is just bleh, and most of the time the fights just devolve down to the acid anyways. Guard literally changes how you approach anything because its such an overpowered mechanic. Hell, guard is the very reason why healers can never be properly balanced.

LOL last time I did group ranked was the gladiatorial one. And we were hard swapping to whoever had the least health which in most cases happened to be the tank. So we hard swapped to the tank and kill him. Next thing I know we are getting ridiculed for burning down the tank because apparently killing the tank is not allowed and we were bads for using such a bad forbidden strategy. LOL

Edited June 15, 2018 by Ld-Siris

LOL last time I did group ranked was the gladiatorial one. And we were hard swapping to whoever had the least health which in most cases happened to be the tank. So we hard swapped to the tank and kill him. Next thing I know we are getting ridiculed for burning down the tank because apparently killing the tank is not allowed and we were bads for using such a bad forbidden strategy. LOL

 

Its a forbidden tactic now? What? lmao.