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Operative healer good at anything?


ecstazypop

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Hello,

Is the operative/scoundrel heal have any effectivity in PvP?

I play regs on DM. This is impossible for me to handle.

While I queue solo, without any premade, when enemy people see me they focus on me instantly, I get focus from 3 people at least, double stun me, kill me instantly, If I unbreak, get netted, if I flash No effect vs mara cc immunity or sin shroud, if I manage to cloak I cloak at same time while I receive my killing blow, etc etc.

Watching my position but if I'm spotted I get nuked and all wz turn into a nightmare to me, and feels like 1v3-4-5 etc. Running from enemy, but their predation always there to come and kill me, while in stun no defense from evasion either.

In team ranked not viable, getting stunned on whitebar, whitebar expires in 10 seconds, then I get stun again, in 10 seconds it's impossible for me to cover all the amount of heal that can I do based on gcd's compared to Merc or Sorc heal, not talking about being consta interrupted and no dmg red in stun.

It's a class hard to master and so easy to kill.

So is it worth this class and spec anymore?

Edited by ecstazypop
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Against competent groups in regs, medicine op is probably the most brutal to play out of the 3 healers. Def need the 6% dmg reduction utility and always have 2 koltos on you at all times. Sadly, without any team help (like a guard) you will be globaled way easier then the other 2 healer classes. Also like you said, no real defense vs chain stuns (atleast mercs and sorcs can spec into 30% dmg reduction during stun) makes OP the easiest healer class to global through.

 

Its still a good class, just not as good as the other 2 IMO.

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Operative healing is the best healing spec in all of the game, but it is also the hardest to learn and also the hardest to master.

 

(Based on 4v4 environments)

Purely based on number, operative healing can pull 10k-13k hps, whereas the best sorc healers and merc healers can pull 6k-8k. However qualitatively operative healing is much harder. There are much fewer "glowing" buttons to press. And operative healing is also reliant on "proactive healing" whereas both merc and sorc are "reactive healing." By that I mean that a large amount of operative healing is keeping hots on everyone before they get to 20% and reactive healing is when a healer just any damage taken.

 

Survivability wise, operative healing is by far the squishiest. Operative healers are the only healers in the game that can get globaled with out breaker. Sorc has bubble, merc has reflect. The other problem, like you did mention, is that when operatives use breaker for a double stun, you have 6 seconds before white bar is down, after which they will be able to double stun you again, this time without breaker and you will be dead. My best advice is to use some kind of Damage Reduction ability before you get stunned (if you can anticipate the stun lock), such as adrenal or stim boost (with utility). Of course, cloak out is also a very ****** move because, like you said, you can get killed through it and dots take you out of stealth as well. Best thing to do is DO NOT stealth at sub 5% heath. You will probably die if you do. If I get lower than 20% I will usually cloak out. And make sure evasion is up to cleanse any dots.

 

Like I said, operative healing is imo the hardest healer to both learn and master but also has the highest skill potential. My recommendation is to keep on healing. Like all classes you'll pick up little tricks and gut feelings that will prove invaluable in keeping you alive and raising your hps.

Edited by septru
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Nice, I ask a question about a class and spec and getting taught of how to heal and to survive. Would u like to recommend hottie's guide for begginers?

Funny, u talk about reactive and proactive healing when me and my teammates die in a stun, just a stun. if I unbreak, chainstun and net. I don't have time to even hot manage because I do so fast, at the end of short match I have around 2-3 mil damage taken.

U pvp where? On Satele? U ever been to DM server? Qing there in regs is pure masochism, everyone die in a stun. :D and no kolto probe can keep people alive

Edited by ecstazypop
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Try to kite more if you dont have tank with you, usually it possible to kite 3 dd dudes in regs. If ppl who focus u are good, then u supposed to die w/o guard on you =)

 

P.S Hottie's guide is pretty lit for beginners, i strongly reccomend to read it.

Edited by GUN_GAME
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U kite 3 pugs, but not an army of elitists people who hunt u down to pin u and stun u on whitebar.

What tank? I said I solo queue. What guide? I read it, doesn't change anything, lol, can't avoid doublestun death even if u pop dcd before, u remain with no dcd after and die in a stun if u get focus for next 2 min-3 min without dcd to use "before stun".

Friend, I asked a question, didn't asked for a guide, thanks.

Edited by ecstazypop
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U kite 3 pugs, but not an army of elitists people who hunt u down to pin u and stun u on whitebar.

What tank? I said I solo queue. What guide? I read it, doesn't change anything, lol, can't avoid doublestun death even if u pop dcd before, u remain with no dcd after and die in a stun if u get focus for next 2 min-3 min without dcd to use "before stun".

Friend, I asked a question, didn't asked for a guide, thanks.

I recomend u to read my previous post, 2nd sentence to be more clear.

Operative healers good balanced and dont need any dcds buffs, and they good in any type of content if you play it right.

Edited by GUN_GAME
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U kite 3 pugs, but not an army of elitists people who hunt u down to pin u and stun u on whitebar.

What tank? I said I solo queue. What guide? I read it, doesn't change anything, lol, can't avoid doublestun death even if u pop dcd before, u remain with no dcd after and die in a stun if u get focus for next 2 min-3 min without dcd to use "before stun".

Friend, I asked a question, didn't asked for a guide, thanks.

 

It sounds like you suck, and they're trying to offer tips to make you suck less. Operative healing is harder, yes. Be in a better position. Line of sight is the strongest DCD an operative has.

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I recomend u to read my previous post, 2nd sentence to be more clear.

Operative healers good balanced and dont need any dcds buffs, and they good in any type of content if you play it right.

 

Exactly my point, u're supposed to die without guard unlike sorc or merc who can handle this without a guard.

 

It sounds like you suck, and they're trying to offer tips to make you suck less. Operative healing is harder, yes. Be in a better position. Line of sight is the strongest DCD an operative has.

 

Again, was asking a question, I get tips and a subtle cute underestimate. I didn't ask if it is hard or easy. I ask what balance is in this class if u have perma stun and almost nothing to counter against cc immunity and low damage reduction compared to a merc or sorc suppression for example. Notice I said "almost nothing".

Edited by ecstazypop
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Exactly my point, u're supposed to die without guard unlike sorc or merc who can handle this without a guard.

 

They cannot. Well mercs can, but not a solo sorc unless he is backed up with his own team. If left alone like your op vs 3 angry dps he will die... just like your op.

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They cannot. Well mercs can, but not a solo sorc unless he is backed up with his own team. If left alone like your op vs 3 angry dps he will die... just like your op.

 

In the context of Regs warzones, Sorc's have the best non tank survivability because they have two resets and consistent escape.

 

Pushing a merc healing through his DCDs takes about 30 seconds,then he dies. Next time he's only got energy shield, and you kill him through that.

 

Sorcs can phase, putting them in a very inconvenient position for DPS to follow. They can put the phase somewhere that they can also regain LoS to their backline fairly quickly. And if that gives you 15 seconds of survivability you've only got to survive another 45 before you can do it again.

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Ops heals is the hardest to play hands down now. As others said and you know, they get globaled easiest. If you miss time your stuns, cc, and kite poorly or sloppily you will die from competent focus DPS.

 

Basically I'd suggest playing a sage/sorc healer it's the most forgiving and easiest/intuitive healing rotation of the healers. Sorc/Sage also have great mobility, and awesome very straight-forward DCDs.

 

If you want a challenge but not as much as Ops healers, try merc heals! I like merc heals probably the best of the three now just because it adds some complexity and also gives you more options to play with utilities. On mando/merc heals you can make a beastly tank healer with strong DCDs, a mobile medic type healer, or a mixture of the two.

 

Personally I lack the situational awareness to go the mobile route so I use the utilities that buff the mandos DCDs and just manage my immunities to interruptions as best I can with my DCDs and I generally am like a crawling heal-fortress. Easy to focus me, but I can take tons of damage and heal through it.

 

Not trying to teach you how to play, or say you are bad, it's just that certain class abilities mesh differently with players and their personal strengths. Some people can micro-manage the HoTs of the Ops healer, and also foresee when they need to kite out of danger and when to use specific CC abilities. It's really a very finesse class and leaves little margin for error when you are up against decent teams.

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Operative healing is the hardest class to play in the game by a long shot. Even above average players will struggle at the class. Unlike Sorc and merc healing operative requires you to be predicting damage and stacking heals on players before they need it. If your not proactive with your healing your playing it wrong. It requires you to have a good understanding of how and when to use dcds effectively and when you can afford to cast team or aoe heal. It also requires great awareness on your positioning and game/class understanding to take it to the next level.

 

There is nothing more you can really say about it. The healing class is just not newbie friendly. That is also why it’s extremely fun to play.

Edited by kissingaiur
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Hello,

Is the operative/scoundrel heal have any effectivity in PvP?

I play regs on DM. This is impossible for me to handle.

While I queue solo, without any premade, when enemy people see me they focus on me instanly, I get focus from 3 people at least, double stun me, kill me instantly, If I unbreak, get netted, if I flash No effect vs mara cc immunity or sin shroud, if I manage to cloak I cloak at same time while I receive my killing blow, etc etc.

Watching my position but if I'm spotted I get nuked and all wz turn into a nightmare to me, and feels like 1v3-4-5 etc. Running from enemy, but their predation always there to come and kill me, while in stun no defense from evasion either.

In team ranked not viable, getting stunned on whitebar, whitebar expires in 10 seconds, then I get stun again, in 10 seconds it's impossible for me to cover all the amount of heal that can I do based on gcd's compared to Merc or Sorc heal, not talking about being consta interrupted and no dmg red in stun.

It's a class hard to master and so easy to kill.

So is it worth this class and spec anymore?

 

Operative healing is extremely good in team ranked. If your being cc chained you need to work on your positioning. Be in LoS of your team but not for example, in LoS of the enemy sniper. Or if the team is running some cleave, stand in cleave to get doted so you can’t be mez chained. One of the major benefits to the class is your HoTs can heal while your cced. Make sure they are always up on your allies.

 

Operative healer is one of the best in team ranked because it can out sustain hps the two other healing classes the longer the match goes. I think your problem is you are just being outplayed.

Edited by kissingaiur
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Operative healing is the hardest class to play in the game by a long shot. Even above average players will struggle at the class. Unlike Sorc and merc healing operative requires you to be predicting damage and stacking heals on players before they need it. If your not proactive with your healing your playing it wrong. It requires you to have a good understanding of how and when to use dcds effectively and when you can afford to cast team or aoe heal. It also requires great awareness on your positioning and game/class understanding to take it to the next level.

 

There is nothing more you can really say about it. The healing class is just not newbie friendly. That is also why it’s extremely fun to play.

 

I think most players seem unable to recognize what they personally are good at and what they are not. Instead of blaming themselves for the struggles on a class, they feel it has to be the class.

 

It took me a long while to understand this about myself and see what classes I was good at and why.

 

Sure, we can work at and practice to improve upon the things we are not good at, but let's be honest most of us hit a ceiling fairly quickly or simply lack the attention to really become "elite" at the game.

 

I just feel like you expressed pretty much what I did, only with more experience behind the class as you main it and I do not.

 

The OP needs to heed the advice and practice a lot on ops heals or change to a more forgiving healing class. :D

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Operative/Scoundrel healers are the only healers without 30% Stun DR. I've brought this up before. And if Hottie is excelling at operative heals in grouped ranked, then he/she is the exception, not the rule.

 

That's not to say you can't be an effective operative healer, but why not play Sage/ Sorc healer, or lethality, or concealment instead. It will be far easier and more meaningful to your team.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Operative/Scoundrel healers are the only healers without 30% Stun DR. I've brought this up before. And if Hottie is excelling at operative heals in grouped ranked, then he/she is the exception, not the rule.

 

That's not to say you can't be an effective operative healer, but why not play Sage/ Sorc healer, or lethality, or concealment instead. It will be far easier and more meaningful to your team.

 

There is multiple successful group ranked and solo ranked operative healers. It's just harder then the other healing classes unlike how easy it is for someone jumping on a sorc for teams and be fine. There is a learning curve when it comes to Oper healing and the more experience you have the better you do.

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There is multiple successful group ranked and solo ranked operative healers. It's just harder then the other healing classes unlike how easy it is for someone jumping on a sorc for teams and be fine. There is a learning curve when it comes to Oper healing and the more experience you have the better you do.

 

Multiple... so there's 3 of you on your entire server? :D

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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There is multiple successful group ranked and solo ranked operative healers. It's just harder then the other healing classes unlike how easy it is for someone jumping on a sorc for teams and be fine. There is a learning curve when it comes to Oper healing and the more experience you have the better you do.

 

Do you think if they were given a utility that offered 30% DR when stunned they would be too powerful? If so, what would you suggest for them to be more in line with the other healers?

 

I don't think it's a fair playing field when it takes the skill of 1% to play the class efficiently. Granted sorc/sage healers are simplified maybe a tad too much, but their abilities and heals are very fluid too.

 

I wish operative healers had more focus on their HoTs tbh, and not so much stand and cast normal heals. I'd even find it more interesting if they had more HoTs attached to their bigger heals, sort of like how EQ2 wardens were. Wardens had more group AE HoTs, single target HoTs than all the other healers I loved that class so much. Warden also did not have to stop and hard cast single target heals much. :p

 

I just find operative healer really odd. On one hand you got to focus so much on their individual HoTs, but then again you got these moments when you got to stop and hard cast heals too. It's very non-synergistic to me.

 

I spent a lot of time on my scoundrel healer recently, going from 65 to 70 in WZs and actually started to find it fun. Took some time to adjust to the style though it's just so different from the other healers. I guess what I am trying to say is the class is very herky-jerky, and non-fluid compared to sorc/sages, and i even find mando heals more fluid.

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There is multiple successful group ranked and solo ranked operative healers. It's just harder then the other healing classes unlike how easy it is for someone jumping on a sorc for teams and be fine. There is a learning curve when it comes to Oper healing and the more experience you have the better you do.

Hell, there was at least one another (GUN_GAME) posting in this very thread. It's not an easy spec to play, but there's a number of excellent ones about.

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Do you think if they were given a utility that offered 30% DR when stunned they would be too powerful? If so, what would you suggest for them to be more in line with the other healers?

 

 

I dont have issues surviving as an op. you just have to learn to be aware of positioning that is it. i think what players hate about the healer is that the class is "fair". there is no "i win button". the cds are fair, the dcds are fair and the healing is the best in the game BUT its hard to maintain.

 

if you play well you get rewarded, if you play badly you get punished.

Edited by kissingaiur
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Operative/Scoundrel healers are the only healers without 30% Stun DR. I've brought this up before. And if Hottie is excelling at operative heals in grouped ranked, then he/she is the exception, not the rule.

 

That's not to say you can't be an effective operative healer, but why not play Sage/ Sorc healer, or lethality, or concealment instead. It will be far easier and more meaningful to your team.

 

No offense to Hottie. She's an excellent healer but there are better Op healers out there. She's not the exception. Exceptions are operative healers that pull 13k hps consistently in group ranked against some of the best teams. There are plenty of good op healers than can pull 8-10k hps. They are the rule. Base your balance changes off them. And right now, I can tell you that operative healing does not need DR. Its in a good spot for players that are good enough and and can play the unique play style.

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I dont have issues surviving as an op. you just have to learn to be aware of positioning that is it. i think what players hate about the healer is that the class is "fair". there is no "i win button". the cds are fair, the dcds are fair and the healing is the best in the game BUT its hard to maintain.

 

if you play well you get rewarded, if you play badly you get punished.

 

Honestly the merc healer is truly the most unforgiving because there simply is no way to disconnect focus completely.

 

I find personally on my mando healer with strong focus even my DCDs are insufficient to manage the damage coming in, there's simply nothing to do but see the end coming and know I am dead.

 

Sorc gets bubble as well as phasewalk which can grant the sorc two lives if played right.

 

Ops healer gets stealth-out-of-combat which gives a 100% chance to escape combat and drop all focus.

 

I agree ops healers are the most complex and difficult healer to play though, and I believe they have the highest ceiling of performance to reach too. That doesn't mean they have no "I-win" button though, because in my eyes they do just as sorc healer does.

 

I just want to point out merc healer has no such escape or "I-win" button.

 

In the past I always likened playing a merc healer to being a lumbering rhino with a pack of lions draped across it's back trying to escape the attack with no real escape to be had. That's how it is for the merc healer, there really is no escaping the assault.

Edited by Lhancelot
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