Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Scoundrel/Operative Healing Guide

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Scoundrel/Operative Healing Guide

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.21.2015 , 12:53 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by AvatarNL View Post
He said why Scondrels/Ops would use Crit/Surge vs Alacrity. Maybe you skimmed over that part too fast.

anyways here's what he said in short:

Its better.

Longer explanation?

We don't need the energy generated from alacrity. Our primary beneficial spells are instant. GCD gains would take WAY too much alacrity to make the GCD drop enough to matter (10% is about 850 alacrity meaning 0.15 seconds). Heals with cast times benefit minimally from alacrity for us. Lastly Cool downs on or heals is plenty short enough to not worry about how Alacrity affects them.
Crit / Surge results in the instant cast spells having a better outcome, the several HoT's we apply provide better outcome.
End result? Crit / Surge combo > Alacrity for Scoundrels / Operatives
Kym is not wrong that Alacrity produces more consistent results for all healers, including scoundrels/operatives. Whether or not you're using instant-cast abilities is completely irrelevant. 1% of alacrity is, very directly, 1% more healing done. It is always 1% more healing done barring lag and player error. Surge is variable in that it raises the standard deviation on your healing output and makes individual heals (most noticeably, big heals) more RNG-dependent.

Also remember that the rate of return on surge drops into the toilet as you start exceeding the 300-400 mark. Alacrity simply provides better HPS returns, point-for-point, than surge does once you start getting to those relative levels (i.e. when surge is around 400 and alacrity is around 100). Better HPS return means higher ceiling on your potential healing output, and since alacrity is providing that HPS in a controlled fashion, a skilled healer will be able to convert 100% of that HPS into eHPS.

This is completely ignoring the most significant factor of alacrity though, which is that it improves the responsiveness of your heals. Being able to do more things faster as a healer means that you can target swap at tighter intervals, shorten your response times to damage, and contract your burst window when needed. This is an ancillary benefit to alacrity that DPS do not get. Thus, alacrity is a fantastic stat on paper when you measure increasing HPS. It's a nearly god-like stat in practice when you combine that with the added control.

Putting it plainly, if you're running a low-alacrity build as a healer, you're doing it wrong. The only exception is if you have an absolutely wretched internet connection and your lag is variable and extreme, since that will wash out any benefits from the time shortening. I highly recommend no less than a 50/50 alacrity-to-surge ratio. Running even more alacrity than this ratio (i.e. a 75/25 ratio) would not be harmful. Crit is to taste, certainly, though I wouldn't go much above 400 (even as a scoundrel), and certainly not above 500.

---

Countering the OP's points more directly… The implication is that alacrity is all about regenerating energy. This makes absolutely zero sense, since alacrity reduces your cast times and GCD duration by exactly the same amount as it increases your regeneration. Thus, the two are in balance. Alacrity is simply a "do everything the same, but faster" stat.

Additionally, the argument has been raised that it's not really practical to get enough alacrity to make a difference on instant cast timings. This argument is based on the fallacy of perception. Sure, you're not fitting in an "extra" GCD in any short time window, but alacrity isn't about fitting in extra GCDs, it's just about doing everything faster. Think about it. This argument is analogous to claiming that power is useless because it would require an impractical amount to double the value of Underworld Medicine. It's not about doubling up; it's about small incremental gains and optimizing those gains.

Alacrity is one of the best stats in the game right now, and the only reason it isn't used more heavily by DPS is because they are constrained to spend a minimum of 6 item slots on accuracy, leaving them so little stat room that surge (with its excellent low-pool rate of returns) plays the dominate role. Healers have no such constraints, and they get additional benefits out of alacrity (i.e. responsiveness and control). There is absolutely no reason to under-stat on alacrity.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

AlphaWolfAHT's Avatar


AlphaWolfAHT
01.21.2015 , 03:08 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Hanebut View Post
Most AOE: 8 medpac rotation:
This style of healing is what I normally test out every fight with. Keeping 8 medpacs on an entire group is the hardest thing about scoundrel to master and requires your other healer to be more main tank heal oriented (perfect for healing with a sage). However doing this will pump the most hps out of scoundrel as possible.
This, this, and this. I find that many scoundrels pre-3.0 had this rotation down for the entire fight. With the new damage phases, burn phases, and healing profiles, realistically keeping this rotation going for an entire encounter is foolish. It was foolish then and now it is even more foolish.

Your healing situations seem spot on! Thanks!

TL;DR: Scoundrels were nerfed because we can't SRMP/KC/KP our way through NiM battles anymore. We now need someone with a brain behind that screen. =)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xaefe of the Kobra Kais, Begeren Colony
Progression Healer

Rakii's Avatar


Rakii
01.21.2015 , 03:46 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Kym is not wrong that Alacrity produces more consistent results for all healers, including scoundrels/operatives. Whether or not you're using instant-cast abilities is completely irrelevant. 1% of alacrity is, very directly, 1% more healing done. It is always 1% more healing done barring lag and player error. Surge is variable in that it raises the standard deviation on your healing output and makes individual heals (most noticeably, big heals) more RNG-dependent.

Also remember that the rate of return on surge drops into the toilet as you start exceeding the 300-400 mark. Alacrity simply provides better HPS returns, point-for-point, than surge does once you start getting to those relative levels (i.e. when surge is around 400 and alacrity is around 100). Better HPS return means higher ceiling on your potential healing output, and since alacrity is providing that HPS in a controlled fashion, a skilled healer will be able to convert 100% of that HPS into eHPS.

This is completely ignoring the most significant factor of alacrity though, which is that it improves the responsiveness of your heals. Being able to do more things faster as a healer means that you can target swap at tighter intervals, shorten your response times to damage, and contract your burst window when needed. This is an ancillary benefit to alacrity that DPS do not get. Thus, alacrity is a fantastic stat on paper when you measure increasing HPS. It's a nearly god-like stat in practice when you combine that with the added control.

Putting it plainly, if you're running a low-alacrity build as a healer, you're doing it wrong. The only exception is if you have an absolutely wretched internet connection and your lag is variable and extreme, since that will wash out any benefits from the time shortening. I highly recommend no less than a 50/50 alacrity-to-surge ratio. Running even more alacrity than this ratio (i.e. a 75/25 ratio) would not be harmful. Crit is to taste, certainly, though I wouldn't go much above 400 (even as a scoundrel), and certainly not above 500.

---

Countering the OP's points more directly… The implication is that alacrity is all about regenerating energy. This makes absolutely zero sense, since alacrity reduces your cast times and GCD duration by exactly the same amount as it increases your regeneration. Thus, the two are in balance. Alacrity is simply a "do everything the same, but faster" stat.

Additionally, the argument has been raised that it's not really practical to get enough alacrity to make a difference on instant cast timings. This argument is based on the fallacy of perception. Sure, you're not fitting in an "extra" GCD in any short time window, but alacrity isn't about fitting in extra GCDs, it's just about doing everything faster. Think about it. This argument is analogous to claiming that power is useless because it would require an impractical amount to double the value of Underworld Medicine. It's not about doubling up; it's about small incremental gains and optimizing those gains.

Alacrity is one of the best stats in the game right now, and the only reason it isn't used more heavily by DPS is because they are constrained to spend a minimum of 6 item slots on accuracy, leaving them so little stat room that surge (with its excellent low-pool rate of returns) plays the dominate role. Healers have no such constraints, and they get additional benefits out of alacrity (i.e. responsiveness and control). There is absolutely no reason to under-stat on alacrity.
Wow, what a fantastic and awesome read.

I feel much more confident in my own choices having gone the heavy alacrity route with a 80% alacrity / 20% surge ratio. Sitting at a flat 10.00% alacrity increase, I can simply feel how the whole class awakes.
Especially for scoundrels/operatives with alot of micromanaging diffrent hots and channels, its nice to have that "feel" that the class plays more smoothly.

I also think im ready to push into the 450ish with crit, atleast to see how it pans out, can always revert it if i dont like it.

Thanks for the input.

Vaeranus's Avatar


Vaeranus
01.22.2015 , 09:43 AM | #14
First off, I have to say that I respect anyone who has the cajones to put one of these guides together. I think the achievements of the OP give a lot of weight to his methodology. And thanks as usual to KBN for stepping in with the mathy goodness.

I only bring these things up so we can have a discussion on the best usage of the class. I play Operative, so sorry if the verbiage is not spot on. And this was definitely an easier route in 2.x, but I think 3.x requires a more selective and savvy Op.

Is spamming Probes still the most effective use of this class? With the new updates, Surgical Probe no refreshes the timer on any applied probes, and at a cheaper cost. Wouldn't this prove counterproductive by spamming the probes round-and-round? Would it be better to be more selective as to who you are putting them on, and have more time to use the other heals? I would say definitely tanks, and then 2 others based on mechanics of fight. This would give you 8 Probes ticking with a 30% chance to grant TA, so there should be no shortage of TA's coming in.

Also, I thought the Probe ticks 30% is irrelevant to what your crit ratio is. Being that this is not necessarily our bread and butter anymore, but we still rely on it, be more reason to go with a lower crit? I've always been someone who favors a higher crit when it allows, but I think I'm going to go more alacrity instead for a bit.

Kolto Infusion took a big step up here in terms of worthiness in the toolbox. The 45s buff provided makes it a must to keep up on tanks. I usually cast this and Recuperative Nanotech, which receives another 45s buff, and rotate on the tanks and mêlée DPS or those who are usually mechanically unsound. Would you say this to be to be the best use, or maybe use differently?

Kolto Injection I now only use with the proc from the set bonus.. Is everyone else thinking the same?

With a lot of the fights being stack-prohibitive, what would be the minimum you would use the new Kolto Waves? I do at least 3, but try to hit it with 5 or save it.

Thanks to all for your input, nth before and after this post.
Old Timers Guild


La'tradictus - Operative Heísenburg - Mercenary Vengeanz - Sorceror

Rakii's Avatar


Rakii
01.22.2015 , 10:17 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaeranus View Post
Also, I thought the Probe ticks 30% is irrelevant to what your crit ratio is. Being that this is not necessarily our bread and butter anymore, but we still rely on it, be more reason to go with a lower crit? I've always been someone who favors a higher crit when it allows, but I think I'm going to go more alacrity instead for a bit.
Luckily you dont have to make that choice, since alacrity and crit doesnt share stat pool.

mydogclimbstree's Avatar


mydogclimbstree
01.22.2015 , 10:54 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaeranus View Post
I would say definitely tanks, and then 2 others based on mechanics of fight. This would give you 8 Probes ticking with a 30% chance to grant TA, so there should be no shortage of TA's coming in.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Also, whenever possible, I use EMP to refresh instead of SRMP, so that I get the +Healing buff from spending an UH/TA (plus it is cheaper and has a heal component).

Quote: Originally Posted by Vaeranus View Post
Also, I thought the Probe ticks 30% is irrelevant to what your crit ratio is. Being that this is not necessarily our bread and butter anymore, but we still rely on it, be more reason to go with a lower crit? I've always been someone who favors a higher crit when it allows, but I think I'm going to go more alacrity instead for a bit.
This is my thought as well. I've really backed off on crit for my scoundrels/ops. Not on my commandos though, since they have the surge talents in the healing tree.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vaeranus View Post
Kolto Infusion took a big step up here in terms of worthiness in the toolbox. The 45s buff provided makes it a must to keep up on tanks. I usually cast this and Recuperative Nanotech, which receives another 45s buff, and rotate on the tanks and mêlée DPS or those who are usually mechanically unsound. Would you say this to be to be the best use, or maybe use differently?
I try to keep both buffs on the tanks and on anyone that I know will take a lot of damage (melee on HM Torque, barrel carrier for Bulo, etc...) This is pretty manageable, and since you aren't using them on CD, you have them available for quick saves of accidental or unexpected damage. I always KP, then KC for the extra +healing buff on the AoE heal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vaeranus View Post
Kolto Injection I now only use with the proc from the set bonus.. Is everyone else thinking the same?
I really need to work on this. Thanks for the reminder.
Kym- Healer of Phil

cs_zoltan's Avatar


cs_zoltan
01.22.2015 , 12:18 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Kym is not wrong that Alacrity produces more consistent results for all healers, including scoundrels/operatives. Whether or not you're using instant-cast abilities is completely irrelevant. 1% of alacrity is, very directly, 1% more healing done. It is always 1% more healing done barring lag and player error. Surge is variable in that it raises the standard deviation on your healing output and makes individual heals (most noticeably, big heals) more RNG-dependent.

Also remember that the rate of return on surge drops into the toilet as you start exceeding the 300-400 mark. Alacrity simply provides better HPS returns, point-for-point, than surge does once you start getting to those relative levels (i.e. when surge is around 400 and alacrity is around 100). Better HPS return means higher ceiling on your potential healing output, and since alacrity is providing that HPS in a controlled fashion, a skilled healer will be able to convert 100% of that HPS into eHPS.

This is completely ignoring the most significant factor of alacrity though, which is that it improves the responsiveness of your heals. Being able to do more things faster as a healer means that you can target swap at tighter intervals, shorten your response times to damage, and contract your burst window when needed. This is an ancillary benefit to alacrity that DPS do not get. Thus, alacrity is a fantastic stat on paper when you measure increasing HPS. It's a nearly god-like stat in practice when you combine that with the added control.

Putting it plainly, if you're running a low-alacrity build as a healer, you're doing it wrong. The only exception is if you have an absolutely wretched internet connection and your lag is variable and extreme, since that will wash out any benefits from the time shortening. I highly recommend no less than a 50/50 alacrity-to-surge ratio. Running even more alacrity than this ratio (i.e. a 75/25 ratio) would not be harmful. Crit is to taste, certainly, though I wouldn't go much above 400 (even as a scoundrel), and certainly not above 500.

---

Countering the OP's points more directly… The implication is that alacrity is all about regenerating energy. This makes absolutely zero sense, since alacrity reduces your cast times and GCD duration by exactly the same amount as it increases your regeneration. Thus, the two are in balance. Alacrity is simply a "do everything the same, but faster" stat.

Additionally, the argument has been raised that it's not really practical to get enough alacrity to make a difference on instant cast timings. This argument is based on the fallacy of perception. Sure, you're not fitting in an "extra" GCD in any short time window, but alacrity isn't about fitting in extra GCDs, it's just about doing everything faster. Think about it. This argument is analogous to claiming that power is useless because it would require an impractical amount to double the value of Underworld Medicine. It's not about doubling up; it's about small incremental gains and optimizing those gains.

Alacrity is one of the best stats in the game right now, and the only reason it isn't used more heavily by DPS is because they are constrained to spend a minimum of 6 item slots on accuracy, leaving them so little stat room that surge (with its excellent low-pool rate of returns) plays the dominate role. Healers have no such constraints, and they get additional benefits out of alacrity (i.e. responsiveness and control). There is absolutely no reason to under-stat on alacrity.
I nabbed this for my Merc debate. Looks like people don't believe me when I say the exact same thing :/

Kantalahir's Avatar


Kantalahir
01.23.2015 , 03:46 AM | #18
Keja, for some unknown reason people believe crit is sexy and alacrity is dumb....like crit is a dangerous thing making you look Sylvester Stallone

Kantalahir's Avatar


Kantalahir
01.23.2015 , 03:56 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaeranus View Post
First off, I have to say that I respect anyone who has the cajones to put one of these guides together. I think the achievements of the OP give a lot of weight to his methodology. And thanks as usual to KBN for stepping in with the mathy goodness.

I only bring these things up so we can have a discussion on the best usage of the class. I play Operative, so sorry if the verbiage is not spot on. And this was definitely an easier route in 2.x, but I think 3.x requires a more selective and savvy Op.

Is spamming Probes still the most effective use of this class? With the new updates, Surgical Probe no refreshes the timer on any applied probes, and at a cheaper cost. Wouldn't this prove counterproductive by spamming the probes round-and-round? Would it be better to be more selective as to who you are putting them on, and have more time to use the other heals? I would say definitely tanks, and then 2 others based on mechanics of fight. This would give you 8 Probes ticking with a 30% chance to grant TA, so there should be no shortage of TA's coming in.

Also, I thought the Probe ticks 30% is irrelevant to what your crit ratio is. Being that this is not necessarily our bread and butter anymore, but we still rely on it, be more reason to go with a lower crit? I've always been someone who favors a higher crit when it allows, but I think I'm going to go more alacrity instead for a bit.

Kolto Infusion took a big step up here in terms of worthiness in the toolbox. The 45s buff provided makes it a must to keep up on tanks. I usually cast this and Recuperative Nanotech, which receives another 45s buff, and rotate on the tanks and mêlée DPS or those who are usually mechanically unsound. Would you say this to be to be the best use, or maybe use differently?

Kolto Injection I now only use with the proc from the set bonus.. Is everyone else thinking the same?

With a lot of the fights being stack-prohibitive, what would be the minimum you would use the new Kolto Waves? I do at least 3, but try to hit it with 5 or save it.

Thanks to all for your input, nth before and after this post.
I can't see a fight where keeping probes on all is needed. Refreshing the probes on all people is almost taking all APMs so we become unable to use other heals. This will put enormous pressure on the other healer.

If we look at our actions per minute aka APM (especially with high crit) and then compute how many times we will need to refresh the 16 probes on 8 people we will see that APM will be severely exhausted. Given that half of the probes will be refreshed with clicking the same skill it means we use a skill which in a way doesn't heal on use.

If your raid is not full of rDPS who are also idiots using the two AOE heals give much, much better healing output that spamming probes on everyone.

A reasonable healer will strive for effective healing. Doing 8kHPS with 50% EHPS is worse that 6KHPS with 85% EHPS. Overhealing means only that a healer doesn't know who and when to heal. If overhealing a fight is natural --> DPS

Hanebut's Avatar


Hanebut
01.24.2015 , 12:47 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaeranus View Post

Is spamming Probes still the most effective use of this class? With the new updates, Surgical Probe no refreshes the timer on any applied probes, and at a cheaper cost. Wouldn't this prove counterproductive by spamming the probes round-and-round? Would it be better to be more selective as to who you are putting them on, and have more time to use the other heals? I would say definitely tanks, and then 2 others based on mechanics of fight. This would give you 8 Probes ticking with a 30% chance to grant TA, so there should be no shortage of TA's coming in.

Also, I thought the Probe ticks 30% is irrelevant to what your crit ratio is. Being that this is not necessarily our bread and butter anymore, but we still rely on it, be more reason to go with a lower crit? I've always been someone who favors a higher crit when it allows, but I think I'm going to go more alacrity instead for a bit.

Kolto Infusion took a big step up here in terms of worthiness in the toolbox. The 45s buff provided makes it a must to keep up on tanks. I usually cast this and Recuperative Nanotech, which receives another 45s buff, and rotate on the tanks and mêlée DPS or those who are usually mechanically unsound. Would you say this to be to be the best use, or maybe use differently?

Kolto Injection I now only use with the proc from the set bonus.. Is everyone else thinking the same?

With a lot of the fights being stack-prohibitive, what would be the minimum you would use the new Kolto Waves? I do at least 3, but try to hit it with 5 or save it.

Thanks to all for your input, nth before and after this post.
Yes, the guide was intended to come off as you refresh the medpacs with your emergency medpac if the person is below 100 and you have more than 1 upper hand. As for keeping 8 slow release medpacs on the whole group or just 2 that is a call you need to make as a healer. for most fights in SM and a few fights in HM i really only keep 2. However my default style for new fights is to keep 8. take for instance HM Master/Blaster, it would be horrendous for you to keep 8 medpacs up on the whole group when they only take small burst damage the whole fight. But HM Bulo or HM Malaphar it is extremely benefitial to keep most of the group ready to take damage (especially of your group just loves to stand in circles).

I am doing the calculations on the % alacrity and % surge drop off rates in 198 gear today and will repost the most optimal balanced build later today.

If you have any questions feel free to ask