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Some thoughts on possible Operative DPS changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Some thoughts on possible Operative DPS changes

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.03.2016 , 10:14 AM | #21
Well their AoE damage clearly doesn't work, and they're in a pretty bad spot PvEwise.
Really the only places they do well is solo ranked and unranked warzones, because in group ranked they're pretty mediocre as well.

QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
07.03.2016 , 02:36 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Well their AoE damage clearly doesn't work, and they're in a pretty bad spot PvEwise.
Really the only places they do well is solo ranked and unranked warzones, because in group ranked they're pretty mediocre as well.
And I'd say they're only useful in solo ranked when there's no healer on either team, and that's really just because they can offheal friendlies quite easily and are tanky enough to stay alive, for the most part. Damage output is trash, though.
Arvengis | Akanias Taleri | Mhyrah | Arcuneth | Tol'ika
Arteum | Celden

The Ebon Hawk <Nerf Operatives> Youtube Channel

Chainedbrooklyn's Avatar


Chainedbrooklyn
07.03.2016 , 03:11 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by QuiveringPotato View Post
And I'd say they're only useful in solo ranked when there's no healer on either team, and that's really just because they can offheal friendlies quite easily and are tanky enough to stay alive, for the most part. Damage output is trash, though.
Wait wait wait wait wait, so operatives are only good when they have a trinity comp as you said earlier... but they're also only good when there is no trinity comp and all dps.... But only for their heals and survivabilty...but like if they can heal and survive I'm sure operatives deal damage in between all the running around...I don't think the damage is trash.. I mean it's clear the damage isn't total garbage all the time right.. Wot
Elite Warlord Galvik Kohr - Concealment Operative

Galvic Kohr - Scrapper Scoundrel

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
07.03.2016 , 03:22 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Chainedbrooklyn View Post
Wait wait wait wait wait, so operatives are only good when they have a trinity comp as you said earlier... but they're also only good when there is no trinity comp and all dps.... But only for their heals and survivabilty...but like if they can heal and survive I'm sure operatives deal damage in between all the running around...I don't think the damage is trash.. I mean it's clear the damage isn't total garbage all the time right.. Wot
Dude... I don't know of many people who spec to dps in hope to tank and heal. Do you?

With trinity, ops can deal damage since they don't need to roll all over the place. Without, they're good because they're annoying mofos and are hard to kill - but thats not what most people take dps for.

Chainedbrooklyn's Avatar


Chainedbrooklyn
07.03.2016 , 03:47 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
Dude... I don't know of many people who spec to dps in hope to tank and heal. Do you?

With trinity, ops can deal damage since they don't need to roll all over the place. Without, they're good because they're annoying mofos and are hard to kill - but thats not what most people take dps for.
I'm not sure why everyone feels that the moment an operative plays by himself, he's only good to be annoying. Now granted operatives playing alone are not going to be wiping the floor with people and topping the damage leaderboards but they can certainly contribute in the way they're built to...and if that's sitting there tearing a healer away from the group making him heal himself or just poking holes into their opponents then so be it. That's the job. If people want to play a class that is meant to sit there and tear through crowds of opponents then they can do that but not with this class.
Elite Warlord Galvik Kohr - Concealment Operative

Galvic Kohr - Scrapper Scoundrel

QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
07.03.2016 , 05:27 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Chainedbrooklyn View Post
I'm not sure why everyone feels that the moment an operative plays by himself, he's only good to be annoying. Now granted operatives playing alone are not going to be wiping the floor with people and topping the damage leaderboards but they can certainly contribute in the way they're built to...and if that's sitting there tearing a healer away from the group making him heal himself or just poking holes into their opponents then so be it. That's the job. If people want to play a class that is meant to sit there and tear through crowds of opponents then they can do that but not with this class.
Most decent sage healers can all but ignore a single operative DPS; they're only an issue when there are also other DPS attacking them, and I'd say only because of Operative's CC.

Many of Operative's "good" tactics in warzones only work on either idiots, or uncoordinated people. You cannot stall a cap, or defend a node for a long time against people who know what they're doing, and additionally, you're not going to have NEARLY the same uptime you'd get on say, a Marauder, against a premade.
Arvengis | Akanias Taleri | Mhyrah | Arcuneth | Tol'ika
Arteum | Celden

The Ebon Hawk <Nerf Operatives> Youtube Channel

QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
07.03.2016 , 05:29 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
Dude... I don't know of many people who spec to dps in hope to tank and heal. Do you?

With trinity, ops can deal damage since they don't need to roll all over the place. Without, they're good because they're annoying mofos and are hard to kill - but thats not what most people take dps for.
Yeah, lol. Personally, I kind of enjoy the "hybrid" feel our class has, but I don't think it should be to the extent it is now. I never really feel like a threat like I used to around 2.10 when I could wipe someone out in 4-5 seconds. Granted, TTK was way lower back then, but even so, my damage is laughable against competent targets, and even in 1v1s against good players, the only way you're winning is by outlasting them. Operative DPS just does not feel like a DPS, currently.
Arvengis | Akanias Taleri | Mhyrah | Arcuneth | Tol'ika
Arteum | Celden

The Ebon Hawk <Nerf Operatives> Youtube Channel

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
07.04.2016 , 12:51 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Chainedbrooklyn View Post
I'm not sure why everyone feels that the moment an operative plays by himself, he's only good to be annoying. Now granted operatives playing alone are not going to be wiping the floor with people and topping the damage leaderboards but they can certainly contribute in the way they're built to...and if that's sitting there tearing a healer away from the group making him heal himself or just poking holes into their opponents then so be it. That's the job. If people want to play a class that is meant to sit there and tear through crowds of opponents then they can do that but not with this class.
Looks like this has been covered. The only threat a single op is to any sage/sorc is stunning him all the time... You're not killing them unless they're incompetent, and they're going to heal their teammates without even trying

Edit: just to be clear, I'm a mediocre scoundrel and slightly above mediocre sage healer. This might seem like a bad thing, but I think I'm in a good position to post my feelings on the class this way. Great ops will pull numbers, but so will great plasmatechs, or great IO mercs, etc.. As a mediocre op I can't do that, but I also find it incredibly easy to survive pressure, compared to any other class I play.

As a mediocre sage I can say ops don't pose a threat alone. I have enough kiting tools that they will spend most of their time chasing me, and healing is not a problem vs. their current burst.

Chainedbrooklyn's Avatar


Chainedbrooklyn
07.04.2016 , 09:51 AM | #29
I don't think I've ever had a healing sage, good or bad, ignore me completely in a war zone before. Whether it's the player going out of their way to get rid of me or them telling their teammates to start pressuring me, they always notice and something comes out of it where my team can benefit. The healer stopping me directly prevents him from healing his team or him calling his teammates over to tunnel me allows my own team to do what they need to while I keep my opponents entertained.

Never, never have I seen a healer just shrug me off like a fly. Something always happens. If you want to consider the sage ignoring me while their team switches to me ignoring I guess I can see what you mean. There's always some sort of impact made.

I could be looking at this whole thing the wrong way because after playing for so long I stopped seeing operative as a meaningful dps class and more as that one class that doesn't seem to go with the flow and all that. But then yknow at the same time I feel like it does fine damage for what it's meant to be.
Elite Warlord Galvik Kohr - Concealment Operative

Galvic Kohr - Scrapper Scoundrel

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
07.04.2016 , 10:46 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Chainedbrooklyn View Post
I don't think I've ever had a healing sage, good or bad, ignore me completely in a war zone before. Whether it's the player going out of their way to get rid of me or them telling their teammates to start pressuring me, they always notice and something comes out of it where my team can benefit. The healer stopping me directly prevents him from healing his team or him calling his teammates over to tunnel me allows my own team to do what they need to while I keep my opponents entertained.

Never, never have I seen a healer just shrug me off like a fly. Something always happens. If you want to consider the sage ignoring me while their team switches to me ignoring I guess I can see what you mean. There's always some sort of impact made.

I could be looking at this whole thing the wrong way because after playing for so long I stopped seeing operative as a meaningful dps class and more as that one class that doesn't seem to go with the flow and all that. But then yknow at the same time I feel like it does fine damage for what it's meant to be.
First of all, I disagree with your first point. Sage healers do not need peels from a single op, unless that op is exceptional and they are sub-par. I wouldn't say I ignore a single op as a healer, but I wouldn't say a single op can prevent me from healing my teammates either. You can stun me quite often, but that's it. Your burst is easily countered by trivial heals, and wandering mend/salvation heal my team without my even trying. You have to be careful to avoid my bubble stun, and PW/force speed/root knockback provide more than adequate kiting tools. No, I wouldn't ignore you, but a well played mara/PT/merc will cause much more damage to my healing. Even without CC.

You see ops as an objective class. That's fine, but it's unfair to both other classes and ops themselves. Unfair to other classes, because they will always be at a disadvantage against an equally skilled op in a warzone. Unfair to ops themselves, because it limits their play to certain tactics only, as opposed to any other class (which can do them all in varying degrees of success).

Not all classes need to be equal, but giving other classes more equal footing objective-wise, and giving ops more in ways of dps and other skillsets is a good idea in my opinion.

As a side note - op skill ceiling is high for best performance, but at medioce preformance you still have over the top survivability. Adjusting this so that survivability requires more awareness and rewards good players with higher dps would be a welcome change both to people who enjoy playing ops, and to people who enjiy whining about them.