Back in late 4.x, my prog raid guild fell apart and I turned to pvp'ing full time once again. Once I had full legacy gear on my main mirror toons, I unsubbed and queued with my pvp guild groups (off and on during the course of early 5.x). This wasn't because of the money, it was a means to express my dissatisfaction with the direction of the game.

 

Fast forward to today, how viable is pvp'ing without a subscription? Assuming you subbed long enough to gear some toons in 246+. Is the gear treadmill a means of forcing pure pvp'ers to sub? Is there any other reason for a pvp'er to sub?

 

EDIT: Inserted runner emoji to thread title for maximum thread effectiveness. 🏃

Edited November 7, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

I dunno... I have gear on some toons and on some of the others I have average gear. I can't say that there's no difference because there is but not enough for me to care.

As the leader of a primarily PvP guild - most of us sub. This change is not causing the people we lost to come back; rather its pushing more away. Thus, if the desire was to force subs, in my guild it totally failed.

It’s a bit hard to reliably pvp if you aren’t a sub. It requires you to find some sub who is willing to group with you to take you in.

Most pvpers are subs.

As the leader of a primarily PvP guild - most of us sub. This change is not causing the people we lost to come back; rather its pushing more away. Thus, if the desire was to force subs, in my guild it totally failed.

 

It’s the same theory they used for 5.0. Apparently pvpers needed a reason to play longer, so they removed pvp gear and added RNG grind.

Somewhere along the way they forgot that pvpers didn’t need a reason to play longer or stay subbed. We’d already been doing that for 4 years.

All the 5.0 grind did was make people unsub or play less.

All the 5.10 grind will do is make more people unsub or play less.

Bioware are incapable of learning from past mistakes. That is why this game is on a steep decline.

As the leader of a primarily PvP guild - most of us sub. This change is not causing the people we lost to come back; rather its pushing more away. Thus, if the desire was to force subs, in my guild it totally failed.

 

Yes this is true. It is back then with Galactic Command. The people unsub from the Game. All types of players unsub. StoryICasual/Raiders/PVP players unsub massive

 

But this time the PVP players have the biggest problems with gearing.

 

Back to topic

 

The most pure PVP players that i know have a sub. A big reason is you can play when your friends are not online or they have a raid or they doing other stuff in the game.

I don't care for it but I put up with it because imo TOR still has the best pvp of any MMO out there. BfA is a burning dumpster in many ways and Blizz's intent to shift toward mobile might just swear me off their games forever, GW2's pvp is extremely meta and the maps are boring and all the same, everybody uses the same 4 or 5 builds in ESO because that's all that's viable, and FFXIV's is a joke between the netcode and many other issues. Edited November 7, 2018 by Stncold

Is there any other reason for a pvp'er to sub?

There's the obvious reason to help financially support the game.

There's the obvious reason to help financially support the game.

 

ba dum tishhhh /rimshot

There's the obvious reason to help financially support the game.

 

It's interesting how people need to be reminded that EA and Bioware are companies which require resources to develop new games and pay salaries to their employees, as well as having shareholders who have invested into the company, often at great risk, and who now expects profits.

 

There are multiple free to play games built around a non-profit model, swtor, however, is not one of them.

It's interesting how people need to be reminded that EA and Bioware are companies which require resources to develop new games and pay salaries to their employees, as well as having shareholders who have invested into the company, often at great risk, and who now expects profits.

 

There are multiple free to play games built around a non-profit model, swtor, however, is not one of them.

 

They are not a charity, if they don’t provide a product worth buying then they don’t deserve their customers money.

3 reasons.. first as a sub you don't have to group with another person to queue after a few matches. Handy for those of us who play when many guildies are sleeping. Two-gear. Only subs can use legendary gear. Three.. it helps fund the game and honestly it's 15 bucks. Id happily pay double that.. right now it's 50 cents a day if you play daily.. that's cheaper than an arcade game down at the bar.

It’s the same theory they used for 5.0. Apparently pvpers needed a reason to play longer, so they removed pvp gear and added RNG grind.

Somewhere along the way they forgot that pvpers didn’t need a reason to play longer or stay subbed. We’d already been doing that for 4 years.

All the 5.0 grind did was make people unsub or play less.

All the 5.10 grind will do is make more people unsub or play less.

Bioware are incapable of learning from past mistakes. That is why this game is on a steep decline.

 

Probably this. I would have thought they wouldn't repeat the same mistakes they've made in the past but I'm not sure anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to make this game unpalatable so players go to Anthem.

I've been a subscriber for about 6 years now, since day 1, and today is my last day. I currently identify myself as a "pure PvP player", though I will dabble in the occasional PvE activity for things like SH decos (most of which I have).

 

I subscribed initially because there was no F2P model in the beginning when the game was released. Later, when F2P was introduced, I continued to subscribe because the Preferred and F2P models nickel and dime you to death to do the same activity. My guild also did both progression PvE and PvP, and I didn't want to be restricted in terms of what I could do, how often I could do it, or what gear I could wear.

 

During the content famine that followed, I remained a subscriber because while I wasn't particularly satisfied with the relatively sparse and contentious content they released (e.g. the Zakuul story arc), my subscription provided me unlimited access to everything else in the game I still enjoyed. My guild also shifted its focus to PvP, at which point PvP became my predominant activity in the game. Again, I kept my subscription active because I didn't want to be limited in my chosen game activity.

 

My sub ends today, but not because of 5.10. I had already decided to leave the game before the details of that were known, but as the specifics of T5 gearing came to light, it only reaffirmed my decision. As for my reasons for leaving the game, I've stated those elsewhere so I won't rehash them here. My personal decision aside, the game has been resource starved for years now and continues to make some very poor design decisions that are arguably a result of their economy of resources. If I was staying, it wouldn't be for the "content", nor would it be for another craptastic gear grind - it would be for the people I play with. As most of them have already left the game, my most compelling reason to continue playing this game has gone with them.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Mournblood

I've been a subscriber for about 6 years now, since day 1, and today is my last day. I currently identify myself as a "pure PvP player", though I will dabble in the occasional PvE activity for things like SH decos (most of which I have).

 

I subscribed initially because there was no F2P model in the beginning when the game was released. Later, when F2P was introduced, I continued to subscribe because the Preferred and F2P models nickel and dime you to death to do the same activity. My guild also did both progression PvE and PvP, and I didn't want to be restricted in terms of what I could do, how often I could do it, or what gear I could wear.

 

During the content famine that followed, I remained a subscriber because while I wasn't particularly satisfied with the relatively sparse and contentious content they released (e.g. the Zakuul story arc), my subscription provided me unlimited access to everything else in the game I still enjoyed. My guild also shifted its focus to PvP, at which point PvP became my predominant activity in the game. Again, I kept my subscription active because I didn't want to be limited in my chosen game activity.

 

My sub ends today, but not because of 5.10. I had already decided to leave the game before the details of that were known, but as the specifics of T5 gearing came to light, it only reaffirmed my decision. As for my reasons for leaving the game, I've stated those elsewhere so I won't rehash them here. My personal decision aside, the game has been resource starved for years now and continues to make some very poor design decisions that are arguably a result of their economy of resources. If I was staying, it wouldn't be for the "content", nor would it be for another craptastic gear grind - it would be for the people I play with. As most of them have already left the game, my most compelling reason to continue playing this game has gone with them.

I'm sorry to see you go...I hope you return someday soon...

I'm sorry to see you go...I hope you return someday soon...

 

Yeah it sucks when people like this leave the game I hope they reconsider the gearing for 5.10 so people will rethink their departure.

Probably this. I would have thought they wouldn't repeat the same mistakes they've made in the past but I'm not sure anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to make this game unpalatable so players go to Anthem.

 

I won’t be touching Anthem on principle, even if it’s a good game. The way EAware have treated this game and the player has over the years has put me right off playing any other games they make.

The only reason I’m still playing swtor is because it’s SW. If it was any other IP, I would have been long gone.

Yeah it sucks when people like this leave the game I hope they reconsider the gearing for 5.10 so people will rethink their departure.

 

Same. Too many long term people have finally thrown in the towel and we never get people to replace them.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Totemdancer

I won’t be touching Anthem on principle, even if it’s a good game. The way EAware have treated this game and the player has over the years has put me right off playing any other games they make.

The only reason I’m still playing swtor is because it’s SW. If it was any other IP, I would have been long gone.

Probably most of us feel like this, or at least the people who can really see and understand what EAware are doing.

Probably most of us feel like this, or at least the people who can really see and understand what EAware are doing.

 

The worst thing to happen to Bioware was EA buying them. According to an interview with one of the original producers of swtor, when EA took over, they had to change their direction with swtor and make it fit a WoW mould and abondon some of the better ideas.

I think that’s why swtor failed or missed its potential at launch (in the eyes of EA) because EA stuck their nose into it and made Bioware change the Developement.

 

EA are renouned for buying out good studios or IPs and turning them to **** because they stick their sticky little fingers into developement to squeeze a quick profit out of it. They have no long term view on things. The executives just want to make their bonuses for that quarter/half year and if the share holders are happy with the profit, then they don’t care.

There is no long term strategy to make a game great and bring in more revenue over a longer period. They run games on the smell of an oily rag and don’t reinvest properly.

 

EAs business approach to making money is to continuously cut costs to boost profit. That and loot boxes . They don’t realise or maybe don’t care that it cuts their long term revenue. That’s not how you grow a business, it’s how you run it into the ground. Their slash and burn strategy has been detrimental to the whole industry.

 

If Anthem doesn’t make EAs $$ target in the first month, it will be declared a failure even if it could be a good long term earner. That will probably be the end of Bioware.

 

Look at this game. It’s Star Wars and EA don’t care to make it great. Seriously, it’s one of the biggest IPs in the world and should have a tonne of talent and resources to make this game fanatastic. Instead they fired or pulled most of the best talent from the game and just let it die off from lack of resources.

 

If EA just purchased the successful Studios and didn’t touch them, but left them alone to be successful, then they would have even more money for their shareholders and we would still have some really good IPs, games and studios around to make them.

 

EA have been a c**cer on the industry for 20+ years and it’s why the quality of so many game are rubbish these days.

The only good quality ones released seem to be from independent or small studios. Sadly, EA are probably eyeing these off too and will buy some in the future and gut them too.

The worst thing to happen to Bioware was EA buying them. According to an interview with one of the original producers of swtor, when EA took over, they had to change their direction with swtor and make it fit a WoW mould and abondon some of the better ideas.

I think that’s why swtor failed or missed its potential at launch (in the eyes of EA) because EA stuck their nose into it and made Bioware change the Developement.

 

EA are renouned for buying out good studios or IPs and turning them to **** because they stick their sticky little fingers into developement to squeeze a quick profit out of it. They have no long term view on things. The executives just want to make their bonuses for that quarter/half year and if the share holders are happy with the profit, then they don’t care.

There is no long term strategy to make a game great and bring in more revenue over a longer period. They run games on the smell of an oily rag and don’t reinvest properly.

 

EAs business approach to making money is to continuously cut costs to boost profit. That and loot boxes . They don’t realise or maybe don’t care that it cuts their long term revenue. That’s not how you grow a business, it’s how you run it into the ground. Their slash and burn strategy has been detrimental to the whole industry.

 

If Anthem doesn’t make EAs $$ target in the first month, it will be declared a failure even if it could be a good long term earner. That will probably be the end of Bioware.

 

Look at this game. It’s Star Wars and EA don’t care to make it great. Seriously, it’s one of the biggest IPs in the world and should have a tonne of talent and resources to make this game fanatastic. Instead they fired or pulled most of the best talent from the game and just let it die off from lack of resources.

 

If EA just purchased the successful Studios and didn’t touch them, but left them alone to be successful, then they would have even more money for their shareholders and we would still have some really good IPs, games and studios around to make them.

 

EA have been a c**cer on the industry for 20+ years and it’s why the quality of so many game are rubbish these days.

The only good quality ones released seem to be from independent or small studios. Sadly, EA are probably eyeing these off too and will buy some in the future and gut them too.

 

EA can go Frim themselves.

 

This is all their fault.

 

Who the hell doesn't give a Star Wars MMO proper resources to allow it to grow to its potential with a great Game provider?

 

You skimp out on friggen Star Wars for some stupid and rediculously unneeded space genre game.

 

Yeah, let's give Anthem the heavy resouces because there's like 12 people who aren't gamers who have a clue to it's upcoming existance.

 

Star Wars? Who the hell ever heard of that?

 

Pigmeys in the rain forest who haven't ever even seen a paved road before know who Darth Vader is.

 

I can't wait to see Anthem crash and burn in a well deserved failure because no one [mostly] who plays SWTOR would give 2 cents to get that crap.

 

It's Star Wars you stuffed suits [EA], and Star Wars is Forever.

 

F Anthem or enjoy the flames.

Edited November 13, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

The only good quality ones released seem to be from independent or small studios.

 

There's a reason why Witcher 3 from CDPR won more GotY awards than any other game in the history of the industry. I suspect they are going to duplicate or exceed that success with Cyberpunk 2077. But if they ever get greedy and sell their company to a EA like Bioware did, that will be the end of their success story.

I PvP about 95% of the time. It's the only reason I log on. Most weeks I manage to do my 20 games for the weekly on 2 characters and a few additional matches on a 3rd.

 

But I work strange hours so finding a friendly sub to sponsor me into WZ is sometimes hard. - especially lunchtimes and late nights when I'm mainly logged on.

If we had generous weekly passes or PvP was f2P then I'd drop my sub.

IF my guild had 1 sub and regular players I'd piggy-back off them. but alas I'm the GM of 3 guilds - all with no regular members any more.

 

AS for gear, I've kitted out 2 characters in full 248 - with loads of unused gold armour in storage ( just in case) the 3rd toon I can't be bothered with - since it'll all change soon enough in 5.10 - and why spend the credits now on crafting and augmenting and such when i's all gonna be obsolete in a few weeks?

There's a reason why Witcher 3 from CDPR won more GotY awards than any other game in the history of the industry. I suspect they are going to duplicate or exceed that success with Cyberpunk 2077. But if they ever get greedy and sell their company to a EA like Bioware did, that will be the end of their success story.

 

Even though I’m not usually a FPS or RPG player, I’m really excited about Cyberpunk.

Have you seen the actual game play trailer? OMG it’s so awesome and the NPCs and environment are mind blowing (makes swtor look like a DOS era game). And those bo*bs, so life like, lol. It will definitely be R rated in Australia.

Even though I’m not usually a FPS or RPG player, I’m really excited about Cyberpunk.

Have you seen the actual game play trailer? OMG it’s so awesome and the NPCs and environment are mind blowing (makes swtor look like a DOS era game). And those bo*bs, so life like, lol. It will definitely be R rated in Australia.

 

That's where you'll find me. (Single player) RPGs like Metro Exodus and Cyberpunk 2077. And yes, I watched the entire 1 hour demo for Cyberpunk 2077. It's going to set the bar for immersive, quality gaming to a whole new level. I've already cautioned my wife that I'll be moving down to the living room for 3+ months when it's released (that's a conservative estimate). It's possible I may even end up divorced, but at least I'll have a new swanky pad in Night City, Eddies to spare for some hot pros, sweet combat armor and military grade cybernetics to match, and of course some sick smart weapons.

 

Incidentally, the game will feature full frontal nudity, so it will absolutely have the "R" rating, or here in the US, it will likely be an "AO" for "Adults Only", which is the highest it goes.

 

(Sorry for getting off topic.)