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Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Foambreaker's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 01:56 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Angel_Inside View Post
I now regret that I made a huge mistake and payed another 2 months sub to you Bioware. The very last time definitely. You've already nerfed four classes which I've been playing and gearing up, and I'm not gonna invest any more minute of my time farming your crappy CXP and gearing up another class which you would think is imbalanced. F**k you. I gave you enough time. Do your damn job finally! Stop touching something that was not broken!
When they "accidentally on purpose" added the bonus to the old eye bleed dailies instead of having new content I was tempted to gear up my sin but instead I played another game.

Talk about making the right call.

There is no point in investing time in this game, they do not respect your efforts.

lol, software from Texas.

Elusive_Thing's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 01:56 PM | #22
The impact of this on PvP is pretty bad too, especially for tank/healer games where Deception already had issues. Culling the burst like this is crap for PvP altogether. For PvE, there is even less of a reason to bring a Deception Sin than there already was.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hoppinswtor View Post
500 dps loss overall?
Maul seems to be the only rotational not nerfed. Haven't seen anyone run the numbers, but it sure looks like it's substantially more than 500 DPS.

Kirtastropohe's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:05 PM | #23
Meanwhile, Mercs and Commandos have their 3 health bars.... this is BWs idea of balance...

You know what isn't overperforming devs? You.... I cannot believe you are tone deaf to the freaking state of PvP these days with ranged owning all and you go making nerfs like this while ignoring the most glaring problem in the game.

No wonder people are fleeing this game.

yellow_'s Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:05 PM | #24
really, really struggling to understand why a fellow melee burst spec that was already parsing less than carnage and concealment (with decidedly less utility than marauders) would get nerfed harder and in a more impactful way

realllyyyyyy struggling

are you guys sure the dev team didn't misplace a decimal point?

FlavivsAetivs's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:05 PM | #25
IMO the class didn't need a nerf, and here's why:

Infiltration/Deception has literally nothing going for it but raw DPS. Infil/Decep (and Hatred/Serenity) is the only class that doesn't have a raid buff. In fact, it has almost no raid utility at all, since its stealth is tied to its rotation, and on top of that stealth rez is still broken for some people (it breaks at precisely 2.4s each time with NO AOE, buffs, heals, etc. etc. I have been stealth rezzing for 3 years I know when it's broken). It has severely limited AoE and is only good for single target DPS. Finally its gap closer is tied to its rotation as well, which affects mobility although it's much better than used to be when it comes to adds/trash.

Furthermore, Deception/Infiltration doesn't have a single DPS number - you can't bring it down to a target DPS, you can only bring it down to a target range. That target range currently has a margin of error of approximately +/- 500 DPS. The easy way to explain it is that one of our most important procs is basically RNG, it's not guaranteed, so we don't have an actual rotation. As a result the spec can get 10,000 DPS or 9,000 DPS by doing the priority order perfectly; it will be pretty random, although crit/mastery stacking for a really high crit chance narrows it down pretty well. This is far more than any other DPS spec. As a result, our DPS wasn't nerfed from 10,500 DPS to 10,000 DPS, it was nerfed from a range of 9500-10500 DPS to about 8700-9900 DPS (the reduced crit chances have resulted in an expanded margin of error), with the average being nerfed from 9800-10200 DPS (the target range) to 9300-9700 DPS (below its intended target range.)

So IMO, this class didn't need to be nerfed. It has never been wanted in NiM due to its position requirement and low DPS, and complete and utter lack of any raid utility. The only reason it is ever remotely viable as a class is on the off occasion Bioware has accidentally made it "OP" by their standards, which is really where the spec should be, and it is not actually OP.

The least you all can do is make its DPS in front of the boss the same as behind the boss, so there's no position requirement at all anymore. Nerfing it to a soft requirement was an improvement, but not enough. The best you could do is either give us a raid buff, or make us one of the top DPS.
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TopAceOfEarth's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:08 PM | #26
I mean this is some very serious calculation to have adjusted an ability by 5.15% and not just 5.0% .... either that or the poo they threw at the class change wall was sliding down the board a bit.
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Quraswren's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:08 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by ivanhedgehog View Post
they seem to be killing all classes. It is almost like they put 248 gear in the game but didnt want anyone to benefit from it. So they are kneecapping all classes so that we just have the grind but no benefit. And then they wonder why they have dwindling subscriber numbers. The egos at the top of the bioware management team need to be fired and replaced. They have cut the operation to bare minimum and continue to cater to their own egos over their players.
Dead on. We were just discussing this last night and came to a similar conclusion. Anything to hinder the gamers at this point in clearing any content but OPS is a focus for hinderance.

We think bioware really wants to put a nerf to OPS numbers in the next year. It's harder to create OPS and bioware just doesn't seem to have the staff to get them out in a decent release schedule. SO, create a sennario and make fewer gamers do OPS so they are manipulating the date to coin a phrase. Create some OPS bosses at an extremely slow pace but nerf all classes so they cannot do or get into HM or NM content (many cannot even do the SM content ) so in a years time even with their so called "re-focus" back on MMO content. We will hear how little gamers clear OPS (even the lowest levels) so they can justify doing the easier to create story content again whichwe all know didn't work out really well.

I'll also add, we think a new tier of gear is going to be brought up. So bioware is nerfing everyone in prep to that release of gear and new grind. 1 step forward and 2 steps back so to speak in bioware design.

We are in the mists of changes that bring no good to this game. They don't add fun or entertainment to a game that is struggling and thats a problem.
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Hellhog's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:24 PM | #28
My body is ready.

That being said, I know it needed a nerf compared to some other classes, unfortunately not this much. I'll still be raiding in deception for some fights but probably rocking danktred more often now like in 4.0.
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ultimarb's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:24 PM | #29
quote from your how class balance works...

Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS)

Advanced Prototype Powertech / Tactics Vanguard
Carnage Marauder / Combat Sentinel 10660.70 DPS AFTER NERF
Concealment Operative / Scrapper Scoundrel
Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow 10589.22 DPS NOW
Engineering Sniper / Saboteur Gunslinger
Innovative Ordnance Mercenary / Assault Specialist Commando
Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage
Rage Juggernaut / Focus Guardian

Carnage 10,6k dps after nerf....deception 10,5 now...after nerf maybe 10k...
i agree with a nerf as i did with the nerf for arsenal...but please get your math right. the list you postet is a joke if you think this is balanced just dps considerd

Krazhez's Avatar

09.25.2017 , 02:26 PM | #30
Deception needed an adjustment, but this much??

This is probably a silly question, but is the goal to make people that are doing nim have to start using the nim crystal? People probably don't need encryptions much anymore, on populated servers anyway, but the nim cyrstal takes 15 encryptions to craft. (keeping conquest relevant, even though it's horrible)