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Rotation post nerf for virulence


Mikimaster

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Been playing around with including the procked take down into the rotation more and been considering moving Cull and Weaking Blast since Cull doesnt prock it anymore. Anyone got a good rotation for after the nerf?

 

Really should keep WB and cull in same spots because even though cull doesn't proc it, the dots that cull procs does proc WB. What I've been doing is priority from highest to lowest for fillers: Takedown > SoS > Roll (if dummy parse and can use energy) > LS > Rifle Shot.

Edited by shyroman
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Where is Dirty Blast in the priority? Still post cull/Wounding shots, but after Takedown, within the Hemorrhaging Blast window?

 

Dirty blast is significantly lower in priority now. Because 2 dirty blasts does roughly the same damage as a speed shot but costs a lot more energy, you always want to use speed shot first above 30% without HB. Below 30%, DB has a higher priority if you have the energy, but if you don't have the energy to for sure use 2 DB then it's still better to use speed shots.

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What's wrong with (apologies for the gunslinger terminology) vital shot-sharp bomb- hemorrhaging blast-wounding shots-quickdraw-dirty shotx2-3-wounding shots-quickdraw-speed shot-flurry of shots or frag nade?-wounding shots-quickdraw-start over? Edited by Burgdawg
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What's wrong with (apologies for the gunslinger terminology) vital shot-sharp bomb- hemorrhaging blast-wounding shots-quickdraw-dirty shotx2-3-wounding shots-quickdraw-speed shot-flurry of shots or frag nade?-wounding shots-quickdraw-start over?

 

never use frag grenade, the amount of damage it does for the amount of energy it uses is really bad. The reason why you can't just do a static rotation is because of energy. If you get unlucky with dot crits then there's the possibility that the rotation you posted could put you below max energy regen. Another reason is because outside of the beginning, the timings of HB window won't align correctly with where you're putting your dirty blasts. HB is right before every even cull while for what you posted, the dirty blasts will be after culls 2, 5, 8 etc.. In that case, you will sometimes have speed shots under HB which is not ideal when you can use DB during that.

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Dirty blast is significantly lower in priority now. Because 2 dirty blasts does roughly the same damage as a speed shot but costs a lot more energy, you always want to use speed shot first above 30% without HB. Below 30%, DB has a higher priority if you have the energy, but if you don't have the energy to for sure use 2 DB then it's still better to use speed shots.

 

Just to be clear...If I got Hemorrhaging Blast applied, Dirty Blast (post the proc'd takedown after Wounding shots/cull) is still a higher priority over SoS/Speedshot...? Correct?

 

...and thanks, as usual.

Edited by MurkyDregs
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Just to be clear...If I got Hemorrhaging Blast applied, Dirty Blast (post the proc'd takedown after Wounding shots/cull) is still a higher priority over SoS/Speedshot...? Correct?

 

...and thanks, as usual.

 

Generally yes, if you have the energy to not delay anything else in the future and not dipping below max energy regen. The ideal scenario is to use the first SoS in the 3rd filler window, then to use the next one in the 5th, then 9th, then 11th and so on. So starting in 3rd, then 2 after, 4 after, 2 after, 4 after, etc.. Because dirty blast does do a slight amount more damage under HB, then you want to try always fit 2 of those in under HB window, and those SoS will keep you at a high enough energy as long as you don't get extremely unlucky or push energy too hard. Because HB will be up during every even filler window, notice how doing this won't ever put SoS under WB. The reason for the extra delay is because during the 7th filler window you will be applying dots (starts with first and every 3rd).

Edited by shyroman
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never use frag grenade, the amount of damage it does for the amount of energy it uses is really bad. The reason why you can't just do a static rotation is because of energy. If you get unlucky with dot crits then there's the possibility that the rotation you posted could put you below max energy regen. Another reason is because outside of the beginning, the timings of HB window won't align correctly with where you're putting your dirty blasts. HB is right before every even cull while for what you posted, the dirty blasts will be after culls 2, 5, 8 etc.. In that case, you will sometimes have speed shots under HB which is not ideal when you can use DB during that.

I can see that with frag grenade. Idk how anyone can have issues with energy management in this spec when you have cool head, even if you get into trouble and cool head is on CD you can just weave in flurry of shots for filler until you recover. I only use HB before the WS after which I use DB, HB lasts 10secs and the CD for WS is 9, so since my DB directly follow the WS that directly follow my HB, I never use SS under HB...

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I can see that with frag grenade. Idk how anyone can have issues with energy management in this spec when you have cool head, even if you get into trouble and cool head is on CD you can just weave in flurry of shots for filler until you recover. I only use HB before the WS after which I use DB, HB lasts 10secs and the CD for WS is 9, so since my DB directly follow the WS that directly follow my HB, I never use SS under HB...

 

I actually never try to push to use cool head at any point in my rotation. My thought process for that is that I can be slightly more aggressive with energy to the point where if I get a bit lucky then I won't have to use it at all instead of going super hard once it's off cd and have to play safe with energy later, because having to basic attack instead of a DB is enough of a damage loss that it isn't worth it. The whole difficulty with dirty fighting now is pushing energy as hard as you can without actually running low and weaving in SoS and optimal placements of basic attack/roll is key.

Edited by shyroman
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What's wrong with (apologies for the gunslinger terminology) vital shot-sharp bomb- hemorrhaging blast-wounding shots-quickdraw-dirty shotx2-3-wounding shots-quickdraw-speed shot-flurry of shots or frag nade?-wounding shots-quickdraw-start over?

 

That's how I play it.

 

OPENER: Precast XS Freighter->Dirty Blast->Vital Shot->Shrap Bomb->Hemorrhaging Blast->Wounding Shots->

Block 1: (Quickdraw->Dirty Shotx3->Wounding Shots)->

Block 2: (Quickdraw->Speed Shot->Hemorrhaging Blast->Wounding Shots)->

Block 3: (Quickdraw->Vital Shot->Shrap Bomb->Filler->Wounding Shots)->

 

Rotation goes like this: Opener->Block 1-> Block 2 -> Block 3 -> Block 2 -> Block 1 -> Block 3 -> repeat from first Block 1.

 

Filler is: Hemorrhaging Blast if available > Roll if possible but not recommended if not on dummy > Flurry of Bolts > Dirty Shot if tons of energy.

 

One of the 3x Dirty Shots might need to be replaced by Flurry/Roll but that depends on DoT crits and if Cool Head is available.

 

Use Target Acquired in the opener and then afterwards more as energy regen tool. But still better time it before Wounding Shots.

Smuggler's Luck in the precast section and then on cooldown.

 

This parse uses pretty much what I described and it happens to be number 1 on Parsely atm. As it's a dummy parse, the guy just uses roll instead of one Dirty blast in 3x Dirty blast section.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/301086/0

Edited by Equeliber
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That's how I play it.

 

OPENER: Precast XS Freighter->dirty blast->Vital shot->Shrap bomb->Hemorrhaging blast->Wounding shots->

Block 1: (Quickdraw->dirty shotx3->wounding shots)->

Block 2: (quickdraw->speed shot->Hemorrhaging blast->Wounding shots)->

Block 3: (Quickdraw->Filler->vital shot->shrap bomb->wounding shots)->

 

Rotation goes like this: Opener->Block 1-> Block 2 -> Block 3 -> Block 2 -> Block 1 -> Block 3 -> repeat from first Block 1.

 

Filler is: Weakening blast if available > Roll if possible but not recommended if not on dummy > Flurry of bolts > Lethal shot if tons of energy

 

Also depending on crits one of the 3x Dirty shots might need to be replaced by flurry/roll but that happens quite rarely.

 

Use Target Acquired in the opener and then afterwards more as energy regen tool. Bu still better time it before cull.

Smuggler's Luck in the precast section and then on cooldown.

See that makes perfect sense to me, it's the most efficient way to fit 3 wounding shots in between resetting your dots while making best use of the filler. I just realized that in block 1 one might have to switch and do the dirty blasts before the quickdraw to ensure all 3 hit before hemorrhaging blast wears off...?

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See that makes perfect sense to me, it's the most efficient way to fit 3 wounding shots in between resetting your dots while making best use of the filler. I just realized that in block 1 one might have to switch and do the dirty blasts before the quickdraw to ensure all 3 hit before hemorrhaging blast wears off...?

 

Hmm, don't think so. What might be switched is in Block 3 Filler moved to the end if it is a Hemorrhaging Blast. So Quickdraw -> Dots -> Hemorrhaging Blast -> Wounding Shots.

 

P.S. Actually, I should just move filler to the end as it is there more often than not.

Edited by Equeliber
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That's how I play it.

 

OPENER: Precast XS Freighter->Dirty Blast->Vital Shot->Shrap Bomb->Hemorrhaging Blast->Wounding Shots->

Block 1: (Quickdraw->Dirty Shotx3->Wounding Shots)->

Block 2: (Quickdraw->Speed Shot->Hemorrhaging Blast->Wounding Shots)->

Block 3: (Quickdraw->Vital Shot->Shrap Bomb->Filler->Wounding Shots)->

 

Rotation goes like this: Opener->Block 1-> Block 2 -> Block 3 -> Block 2 -> Block 1 -> Block 3 -> repeat from first Block 1.

 

Filler is: Hemorrhaging Blast if available > Roll if possible but not recommended if not on dummy > Flurry of Bolts > Dirty Shot if tons of energy.

 

One of the 3x Dirty Shots might need to be replaced by Flurry/Roll but that depends on DoT crits and if Cool Head is available.

 

Use Target Acquired in the opener and then afterwards more as energy regen tool. But still better time it before Wounding Shots.

Smuggler's Luck in the precast section and then on cooldown.

 

This parse uses pretty much what I described and it happens to be number 1 on Parsely atm. As it's a dummy parse, the guy just uses roll instead of one Dirty blast in 3x Dirty blast section.

http://parsely.io/parser/view/301086/0

 

Thank you so much for writing this up, since this is a much simpler way of going about what I do and is much easier to learn than the nonsense (to most) that I put out. I think of it purely as a 4 filler priority system between the wounding shots depending on energy and cooldowns of what is available now and in the next set of fillers but that is very difficult for new players to just pick up. Yours is much easier to learn and this is the reason why I never write guides lol.

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Thank you so much for writing this up, since this is a much simpler way of going about what I do and is much easier to learn than the nonsense (to most) that I put out. I think of it purely as a 4 filler priority system between the wounding shots depending on energy and cooldowns of what is available now and in the next set of fillers but that is very difficult for new players to just pick up. Yours is much easier to learn and this is the reason why I never write guides lol.

 

lol...don't underestimate your ability to explain things. Once the lightbulb fizzles on and someone new at the spec' "gets it," your detailed info is gold.

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Thank you so much for writing this up, since this is a much simpler way of going about what I do and is much easier to learn than the nonsense (to most) that I put out. I think of it purely as a 4 filler priority system between the wounding shots depending on energy and cooldowns of what is available now and in the next set of fillers but that is very difficult for new players to just pick up. Yours is much easier to learn and this is the reason why I never write guides lol.

 

Haha, wait, you are the one whose parse I linked! I have been lazy to put up a parse myself, besides, my gear is not yet perfected.

 

You actually do it really well, just the roll in the 3x Dirty Blast section is questionable. Sometimes it's good but if you have energy, Dirty Shot is better.

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Haha, wait, you are the one whose parse I linked! I have been lazy to put up a parse myself, besides, my gear is not yet perfected.

 

You actually do it really well, just the roll in the 3x Dirty Blast section is questionable. Sometimes it's good but if you have energy, Dirty Shot is better.

 

The reason why I do the roll in the opener (and only sometimes, if I get really lucky on crits then I won't) is because roll actually does very similar dps to dirty blast, it does roughly 500 damage less (and an extra 700 damage on HB), but it costs 0 energy, and because HB now costs energy, the amount of energy spent in the opener is higher than before and I don't like having to risk using cool head just after the opener (for reasons stated above). In an operation then yeah I'll always use the 3 dirty blasts because energy is usually much less of an issue because downtime and double dotting. My parse is strictly a dummy rotation with as much usage of roll as possible because it does significant damage for 0 energy.

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The reason why I do the roll in the opener (and only sometimes, if I get really lucky on crits then I won't) is because roll actually does very similar dps to dirty blast, it does roughly 500 damage less (and an extra 700 damage on HB), but it costs 0 energy, and because HB now costs energy, the amount of energy spent in the opener is higher than before and I don't like having to risk using cool head just after the opener (for reasons stated above). In an operation then yeah I'll always use the 3 dirty blasts because energy is usually much less of an issue because downtime and double dotting. My parse is strictly a dummy rotation with as much usage of roll as possible because it does significant damage for 0 energy.

 

Yep, totally agree!

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Just some food for thought..

 

Is it good for us to always try to push as high dps as possible on dummy (roll) and then uploading it, giving others the impression that snipers (virulence and engineering) are always doing more dps than other classes?

 

Reason I ask this is because, for snipers, our dps on a dummy is deceptively higher than in ops (against single target), whereas many other classes (mara, PT, merc, jug, etc) are deceptively lower on dummy than in ops (against single target) due to reflect.

 

By using roll excessively on dummy and getting a good parse, inevitably gives others the impression that snipers are doing really well, when in actual ops (single target), it may not be the real case. This false impression can lead to people who keep asking for more nerfs to sniper, or more buffs to other classes.

 

This recent nerf has led to a v significant drop in dps, but one can still see people crying for more buffs to other classes because snipers can still hit 10k on dummy. Lol lol. They neglect to see the excessive roll used.

 

Thoughts?

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Just some food for thought..

 

Is it good for us to always try to push as high dps as possible on dummy (roll) and then uploading it, giving others the impression that snipers (virulence and engineering) are always doing more dps than other classes?

 

Reason I ask this is because, for snipers, our dps on a dummy is deceptively higher than in ops (against single target), whereas many other classes (mara, PT, merc, jug, etc) are deceptively lower on dummy than in ops (against single target) due to reflect.

 

By using roll excessively on dummy and getting a good parse, inevitably gives others the impression that snipers are doing really well, when in actual ops (single target), it may not be the real case. This false impression can lead to people who keep asking for more nerfs to sniper, or more buffs to other classes.

 

This recent nerf has led to a v significant drop in dps, but one can still see people crying for more buffs to other classes because snipers can still hit 10k on dummy. Lol lol. They neglect to see the excessive roll used.

 

Thoughts?

 

In this case roll barely changes anything. Difference is minimal. You will get more additional damage in actual fights by DoT spreading/AoE Cleave from plasma probe and EMP/Easy target switching with MM.

 

Scatter bombs on Engi indeed hit quite a bit harder than rifle shot but for Virulence roll vs rifle shot is a rare occasion even in parses - almost the whole rotation stays the same in fights. And with Engi as I said you get tons of bonus damage from your aoes which completely covers the absence of roll.

Edited by Equeliber
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In this case roll barely changes anything. Difference is minimal. You will get more additional damage in actual fights by DoT spreading/AoE Cleave from plasma probe and EMP/Easy target switching with MM.

 

Scatter bombs on Engi indeed hit quite a bit harder than rifle shot but for Virulence roll vs rifle shot is a rare occasion even in parses - almost the whole rotation stays the same in fights. And with Engi as I said you get tons of bonus damage from your aoes which completely covers the absence of roll.

 

You missed my point for discussion. I definitely know that in a real fight, with multi dotting and cleaves and all, we can do decent damage. However, the same can be said for other classes as most classes or specs have got their aoe damage as well.

 

Which is why, in my original post, I stated 'single target'. My point is (I reiterate): snipers do deceptively higher on a dummy than in a real fight (due to excessive roll), but other classes do deceptively lower on dummy than in a real fight (main factor due to reflect).

 

But, other people do not see this. They mainly look at parsely and go, 'hey snipers can still do 10k. Buff my merc or sorc or whatever class', without taking into account the fact that roll is used on dummy to get that dps, and snipers have no reflect that help boost its damage.

 

With this deceptive number, people can complain. Developers may too, only look at dummy numbers (as they said, 5 minutes). This could lead to a false inflation of sniper numbers, and lead people to think that snipers need more nerfing.

 

Hence, I wonder, are we doing ourselves a disservice by posting parses that make use of excessive rolls, which cannot be done all the time in a real fight?

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You missed my point for discussion. I definitely know that in a real fight, with multi dotting and cleaves and all, we can do decent damage. However, the same can be said for other classes as most classes or specs have got their aoe damage as well.

 

Which is why, in my original post, I stated 'single target'. My point is (I reiterate): snipers do deceptively higher on a dummy than in a real fight (due to excessive roll), but other classes do deceptively lower on dummy than in a real fight (main factor due to reflect).

 

But, other people do not see this. They mainly look at parsely and go, 'hey snipers can still do 10k. Buff my merc or sorc or whatever class', without taking into account the fact that roll is used on dummy to get that dps, and snipers have no reflect that help boost its damage.

 

With this deceptive number, people can complain. Developers may too, only look at dummy numbers (as they said, 5 minutes). This could lead to a false inflation of sniper numbers, and lead people to think that snipers need more nerfing.

 

Hence, I wonder, are we doing ourselves a disservice by posting parses that make use of excessive rolls, which cannot be done all the time in a real fight?

 

Yeah, it makes sense. I still stand by the point that even in parses if you change roll to a rifle shot it won't suddenly drop us by hundreds of DPS.

 

When it comes to leader boards, people want to get as high as possible, so this is why we use every tool at our disposal. And this is why people do all the different glitching just to get higher parse (marksman's energy bonus in other specs, lethality's shenanigans for operatives). Hard to change that.

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You missed my point for discussion. I definitely know that in a real fight, with multi dotting and cleaves and all, we can do decent damage. However, the same can be said for other classes as most classes or specs have got their aoe damage as well.

 

Which is why, in my original post, I stated 'single target'. My point is (I reiterate): snipers do deceptively higher on a dummy than in a real fight (due to excessive roll), but other classes do deceptively lower on dummy than in a real fight (main factor due to reflect).

 

But, other people do not see this. They mainly look at parsely and go, 'hey snipers can still do 10k. Buff my merc or sorc or whatever class', without taking into account the fact that roll is used on dummy to get that dps, and snipers have no reflect that help boost its damage.

 

With this deceptive number, people can complain. Developers may too, only look at dummy numbers (as they said, 5 minutes). This could lead to a false inflation of sniper numbers, and lead people to think that snipers need more nerfing.

 

Hence, I wonder, are we doing ourselves a disservice by posting parses that make use of excessive rolls, which cannot be done all the time in a real fight?

 

Tactics to push higher dummy numbers are often creative and good for exploring what a class can do. I agree it somewhat distorts class representations but to put it bluntly; why is anyone going to dummy leaderboards to get an idea of how a spec is in a raid when the raid leaderboards are a couple clicks away?

 

Furthermore; it brings up a debate of what would and would not be allowed. I do roll almost as much as I would on a dummy in some raid fights. How many rolls is too much on a dummy? Should some utilities then be banned? Assassins spec into utilities which would not be used in a fight for dummy parses and the deception dummy precast takes 30s (which many raids won't wait for).

 

Finally policing anything like that would be a nightmare. I and many others have talked with Mari about topics surrounding the parsely boards. Policing exploited parses is already a major hassle (MM cover bug, CL bug, even notepadding), policing something like this would be a nightmare.

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