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Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap
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DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
07.29.2017 , 05:31 PM | #761
Quote: Originally Posted by KeithKanneg View Post
We did read the whole thread and remember we didn't offer that as an option as progression is still part of PvP. Moving Bolster to 250 virtually eliminates the need to get gear and reduces the value for those who have earned Tier 4 pieces.

The right answer is we need to resolve the PvP gearing issues, so Bolster gets removed as a central issue.

Keith---
You're right, you didn't offer bolster to max. However, that's what your players want. A flat, even playing field. Once again, BW isn't listening. You give us three bad to terrible alternatives because you don't want to fix it the way your paying customers want. That means you'll keep losing paying customers. How long can you continue to do that?

As to gearing, it isn't just PVP that is FUBAR. And "Fixing" gearing isn't going to make the bolster issue go away. And if it's as good as your idea of "balancing" it'll be a total mess.

I had great hopes when you took over, but what I am seeing is more talking at us, no more talking to us. That isn't communication and isn't going to help you stop bleeding subs.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
But the PvP players want a PvP paradigm where Skill is the determining factor.
The ONLY way to do that is to make Gear as near to irrelevant as is mechanically possible.

And that is 100% antithetical to your concept of "Gear Progression" as a part of PvP.

You can have A) Skill Based PvP, OR you can have B) Gear Progression Based PvP, you can't have both.

Your customers have told you they want A, and you have half said "No, you're getting B".

So you "read" the whole thread, but didn't actually take on board what was said.

I understand - you want there to be Gear Progression because that is a useful (from Bioware's PoV) proxy term for "Grind" - the continual rinse-repeating of already stale content just to get back to the same relative power level we were BEFORE the last content patch.

I have no problem with a grind to "get more powerful", but a grind to "get back to being as powerful as I was 1 year ago" is - frankly - insulting to our intelligence and to our prior efforts.


All The Best
Amen!

Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
One annoying thing on forums is when people offer advice, find out it was rejected, and accuse the devs of "not listening." It's entirely possible they listened, read what you wrote -- and, wait for it, wait for it -- disagree.
And we can stop paying when they go directions we don't like. Look at server populations and queue times and tell me you think the majority of people play a year ago or two years ago or even three years ago thing they have gone the right direction.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Devs gambled everything on GC RNG, but they didn't even get green loot.
REGULATORS

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
07.29.2017 , 05:34 PM | #762
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
Indeed there should be but it shouldn't be gear. Look at the most successful PVP based games in the world - they have populations magnitudes larger than the PVP (likely the entire game) in this game without needing to hear stat gear grind, vanity systems work wonders for this game and what is more BWA could even cash in further from it with their cash shop as an alternative - meaning you can get your vanity rewards faster by paying more cash and it's not P2W at all because there is no stat gear.

They can't have a "get your prizes quicker now" for PVP because that would mean getting stat gear quicker and that is P2W.

This supposed "MMO" gear progression model for PVP is an outdated and ultimately inferior model and it's proven to be such solely by how more successful other games do PVP that is at it's hreat quite similar to MMO PVP (Mobas for an example aren't all that far removed from MMO PVP)
One of your more annoying habits (of which there are many) is that in previous posts you almost invariably raise the issue of ...

Burden of Proof. You argue that other games have a more successful PvP model.

My dear fair lady, please name them!

Your most obsequious,

Dasty the Hutt

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
07.29.2017 , 05:40 PM | #763
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
You're right, you didn't offer bolster to max. However, that's what your players want. A flat, even playing field. Once again, BW isn't listening. You give us three bad to terrible alternatives because you don't want to fix it the way your paying customers want. That means you'll keep losing paying customers. How long can you continue to do that?

As to gearing, it isn't just PVP that is FUBAR. And "Fixing" gearing isn't going to make the bolster issue go away. And if it's as good as your idea of "balancing" it'll be a total mess.

I had great hopes when you took over, but what I am seeing is more talking at us, no more talking to us. That isn't communication and isn't going to help you stop bleeding subs.



Amen!



And we can stop paying when they go directions we don't like. Look at server populations and queue times and tell me you think the majority of people play a year ago or two years ago or even three years ago thing they have gone the right direction.
You think I'm against you when I'm not. We are quite literally arguing actually over the LEVEL of Bolster. I know this may be hard for you to believe, but let's stipulate:

1) A lot of us like to PvP.

2) In order to fix our PvP rush, we want PvP WZs to pop.

3) Encouraging PvE types to PvP is good for everyone

You do know that at the end fo the day, we are talking about where the bolster should exist between 242 or 248? That's not really that much in the grand scheme of things. FYI, I originally said 244, but let's say 246. You do understand that this is quite arguably good for PvP?

Bottom line: would you complain if the bolster is 246?

Dasty

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
07.29.2017 , 05:47 PM | #764
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
One of your more annoying habits (of which there are many) is that in previous posts you almost invariably raise the issue of ...
Having to get personal now rather than addressing the points made against you ... someone is just replying for the sake of replying.

Quote:
Burden of Proof. You argue that other games have a more successful PvP model.
Overwatch, LoL, Dota 2, CoD, Battlefront to name a few ...

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
07.29.2017 , 05:51 PM | #765
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
Having to get personal now rather than addressing the points made against you ... someone is just replying for the sake of replying.



Overwatch, LoL, Dota 2, CoD, Battlefront to name a few ...
None of which have an MMO aspect. If you're looking for a pure PvP game, you listed a bunch of great ones.

FYI...I would add Heroes of the Storm to that list. My Lili will WTFPWNU.

#waytonotnamecomparablegames

Going's Avatar


Going
07.29.2017 , 06:41 PM | #766
Please do not vote for 250 bolster....Do you guys understand that in doing so, you will cancel out any gear progression in place? Why would you want that? What benefit does that give people? Please...
Deceiving Believing - Going - Medsrus

Godlovesugly - Netsrus -Usabuildsufos

Jerba's Avatar


Jerba
07.29.2017 , 07:38 PM | #767
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
3) Encouraging PvE types to PvP is good for everyone
No, this is not good for everyone, this harms the PvE community. It leads to increased queue times in group finder, and to less PuG operation runs. Any PvE player queueing for PvP is not helping out in Group Finder or PuGs. Endgame PvE currently has a braindrain problem where there are not enough veteran players to teach new players, because the veteran players are forced to PvP to get components.

You PvP players may have been happy the last couple months because of short queue times, but this comes at the expense of the PvE community.

menofhorror's Avatar


menofhorror
07.29.2017 , 07:48 PM | #768
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
Indeed there should be but it shouldn't be gear. Look at the most successful PVP based games in the world - they have populations magnitudes larger than the PVP (likely the entire game) in this game without needing to hear stat gear grind, vanity systems work wonders for this game and what is more BWA could even cash in further from it with their cash shop as an alternative - meaning you can get your vanity rewards faster by paying more cash and it's not P2W at all because there is no stat gear.

They can't have a "get your prizes quicker now" for PVP because that would mean getting stat gear quicker and that is P2W.

This supposed "MMO" gear progression model for PVP is an outdated and ultimately inferior model and it's proven to be such solely by how more successful other games do PVP that is at it's hreat quite similar to MMO PVP (Mobas for an example aren't all that far removed from MMO PVP)
The difference is that swtor isn't a pvp-based game. Pvp is and always will be a side activity in this game in my eyes.But what games are you talking about?Also are you sure you know the reasons why those games have higher populations? You assume it's because of the lack of gear progression but who knows if that's the truth. I do not know what a vanity system is though.

Also isn't anything relating to speeding up progression essentially pay to win?

menofhorror's Avatar


menofhorror
07.29.2017 , 07:55 PM | #769
Quote: Originally Posted by DanNV View Post
You're right, you didn't offer bolster to max. However, that's what your players want. A flat, even playing field. Once again, BW isn't listening. You give us three bad to terrible alternatives because you don't want to fix it the way your paying customers want. That means you'll keep losing paying customers. How long can you continue to do that?

As to gearing, it isn't just PVP that is FUBAR. And "Fixing" gearing isn't going to make the bolster issue go away. And if it's as good as your idea of "balancing" it'll be a total mess.

I had great hopes when you took over, but what I am seeing is more talking at us, no more talking to us. That isn't communication and isn't going to help you stop bleeding subs.



Amen!



And we can stop paying when they go directions we don't like. Look at server populations and queue times and tell me you think the majority of people play a year ago or two years ago or even three years ago thing they have gone the right direction.
Know your place.
You don't speak for anyone so stop saying "what players want" but rather what you want. How would you know the devs aren't listening? Perhaps they are listening but are disagreeing or have other reasons why they don't agree or don't do some things you want. You loose credibility with that kind of arrogance.
You assume they loose customers because of the thing you want but they don't implement. Again, loose that arrogance of yours, you loose credibility that way.

It is communications. What kind of hopes did you have? Perhaps you will find that "dream MMO" somewhere else.

CountZart's Avatar


CountZart
07.29.2017 , 08:28 PM | #770
This is something you have talk to the Devs about:

The companions.... the generic companions!

Make every companion unique and special.

Its been hard for me to swallow the fact that Bowdaar, a 7 feet gladiator... runs around and heals....
Shall we not just make him a tank? Please?

The healing companions could have different types of heals. Depending on what you need them for. Same goes for Tank comps and Dps comps.

Lets say that you have a Tanking comp that are extremely good at Grappling. Another one has lots of different threats.

I think by doing this change, makes it both realistic and fair why in the world we have 150 companions to choose from....

Thanks!