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Lethality / Ruffian Set Bonuses and Tactical Items

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Lethality / Ruffian Set Bonuses and Tactical Items
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
04.16.2019 , 08:28 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks,

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. I want to use this thread to talk about Tactical Item effects and Set Bonuses for Lethality and Ruffian Disciplines. Our goal for set bonuses is to introduce new bonuses, and potentially with even new sizes so you can mix and match. Tactical Items are a new item type that is meant to be build defining and most likely to directly impact how an ability works. For inspiration here are two completely made up Chain Lightning Examples:
  1. Chain Lightning now does all of its total damage to only one target, and no longer jumps.
  2. Chain Lightning now jumps even more and does additional damage to secondary targets.

That would allow you to take a standard ability and allow it to be modified to fit your playstyle. Please use this thread to brainstorm ideas and make as many recommendations as you would like! For context:
  • Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  • Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.
Set bonuses, tacticals, both, let us know what you would like to see. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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Carbon_Graphix's Avatar


Carbon_Graphix
04.16.2019 , 07:39 PM | #2
Gonna be using imperial terms because this already took too long to write and I'm not translating...

Tactical Item Ideas:

1) Simple AOE Oriented: Toxic Haze no longer requires a Tactical Advantage to deploy, ticks harder and has a larger area of effect... Standard sorta AOE upgrade
2) More Complicated AOE Oriented but kinda also single target... Can be used for both: If Lethal Strike is used on an enemy within Toxic Haze's area, it extends the duration of of Augmented Toxins by X amount (or XX%) per target within Toxic Haze (If it's hard to register which enemies are in there, it can have a similar effect relying on number of DoT effects applied on different enemies) up to 7 other targets. The goal could be to have the maximum extension be so that Lethal Strike Comes off cooldown right as Augmented Toxins is falling off
3) Single Target: Toxic Haze is now a single target attack which hits just a little less than an Overload shot and applies DoT effect which ticks similar to a Demolish on Madness Sorcs. Note: It still requires a TA and only lasts the 6 seconds. You can no longer spread Corrosive Dart to other enemies with Toxic Haze as it is no longer AoE. (This would change rotations and make it more interesting in PvE as it adds another ability that can be optimized to occur alongside Augmented Toxins. Raising skill cap but not increasing skill floor too much)
4) Lifesteal: While you are under the effects of Augmented Toxins, your periodic damaging effects heal you for 50% of the damage they deal. If the target is under the effect of Toxic Blast, 100% of the damage it takes also heals you. (Probably some unrealistic %s but in order for it to be a proper Tactical Item it would have to feel impactful... Maybe I'm just hoping for old Madness Sins back...)
5) PvP... or just fun overall: If a target is effected by both a sleep effect and a poison (normally wouldn't damage because Toxic Regulators passive), each tick of damage the poison effect(s) would have had stack on the target as "Lurking Toxins" (Or some other name, idk, I'm not the creative one). When the target finally awakes, it takes damage equal to the number of stacks on them. (Can't be cleansed obviously and damage would be similar to the tick damage they would've done). I feel like this would promote a more liberal use of stealth in PvP so that people try and use it to sleep then burst someone down rather than run to the hills and regen constantly.
6) AoE & Single Target: Lethal Strike deals more damage. Lethal Strike can only be used if behind a target. If the target is suffering from the effects of Corrosive Grenade (And Corrosive Dart?), it erupts in a noxious cloud, dealing X more damage to the target and spreading the effects of Corrosive Grenade (and Corrosive Dart?) to all enemies within 5m. (Strange one but I believe in keeping some abilities position specific especially when it can be swapped in and out as with Tactical Items. This is kinda like the second one I proposed where it enhances Single target through AoE except this one enhances AoE through Single target)


Set Bonuses:

What we have:
(2): Corrosive Assault Increases damage done by 2% for 15 sec once every 30 sec
(4): Lethal Strike energy cost reduction by 2
(6): Shiv makes your next Corrosive Assault critically hit. Once every minute
These aren't too bad. I know these are supposed to be more subtle changes that encourage you to go for a full set but don't necessarily change the rotation if you don't have them but the fact that so many are so similar between classes seems boring to me. I think it can be made more interesting while still being minimally invasive. Something that makes people more aware of the class and how to play it. Bonuses that are good by themselves but can be mastered and pushed even further to raise the bar for experienced players. So here is my proposal while keeping in the theme of each level (damage with Corrosive Assault, energy management, big satisfying damage bonus).

(2): Corrosive Assaults that consume Fatality deal 5% more damage
(This promotes better upkeep of Fatality and teaches the rotation to a lot of people... Also Fatality just seems like it should increase the damage done by that Corrosive Assault)
(4): While Stim Boost is active, your Corrosive Dart and Corrosive Grenade have a 50% (instead of 10%) chance of ticking twice
(This restored more energy because of Lethal Purpose passive but also makes players understand how Stim Boost can be used as a soft energy regen. Energy has been a bit too easy in Lethality and while it shouldn't be crazy difficult because TA management is present, it should be a bit more of a concern. Now, you will drain more energy with Lethal Strike and need to balance the use of both Stim Boost and Adrenaline Prob for energy. Also, the 50% can be changed but I thought it should be significant and I REALLY like Stim Boost. Fav buff)
(6): Activating Shiv grants Enforcers Critical Bonus making your next Lethal Strike grant "Perfected Toxins" (Like Augmented Toxins but better) Increasing the critical chance and critical multiplier by 100% and 50% for your damaging and healing periodic effects. Lasts 6 seconds.
(More suited for a DoT class that can burst a little if needed. It is already a window that you try and maximize damage in and now it just gets increased a bunch with this. The numbers can change of course but this way players don't feel like its "just another auto-crit". Don't get me wrong. I love big auto-crits but Lethality is a DoT class and should be treated as such. This is also still ok in PvP because the pressure on a target for those 6 seconds if lined up well will be incredibly dangerous.

Anyway, those are my ramblings. I didn't spell check because I just realized how much time this took and I shouldn't have spent all that time on this but oh well. Hope you all enjoyed and BioWare, if you end up using any please confirm whether or not Kephess will be making a return. You can do this through email if you want to be secretive. I just need to know. Thanks. Bigfan.
Praise Kephess

If they ever bring him back I'll be the first one to wipe to him

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
04.17.2019 , 03:54 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Carbon_Graphix View Post
5) PvP... or just fun overall: If a target is effected by both a sleep effect and a poison (normally wouldn't damage because Toxic Regulators passive), each tick of damage the poison effect(s) would have had stack on the target as "Lurking Toxins" (Or some other name, idk, I'm not the creative one). When the target finally awakes, it takes damage equal to the number of stacks on them. (Can't be cleansed obviously and damage would be similar to the tick damage they would've done). I feel like this would promote a more liberal use of stealth in PvP so that people try and use it to sleep then burst someone down rather than run to the hills and regen constantly.
I think this could be a bit broken
I mean, put it in an moment where you catch someone alone. Sleep, cast dots, wait for sleep to almost end, cast flashbang(assume it could also affect since flashbang, like sleep dart, shouldn't break with dots) then prepare Corrosive assault right before flashbang effect ends. Will the CA also tick all the dots in the stack? Or just affect as if it was one 'stack'? Regardless of what choice, the damage will still be huge, but still asking since I'm curious.

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
04.17.2019 , 04:30 AM | #4
Tactical Item Ideas:

1 - This item is oriented towards PvP. I think adding DR to a class that is dependent on self-heals rather heavily would make it more reliable offensively.
1.1 - Adaptive Medication: As long as Quickening buff is up, the player receives a 10% - 20% Damage Reduction and upon use, the effect is lost.
1.1 - Medical Advantage: As long as Scurry buff is up, the player receives a 10% - 20% Damage Reduction and upon use, the effect is lost.
This one makes for an interesting choice to have I'd say. Sort of 'pick your poison'. Either have the extra 'permanent' DR or help healing yourself/teammates.

1.2 - Harnessed Resistance: When Kolto Infusion, with Quickening, is used, the target gains a 10% - 15% extra Damage Reduction for X seconds (should be a short duration, of course).
1.2 - Support Package: When Slow-release Medpac, with Scurry, is used, the target gains a 10% - 15% extra Damage Reduction for X seconds (should be a short duration, of course).
The spec is known for off-healing a lot during PvP so having this extra bit always helps. Perhaps the part of affecting the target is 'broken'? Debatable. Making this possible would definitely allow Lethality/Ruffian to surface a bit from the bad reputation it has on the PvP side of the game and encourage teamplay more.



2 - Another one that is mostly PvP oriented in case the first group of suggestions isn't 'ideal'. Maybe it could be a thing that would be useful for Concealment too? (except 2.1)
2.1 - Draining Blast: Damage dealt by Toxic Blast heals 50% of the damage it deals to the target.
2.1 - Hematic Treatment: Damage dealt by Sanguinary Shot heals 50% of the damage it deals to the target.
The damage that Toxic Blast/Sanguinary Shot deals is not significant, when compared to everything else and only affects one target, to make it 'broken' upon having this 'characteristic'.

2.2 - Haze Recovery: Damage dealt by Toxic Haze heals 50% of the damage it deals to targets.
2.2 - Unexpected Benefit: Damage dealt by Bushwhack heals 50% of the damage it deals to targets.
Another way of making self-healing work.

2.3 - Healing Toxins: Depending of number of targets Toxic Haze affects within its radius and duration, it builds up stacks and each heals up the player by X% (numbers to be picked on but I'd reckon between 2% and 4%) but the effect only activates when Toxic Haze ends. Stacks up to 8.
2.3 - Advanced Adaptability: Depending of number of targets that Bushwhack affects within its radius and duration, it builds up stacks and each heals up the player by X% (numbers to be picked on but I'd reckon between 2% and 4%) but the effect only activates when Bushwhack ends. Stacks up to 8.
An alternative to 2.2.

2.4 - Poison Thrill: Toxic Haze, Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart heals 15% of their damage dealt to a target.
2.4 - Bleeding Sensation: Bushwhack, Shrap Bomb and Vital Shot heals 15% of their damage dealt to a target.



3 - I always found the Fragmentation/Thermal Grenade as being underused so here's ideas for it that could make it more useful:
3.1 - Fragmentation Grenade allows to spread Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart within its radius as long as it hits an already affected target and reset duration of the same two abilities (Like Chain Lightning on Affliction).
3.1 - Thermal Grenade allows to spread Shrap Bomb and Vital Shot within its radius as long as it hits an already affected target and reset duration of the same two abilities (Like Chain Lightning on Affliction).
I believe this would be a great use of this ability as it could change rotation quite a bit for the better. Re-casting dots can be a bit of a bother, specially in PvP, and the dotspread it also a nice niche on it. Both useful for PvP and PvE.

3.2 - Poisonous Compound: Adds a compound that, aside from the standard damage it deals, it adds a poison effect that deals X internal damage on the targets it affected for the duration of X seconds. It also resets Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart duration on the targets (Like Chain Lightning on Affliction).
3.2 - Serrated Shrapnel: Adds sharp shrapnel, aside from the standard damage it deals, it adds a bleed effect that deals X internal damage on the targets it affected for the duration of X seconds. It also resets Shrap Bomb and Vital Shot durations on the targets (Like Chain Lightning on Affliction).
Just an extra dot into the play and a reset of dots. Possibly damage on the rotation and making is smoother to play out.



4 - An obvious increase to Toxic Haze/Bushwhack use would be appreciated. One of the two ideas below would be nice.
4.1 - Toxic Haze receives an increase of radius by 5 meters and damage.
4.1 - Bushwhack receives an increase of radius by 5 meters and damage.

4.2 - Toxic Haze receives an increase on duration by X seconds and damage.
4.2 - Bushwhack receives an increase on duration by X seconds and damage.


That's it for now.

Shirvington's Avatar


Shirvington
04.18.2019 , 12:41 PM | #5
I mostly only do PvP, so these suggestions come from the PvP side of things. These are suggestions for Tactical units.

1. Allow Shiv to be a throwing blade, now usable at 10m. A change like this doesn't affect PvE much, but allows the operative in PvP to play the class like a true 10m class instead of ducking in and out of 4 meters as it is now.

2. Put a small, short 4/6 sec poison dot on Shiv usage. Gives Corrosive Assault a little more punch when used directly after a Shiv.

3. Cause Lethal Strike to add a stack of Kolto Probe on yourself when used. This effect would allow an operative to use global cooldowns for damage instead of using them for self-healing. In order to heal other players, the operative would still have to spend a global cooldown on using Kolto Probe on another player. This effect would also be pretty useless for end game raiding as that's what healers are for, and there would probably be better tactical units for straight dps available as well.

3.A OR Cause Lethal Strike when used to put a hot effect on yourself that heals for as long and as much as one Kolto Probe, but doesn't stack with Kolto Probe. So you still have to spend the 2 global cooldowns putting Kolto Probe on yourself but now you can effectively have 3 stacks worth of self healing rolling during combat.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
04.18.2019 , 12:59 PM | #6
refresh dots on Toxic Haze or Corrosive Assault

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
04.19.2019 , 02:26 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
refresh dots on Toxic Haze or Corrosive Assault
That's dumb. Just shows you never even bothered to see what the spec is about

Shirvington's Avatar


Shirvington
04.19.2019 , 11:38 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
That's dumb. Just shows you never even bothered to see what the spec is about
Refresh on Corrosive Assault doesn't make much sense BUT

Refresh Dart on the first tick of Toxic Haze would be a pretty cool choice for a Tactical bonus. It would set everyone's Dart on the same timer, instead of having to juggle Darts like we have to now as some of them fall off when others are just applied from Toxic Haze.

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
04.19.2019 , 01:38 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Shirvington View Post
Refresh on Corrosive Assault doesn't make much sense BUT

Refresh Dart on the first tick of Toxic Haze would be a pretty cool choice for a Tactical bonus. It would set everyone's Dart on the same timer, instead of having to juggle Darts like we have to now as some of them fall off when others are just applied from Toxic Haze.
I already suggested a sort of refresh and honestly and it should be done in an expensive ability (energy terms).

Shirvington's Avatar


Shirvington
04.19.2019 , 01:52 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
I already suggested a sort of refresh and honestly and it should be done in an expensive ability (energy terms).
The more suggestions BW has the better as it's up to them which suggestion they take.

Also, a refresh doesn't have to be on an expensive energy ability as the choice of a Tactical unit is an opportunity cost choice. As in, what am I giving up to take this Tactical unit? There might be other tactical units with higher dps bonuses so even if the energy cost of the refresh ability is low, it still might be a bad choice in comparison to the other tactical units one can choose from.