I'm assuming devs don't want the (mostly deserted) 8v8 queue to be a win-trading, comm-farming-fest. I totally understand that. But I actually really enjoy 8v8, even though its alot of work, its really awesome to have a big group come together and achieve something. Having the option of queueing 8 for RWZ or 4 for ranked arenas will only increase the happiness of your players. So let's think of ways to prevent abuse, instead of canning 8v8 altogether?

 

I'll start:

-Remove ranked comms as a reward? Maybe just double reg comms or something?

-Separate 8v8 and 4v4 ratings?

-Shut down 8v8 on non-PVP servers but keep it on PVP servers?

 

As someone noted below, these are stupid ideas, but you get the idea?

 

EDIT: I did not expect this to stay up on the front page, here are some clarifications...

1. I am also SUPER EXCITED about arenas, I really don't want this to come off as an un-grateful cry-fest because as someone who is not on the same time zone as my server, a large chunk of my playtime is when most of my guildies are in bed, and we maybe have 2-4 people online.

 

2. Regarding the stated reasoning for removing 8v8 warzones:

> "Not enough people using the feature" This may be true on non-PVP servers, but on Pot5, we've never sat in a stale ranked queue during primetime. I would say the ranked scene on PVP servers is doing okay, we saw 3 new teams yesterday evening that we've never seen before (out of 5 games). I would argue that saying not enough people do ranked warzones to justify supporting it is like saying not enough people do top-tier raids to justify supporting that. I can see possibly a concern about leaving both formats in as options being detrimental to both queues, as it splits the population. My opinion is that 4v4 will make ranked accessible to so many more people, that the overall increase in population brought on my the new format and new/returning subs will more than nullify the occasional 16-32 people taking a break from the 4v4 queue for some 8v8 action.

> "We can't support it" IMO, I don't think RWZ as they are right now need much TLC. We're all used to the flaws and quirks by now and we can live with it. I'd maybe think of two things,

-- Use the matchmaking system developed for arenas in the RWZ queue. If it works, awesome. If it doesn't because of low participation, whatever, we're used to that too.

-- Fix the multi-disconnect issue. Again, this goes for arenas too anyway so its not like its any extra work.

 

That's all. Thanks for 2.4, bioware, its clear y'all put alot of love and time into it and I can't wait to jump on the PTS on Friday.

Edited August 14, 2013 by NadirPalo

Well, you can have win trading in 4v4 as well, so I still can't understand this decision.

http://i.imgur.com/3XwX47k.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3XwX47k.jpg

 

I'm stupid. :/

 

Also I'd think 4v4 would be too populated to allow for easy win-trading? Idk.

Edited August 14, 2013 by NadirPalo

In such a team-based game, being unable to choose every but of your comp is bad.

 

Having the option is definitely supported. Plus many guilds just transfered a couple of days ago for RWZs now they're gone

I can't really see a reason to can 8v8 ranked. Not enough people doing them is not a good reason. if that's the case, then you still don't need to disable them because they will take care of themselves. The only thing I can think of is trying to coral groups into the arenas for their ranking system, which might not align with what their 8v8 rating would be.

 

FYI I don't do ranked 8 mans. I just think it is silly when these have been important to so many who do for the past year +

Edited August 14, 2013 by Technohic

I agree this is the most stupid idea theyve had to date. Why remove it? I don't see any reason to change it. If its not broken don't fix it.

Maybe it's just to limit the number of different Qs. Now we have 2; reg and ranked. In the new arenas there will be 3; regs, solo ranked arenas and group ranked arenas. Maybe it really is in a place where they don't think the population would support a fourth, but I think they are going to create a bigger mess with people trying to super q regs. May not work as well with them being thrown into arenas against each other, but I bet there will be more attempts.

I agree this is the most stupid idea theyve had to date. Why remove it? I don't see any reason to change it. If its not broken don't fix it.

 

Did you wake up on the wrong side of last year? It's still preseason one. Ranked is/was broken. It's arguably the largest failure in the game's lifespan. It's virtually inaccessible to most of the playerbase. We have what, maybe 8 teams on pvp servers queueing a night. So 64 people doing ranked out of ten thousand plus per server. By any measure of success that is the opposite of what you want. Those 64 are crying pretty loudly, but it's a drop in the hat and perfectly reasonable to discontinue the colossal failure that is 8v8.

As someone who had a group of people who were beginning to get into the Ranked queue, it is disappointing to me that 8v8's are going away. But as a previous poster said, Ranked is inaccessible to a large portion of the servers it actually takes place on. I don't think it's a good choice, no, not at all, but personally, if I had to choose between 4v4 and 8v8 ranked, I would choose 4v4, as I'm basically unaffected by whatever happens to 8v8. That said, I think 8v8 should remain for those interested, and don't see any actual reason it should be removed, and believe it's a silly thing to do.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of last year? It's still preseason one. Ranked is/was broken. It's arguably the largest failure in the game's lifespan. It's virtually inaccessible to most of the playerbase. We have what, maybe 8 teams on pvp servers queueing a night. So 64 people doing ranked out of ten thousand plus per server. By any measure of success that is the opposite of what you want. Those 64 are crying pretty loudly, but it's a drop in the hat and perfectly reasonable to discontinue the colossal failure that is 8v8.

 

It is pre season one your right. But. People complain when guild premades role pug pvp hence they don't play ranked. What do you think will happen with 4v4's itll be even worse. So by keep 8v8 you can let the elites be elite and leave the dabble pvper be.

I personally hate deathmatch and had no plans to do it ranked, or normal. It is not fun for me. It's boring and takes less awareness and strategy. I now have no ranked to play :/ this makes me sad.

I'm stupid. :/

 

Also I'd think 4v4 would be too populated to allow for easy win-trading? Idk.

 

I am thinking he was referring to Bioware, not you.

If our only basis for removing aspects of the game is a lack of players using it then a lot of things would have been gone long ago.

 

Pretty much any non-daily heroic

Collicoid Wargames

Lethality Operatives

Outlaw's Den

Any non-class mission on Quesh

Gear with Presence on it

The PvP and Trade chat channels

I personally hate deathmatch and had no plans to do it ranked, or normal. It is not fun for me. It's boring and takes less awareness and strategy. I now have no ranked to play :/ this makes me sad.

 

I have to say that I was NOT overly excited about 4 man, nor team deathmatch style games; but at least it will be different and something tells me, less frustrating cause all my team has to do is go ahead and fight. Of course, I'm still not a fan of smaller and eventually it will likely be frustration about how they fight and over-extend, but it will at least be something different. PvP in this game DID need something fresh and different.

I didn't think the Ilum fiasco would ever be replicated, but here we go.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of last year? It's still preseason one. Ranked is/was broken. It's arguably the largest failure in the game's lifespan. It's virtually inaccessible to most of the playerbase. We have what, maybe 8 teams on pvp servers queueing a night. So 64 people doing ranked out of ten thousand plus per server. By any measure of success that is the opposite of what you want. Those 64 are crying pretty loudly, but it's a drop in the hat and perfectly reasonable to discontinue the colossal failure that is 8v8.

 

8v8 is what made the pvp in this game interesting. It's what currently keeps pvp alive on pve servers.

This is essentially killing it. They might as well remove the 8v8 warzones altogether. The number of people who leave warzones will be even higher now. As people looking for arenas will drop from 8v8, and people wanting 8v8 will drop from arenas. Why will I waste my time sitting through another ancient hypergate or novare coast if I am not getting anything other than a few regular wz comms for it?

 

The fact that 8v8 ranked is broken is inarguable. But what attempts were made to fix it? And why implement a solo ranked queue for 4v4? Could that not have been done for 8v8?

The problem is there is no good reason for your average pvper to do ranked. The amount of effort and coordination to perform well in ranked versus the rewards you get are laughable at best.

However, if you adjust the options for players... if you have ranked 8v8 matches with separate solo and 8man team queues, then the reward is that you get to continue to play the objective based gametype and earn the same rewards that you can in arenas. Maybe the 8v8 ranked matches will be few a far between, but at least you can queue solo and get grouped with people of similar mindset, that enjoy the 8v8 gameplay.

This would however bring the whole random grouping into play. And it was stated in the blog post that they weren't ready for matchmaking based on roles for 8v8.

 

I give up lol

Terrible mistake. As in...really bad. Maybe the biggest Eff-Up yet...although Nekkid Bolster was pretty bad.

 

2.4 the PvP Patch! Where we give you 4v4 Arenas, but take away your 8v8 Ranked! Don't fuss though. You're getting two more Operations! woohoo

Edited August 14, 2013 by DarthOvertone

Some additional thoughts, also added to the OP...

 

1. I am also SUPER EXCITED about arenas, I really don't want this to come off as an un-grateful cry-fest because as someone who is not on the same time zone as my server, a large chunk of my playtime is when most of my guildies are in bed, and we maybe have 2-4 people online.

 

2. Regarding the stated reasoning for removing 8v8 warzones:

> "Not enough people using the feature" This may be true on non-PVP servers, but on Pot5, we've never sat in a stale ranked queue during primetime. I would say the ranked scene on PVP servers is doing okay, we saw 3 new teams yesterday evening that we've never seen before (out of 5 games). I would argue that saying not enough people do ranked warzones to justify supporting it is like saying not enough people do top-tier raids to justify supporting that. I can see possibly a concern about leaving both formats in as options being detrimental to both queues, as it splits the population. My opinion is that 4v4 will make ranked accessible to so many more people, that the overall increase in population brought on my the new format and new/returning subs will more than nullify the occasional 16-32 people taking a break from the 4v4 queue for some 8v8 action.

> "We can't support it" IMO, I don't think RWZ as they are right now need much TLC. We're all used to the flaws and quirks by now and we can live with it. I'd maybe think of two things,

-- Use the matchmaking system developed for arenas in the RWZ queue. If it works, awesome. If it doesn't because of low participation, whatever, we're used to that too.

-- Fix the multi-disconnect issue. Again, this goes for arenas too anyway so its not like its any extra work.

 

That's all. Thanks for 2.4, bioware, its clear y'all put alot of love and time into it and I can't wait to jump on the PTS on Friday.

I'm fine with the idea of canning it in its current iteration, but it's a bit of a slap in the bollocks to those who built and maintained an 8 man team to remove it and have no replacement.

 

what harm would it do to leave it as is? until a replacement can be found?

 

4V4 ranked arenas...fantastic, and a truly welcome addition to the game, but your PR department needs to take itself out back and give itself a talking to if this was considered a good idea. It's completely taken the shine off the arenas for a lot of people and what could have garnered some much needed positivity from the community is now likely to be washed away by a negative and unnecessary change.

Ohh BW you never fail to surprise me, I will let you know how I feel about this change. this is coming from a very active pvper, and a since launch subber.

 

I do not like nor welcome this change at all and here is why.

 

I personally like ranked wzs and the ability of competeing in them, altho I don't do them that often having the choice of doing them is a plus for me. here is why I feel that way.

 

Ranked WZ's are objective orientated, its not a mindless slugfest that is somewhat FOTOM dependent save for HB which is monkey dependent in most cases. Ranked wz's encourages team play and it does not "for the most part make players shelve their toons if the team is balanced properly.

 

Removing ranked wzs for Arenas is silly here is why

 

Death match arenas have never been my favorite, infact I hate them. Death match arenas are generally a mindless slug fest, FOTOM / Gear dependant, forces players to play certain classes, causes over nerfing and in some cases under nerfing.

 

Why BW, WHY whould you remove a GUILD orientated event infavor of this? Don't get me wrong, if some folks want arenas and mindless slugfests then cudos to them give them what they want, but for me I like chalanges and team player orientated gameplay.

 

Most of the rants against premades have had the same counter, get some friends, join a pvp guild, L2P ect. so if some of those whom have been clamoring for death match mindless slug fest arenas agree that team play and play objectives should exist then why in gods name would you do the exact opposite of what everyone agrees upon?

 

I implore you to keep in these guild events, because if competitive gameplay has now come down to a selct few classes then whats the point of alienating your paying customers? here is what I see for 4V4 game play

 

Jug-assin-op-op

Jug-Mara-Op Op

PT(tank)-Assin Op-OP

Assin-Assin-OP-Op

 

any other class would be cannon fodder at this point, atleast with 8V8 ranked gameplay you can fit in the misfit classes and balance the team. at this point Death match pvp is pointless.

Ohh BW you never fail to surprise me, I will let you know how I feel about this change. this is coming from a very active pvper, and a since launch subber.

 

I do not like nor welcome this change at all and here is why.

 

I personally like ranked wzs and the ability of competeing in them, altho I don't do them that often having the choice of doing them is a plus for me. here is why I feel that way.

 

Ranked WZ's are objective orientated, its not a mindless slugfest that is somewhat FOTOM dependent save for HB which is monkey dependent in most cases. Ranked wz's encourages team play and it does not "for the most part make players shelve their toons if the team is balanced properly.

 

Removing ranked wzs for Arenas is silly here is why

 

Death match arenas have never been my favorite, infact I hate them. Death match arenas are generally a mindless slug fest, FOTOM / Gear dependant, forces players to play certain classes, causes over nerfing and in some cases under nerfing.

 

Why BW, WHY whould you remove a GUILD orientated event infavor of this? Don't get me wrong, if some folks want arenas and mindless slugfests then cudos to them give them what they want, but for me I like chalanges and team player orientated gameplay.

 

Most of the rants against premades have had the same counter, get some friends, join a pvp guild, L2P ect. so if some of those whom have been clamoring for death match mindless slug fest arenas agree that team play and play objectives should exist then why in gods name would you do the exact opposite of what everyone agrees upon?

 

I implore you to keep in these guild events, because if competitive gameplay has now come down to a selct few classes then whats the point of alienating your paying customers? here is what I see for 4V4 game play

 

Jug-assin-op-op

Jug-Mara-Op Op

PT(tank)-Assin Op-OP

Assin-Assin-OP-Op

 

any other class would be cannon fodder at this point, atleast with 8V8 ranked gameplay you can fit in the misfit classes and balance the team. at this point Death match pvp is pointless.

 

No offense, but from just this post alone i know you will get farmed in arena. Thx for posting though

No offense, but from just this post alone i know you will get farmed in arena. Thx for posting though

 

WOW such a counter to my post im sure BW will love your contribution.