Incorrect. Voss was first mentioned in relation to Harme Kiela's mother being a wealthy industrialist there. Harme Kiela is a character from the New Republic Era.

 

 

I was aware of that reference but am skeptical of this as I haven't seen any direct source. Doesn't mean its wrong but I haven't the time nor inclination (especially the inclination) to verify it

 

 

When they were deciding on planets for SWTOR they chose Voss because it was a planet from canon that had been given few details about it, so they could have an existing planet to fully flesh out.

 

So we know that Voss is still around in the New Republic Era, meaning Ske-Mor has not destroyed it.

 

 

This doesn't wholly refute the argument. Reason being:

 

 

We don't know what happened to it 3000+. Assuming that the reference is correct, we don't know the state of the planet since the Cold War, whether its referred to in hushed tones like Taris, a generic Republic planet like Alderaan or a fetid hell hole like Dromund Kaas. Dromund Kaas has some pretty scary stuff on its surface as well and somehow avoided outright destruction. Telos which was wiped clean by Malak's forces but after 3000+ years was resettled. We also don't know the extent of its powers or how long they take to manifest - see the Infinite Engine quest on Nar Shaddaa

Comments in red.

If you aren't willing to look this stuff up for yourself, I realyl don't see why I should bother to continue this conversation, but I will give you at least one more response.

Since you apparently don't want to bother looking Voss up in Wookiepedia, here is a developer's commentary on why they chose Voss. And here is the most relevant quote.

Looking at the holocron (Lucasarts’ extensive guide to all things canon and beyond) we find Voss. It says three thousand years after our timeline a starship pilot will hail from Voss and apparently several mothers throughout history named their kids after the planet. Okay, we can live with that. People name their kids “Dakota” and “Paris” right? Otherwise, it’s ours. Open for creativity. Let’s create a planet for our mystics.

Now that aside, let's look at what the actual LS/DS endings of Voss entail for each side since I have just double checked how they all play out.

I do agree that the storylines make it seem like a pretty clean Republic victory. However, in the 1.1 questline leading up to the Rakghoul flashpoint, the Imperial NPCs talk about how they

won Corellia and the Republic is on the ropes.

Are future content patches going to ignore the opposite faction storyline as well?

 

Let alone the mess with

Alderaan, where both sides take out Ulgo. One of those has to be non-canon.

Regarding Alderaan, Republic captured him:

If you aren't willing to look this stuff up for yourself, I realyl don't see why I should bother to continue this conversation, but I will give you at least one more response.

 

Since you apparently don't want to bother looking Voss up in Wookiepedia, here is a developer's commentary on why they chose Voss. And here is the most relevant quote.

Wow, why so mad bro?

If you actually read the entry you'd have seen that the reference to the NJO character is unsourced. That its referenced means nothing without seeing the original article.

Also the destruction of a planet does not invalidate its usefulness. Look at Peragus. Saying one obscure character (out of an entire cast in a lore) came from there means absolutely nothing. Hell the reborn Jedi Exile came from Peragus. Does that means that he comes from a place of population, trees, sunshines and rainbows?

Now that aside, let's look at what the actual LS/DS endings of Voss entail for each side since I have just double checked how they all play out.

 

 

DS Republic: The Repeublic provides assistance in destroying the Gormaak and the Voss provide commandos which join the war.

Ammbasador Jannikk: "Republic troops are in Gorma-Koss, and Voss commandos are boarding our ships. I knew I could count on you."

 

LS Republic: The Voss refrain from partaking in the conflict as they must dedicate their forces entirely to the reconcillitory effort and the Republic waits in the hopes of an alliance after the efforts are done.

Ammbasador Jannik: "I'm not giving up on the Voss. When they make peace with the Gormak, the Republic's going to be there."

 

DS Empire: The Voss break off relations with Republic entirely.

One of the Three: "We will halt all talks with the Republic until we know the truth."

 

LS Empire: Mystics are to meditate upon what you have learned, with it being implied to have the same result as that of the Republic LS answer.

One of the Three: "We will ask the Mystics to meditate upon this."

 

If you look at those endings it is pretty clear that the DS endings pretty much foreclose the possibility of either of the endings for the other sides. If the Empire DS ending occurs then the Voss won't speak with the Republic meaning that there is no way for either of those endigns to occurs. Likewise if the Republic ending occurs then the Voss will be at war with the Empire and wouldn't rely on an Imperial to bring them knowledge.

 

 

No it does not. Chronology plays a huge part here. You're assuming that it sets off on your own prejudged chronological path.

 

What if the Empire's emissary came during/after the Republic's events on Voss? The Voss commandos can always be recalled. Hell they might not have even left the planet, especially if the tight chronology of Corellia's considered.

 

 

With Darth Decimus getting slaughtered (almost) immediately after his victory celebration.

 

 

Your chronology is no more valid that it is invalid without further evidence.

 

 

The LS endings however reinforce one and other as it has them being told in the Imperial ending that they are the same species and then in the Republic ending that the way to end the war is to reconcile with their former brothers.

 

 

Adopting your chronology the LS ending makes even less sense. Assuming the Empires emissary came before the Republic's events on Voss, why would the Voss perpetuate the massacre of their own people on the face of the evidence? I mean the possibility for a species wide irrationality is there but its nonsensical.

 

Comments here in red.

Why no one mentioned Tatooine yet?

As Empire you

As Rebublic you

Now, I understand that the common solution is the first one.

But it still leaves the question - Who did it?

The Empire pretty much breaks the back of the Republic on Taris.

Well, we do kinda already know the republic survives, and the Sith empire does not...

I think there is some time between the Imperial world story on Correllia and between the republic's one.

When I did this part on my bh, Darth Tormen says in the story I should help Decimus first with capturing correllia, so I did that. Then I finished the BH story (froze the sup chancellor) and I got a mail from Tormen saying he and Decimus went to the dark council and that Decimus thought he would get all praise for capturing correllia untill Tormen presented the dark council with the frozen sup chancellor of the reps.

So I think there is some time between the imperial story and the republic story on correllia.

Regarding Alderaan, Republic captured him:

 

 

This is because Thul and Organa were pretty much in a stalemate throughout the story arc, and the civil war is not going to be won until there is only one house left standing. Therefore, seeing as Panteer would only back Organa if they killed Ulgo, and Organa (obviously) was never destroyed prior to episode 4, it's safe to assume Republic players took him out, and House Organa eventually won the civil war.

I disagree, Thul can win without completely destoying Organa. Organa does not have to be the ones to capture Ulgo in order to win, if they do win, and if they captured Ulgo that does not mean that they have won.

Wow, why so mad bro?

 

If you actually read the entry you'd have seen that the reference to the NJO character is unsourced. That its referenced means nothing without seeing the original article.

 

Also the destruction of a planet does not invalidate its usefulness. Look at Peragus. Saying one obscure character (out of an entire cast in a lore) came from there means absolutely nothing. Hell the reborn Jedi Exile came from Peragus. Does that means that he comes from a place of population, trees, sunshines and rainbows?

Comments here in red.

Please do not use that meme. I find it to be the most annoying meme that exists on the internet for some reason. >.> Also could you stop with the responding inside of of quotes. It makes it more difficult to respond to you and it isn't saving you any time or effort considering that you are using color tabs.

Now to yur actual comments, why would the Voss listen to the Imperial represenative at that point? The Gormak are being obliterated by the Republic forces and the Voss are effectively at war with the Empire because of their alliance. So the Voss are just going to take the word of someone they are at war with and break off relations completely with the people who bombing their mortal enemy? I don't think so.

As for my chronology, it is based on my observations on the reactions of the Three upon learnign the news from each side. For the Empire, one of the Three becomes completely outraged on this news and the Three basically say we need to go talk to the mystics about what this means. The Republic version, the one member of the Three who becoems outraged reacts much less severly(as though it wasn't as severe of a surprise) upon hearing the news and they immediatly decide to halt the war with the Gormak. So imo the way they fit together is that the mystic's response to the information brought back by the Imperial is a new prophecy saying that an outsider will find out how to beat the Gormak as they don't completely believe the Imperial agent. This results in the Republic prophecy portion of the world arc, and when they get confirmation from the second represenative they then have to accept it as the truth.

Why no one mentioned Tatooine yet?

As Empire you

either destroy Rakata prisoner or give to Sith scientists

 

As Rebublic you

either destroy him or give him to Czerka

 

Now, I understand that the common solution is the first one.

But it still leaves the question - Who did it?

*shrug* No real clues available and if the LS option was taken then it really doesn't matter. Although I am inclined to believe it was the Republic that got their first.

I think there is some time between the Imperial world story on Correllia and between the republic's one.

 

When I did this part on my bh, Darth Tormen says in the story I should help Decimus first with capturing correllia, so I did that. Then I finished the BH story (froze the sup chancellor) and I got a mail from Tormen saying he and Decimus went to the dark council and that Decimus thought he would get all praise for capturing correllia untill Tormen presented the dark council with the frozen sup chancellor of the reps.

 

So I think there is some time between the imperial story and the republic story on correllia.

In my mental timeline that I have semi constructed, the BH class story finishes up a good deal of time before the Corellia world arc actually finishes up for either side. Same goes for the SW and SI class stories.

Please do not use that meme. I find it to be the most annoying meme that exists on the internet for some reason. >.> Also could you stop with the responding inside of of quotes. It makes it more difficult to respond to you and it isn't saving you any time or effort considering that you are using color tabs.

If the occasion warrants it, it'll be used. Ergo me using all of the above devices.

Now to yur actual comments, why would the Voss listen to the Imperial represenative at that point? The Gormak are being obliterated by the Republic forces and the Voss are effectively at war with the Empire because of their alliance. So the Voss are just going to take the word of someone they are at war with and break off relations completely with the people who bombing their mortal enemy? I don't think so.

Are you honestly saying that no faction has ever switched sides in a war? Especially when something embarrassing comes to light?

As for my chronology, it is based on my observations on the reactions of the Three upon learnign the news from each side. For the Empire, one of the Three becomes completely outraged on this news and the Three basically say we need to go talk to the mystics about what this means. The Republic version, the one member of the Three who becoems outraged reacts much less severly(as though it wasn't as severe of a surprise) upon hearing the news and they immediatly decide to halt the war with the Gormak.

 

So that shows that he's a republic sympathiser.

 

So imo the way they fit together is that the mystic's response to the information brought back by the Imperial is a new prophecy saying that an outsider will find out how to beat the Gormak as they don't completely believe the Imperial agent. This results in the Republic prophecy portion of the world arc, and when they get confirmation from the second represenative they then have to accept it as the truth.

I'm not following your logic... How does it fit in? How does a dissenting/assenting voice on the Three equate to that scenario?

You also make no reference to my other points.

Regarding Alderaan, Republic captured him:

 

 

This is because Thul and Organa were pretty much in a stalemate throughout the story arc, and the civil war is not going to be won until there is only one house left standing. Therefore, seeing as Panteer would only back Organa if they killed Ulgo, and Organa (obviously) was never destroyed prior to episode 4, it's safe to assume Republic players took him out, and House Organa eventually won the civil war.

House Thul DO still exist as far as the Original Trilogy and beyond it though. They're in the Dark Nest trilogy which is set after RotJ. Yes, this is only in the EU but they're still there and mentioned as being a noble house on Alderaan prior to its destruction.

I disagree, Thul can win without completely destoying Organa. Organa does not have to be the ones to capture Ulgo in order to win, if they do win, and if they captured Ulgo that does not mean that they have won.

 

You really think Thul won? Given how powerful Organa remained thousands of years later? Even if they don't completely destroy the other house, whichever side wins the war would cripple the other side immensely. Assuming Thul could have won given how much history after this time period we know is foolish.

And yes, capturing Ulgo would have been a major factor in Organa gaining an advantage. As I already said, they were in a stalemate. Said stalemate is likely to have only been broken with help, and Organa only gets that help from House Panteer IF and only IF they capture Ulgo.

Are you honestly saying that no faction has ever switched sides in a war? Especially when something embarrassing comes to light?

No I am saying that it doesn't make any sense for the Voss to listen to anything that the Empire has to say at this point if the Republic is there taking over the stronghold of their mortal enemies for the Voss.

I'm not following your logic... How does it fit in? How does a dissenting/assenting voice on the Three equate to that scenario?

The "dissenting member of the three" does not like the implication on either side. He reacts stornger on the Imperial side than he does on the Republic side, which I am using as a partial basis for my timing on how I believe the canon series of events played out.

My actual reasoning is that the results of the LS decisions are implied to be the same between the two factions while the DS endings require the endings of the other side to be invalidated to some degree(or perhaps it would be better worded as the result of the ending being undone) for them to work. I believe that the proper way to figure out the canon for all stories in the game are to find the resolutions that don't require entire endings for other stories to be invalidated(or the "results" of them to be undone).

You also make no reference to my other points.

If I missed anything important it is because the post format was difficult to respond to. So....sorry? *shrug*

You really think Thul won? Given how powerful Organa remained thousands of years later? Even if they don't completely destroy the other house, whichever side wins the war would cripple the other side immensely. Assuming Thul could have won given how much history after this time period we know is foolish.

 

And yes, capturing Ulgo would have been a major factor in Organa gaining an advantage. As I already said, they were in a stalemate. Said stalemate is likely to have only been broken with help, and Organa only gets that help from House Panteer IF and only IF they capture Ulgo.

I have no strong opinion at the moment as to who won the war. I do believe that there is evidence to suggest that House Thul was the canon capturers of Ulgo and no evidence to suggest that House Organa overcame Thul. However just because Thul gains an advantage during a statemate doesn't mean that House Organna can't gain an advantage at a later date that they use to win.

 

 

I have no strong opinion at the moment as to who won the war. I do believe that there is evidence to suggest that House Thul was the canon capturers of Ulgo and no evidence to suggest that House Organa overcame Thul. However just because Thul gains an advantage during a statemate doesn't mean that House Organna can't gain an advantage at a later date that they use to win.

The only evidence you posed for Thul capturing Ulgo was their positioning, as if that matters when they're all within a kilometer or two of the Castle. Poor evidence if you ask me

The only evidence you posed for Thul capturing Ulgo was their positioning, as if that matters when they're all within a kilometer or two of the Castle. Poor evidence if you ask me

It isn't positioning. It is that there is an Imperial quest specifically about ruining the Organna assault on Ulgo.

No I am saying that it doesn't make any sense for the Voss to listen to anything that the Empire has to say at this point if the Republic is there taking over the stronghold of their mortal enemies for the Voss.

So in essence you are saying that factions never switch sides. It is very possible for the Voss to reconsider their position if evidence of a past atrocity comes to light. Defeating a stronghold does not end the threat of their mortal enemies. They haven't exactly enacted a genocide on the Gornak have they?

The "dissenting member of the three" does not like the implication on either side. He reacts stornger on the Imperial side than he does on the Republic side, which I am using as a partial basis for my timing on how I believe the canon series of events played out.

Maybe he had a really bad day? Maybe he just doesn't like the Imperials/has sympathies with the Republic? There are plenty of reasons for someone to dismiss one idea stronger than the other. His tone in isolation means nothing.

My actual reasoning is that the results of the LS decisions are implied to be the same between the two factions while the DS endings require the endings of the other side to be invalidated to some degree(or perhaps it would be better worded as the result of the ending being undone) for them to work. I believe that the proper way to figure out the canon for all stories in the game are to find the resolutions that don't require entire endings for other stories to be invalidated(or the "results" of them to be undone).

Assuming that it does in fact invalidate them. You also assume that the decisions in an ending is set in stone and that nothing can happen later on to alter its outcome.

The Empire pretty much breaks the back of the Republic on Taris.

This is what pisses me off. All that hardwork only to find out that imps end up winning. Same goes to Balmorra with Republic victory. Almost like a "LOL TOO BAD, U MAD?" from BioWare.

This is what pisses me off. All that hardwork only to find out that imps end up winning. Same goes to Balmorra with Republic victory. Almost like a "LOL TOO BAD, U MAD?" from BioWare.

Actually, that discovery was just the capstone on what we discover as Republic players DURING the Taris part -- the story seen through the cairns is just heart-wrenching -- that NOTHING that Revan (that is, you, the player of KoTOR) did on Taris has achieved anything beyond prolonging the suffering of one group, and may well have been the cause of the deaths of billions by driving Malak to bombard the planet. And that again is echoed with us freeing Revan from the Maelstrom prison, only for him to head for the dark side and then be killed off (maybe...) by an Imperial strike team.

Pretty depressing stuff for the Republic, and possibly part of what lead to the server population imbalance, if the Empire is portrayed generally as winning AND as being "cooler".

So in essence you are saying that factions never switch sides. It is very possible for the Voss to reconsider their position if evidence of a past atrocity comes to light. Defeating a stronghold does not end the threat of their mortal enemies. They haven't exactly enacted a genocide on the Gornak have they?

Sure it is possible that the Voss could reconsider their position....but the circumstances you are describing under which they would be changing their mind are ridiculous. The closest hypothetical equivilent I can think of would be the British breaking all diplomatic relations with America shortly after D-Day because they got a telegraph from the Japanese saying that it was an American plot that killed Archduke Ferdinand of Austria without providing any evidence to support the claim. That is roughly the situation we are talking about with Voss here.

A baseless claim from an enemy is not going to destroy a beneficial relationship between two powers. At least not that quickly. And lets not kid ourselves, the Imperial claim is completely baseless. They have no evidence to back it up, just the word of a single soldier who heard from a ghost. We know it is true, but that doesn't mean it would hold much weight without any support.

Maybe he had a really bad day? Maybe he just doesn't like the Imperials/has sympathies with the Republic? There are plenty of reasons for someone to dismiss one idea stronger than the other. His tone in isolation means nothing.

*shrug* This was just to explain my reasoning for my timing with regards to what I view the canon series of events to be.

Assuming that it does in fact invalidate them. You also assume that the decisions in an ending is set in stone and that nothing can happen later on to alter its outcome.

No I'm not. I believe that when trying to determine the canon, the canon should be assumed to be the paths for the quests where the results invalidate each other the least. If that assumption isn't made then there is no evidence that exists to determine the canon and any discussions on what is canon therefore becomes pointless and a waste of time.

Actually, that discovery was just the capstone on what we discover as Republic players DURING the Taris part -- the story seen through the cairns is just heart-wrenching -- that NOTHING that Revan (that is, you, the player of KoTOR) did on Taris has achieved anything beyond prolonging the suffering of one group, and may well have been the cause of the deaths of billions by driving Malak to bombard the planet. And that again is echoed with us freeing Revan from the Maelstrom prison, only for him to head for the dark side and then be killed off (maybe...) by an Imperial strike team.

 

Pretty depressing stuff for the Republic, and possibly part of what lead to the server population imbalance, if the Empire is portrayed generally as winning AND as being "cooler".

The Republic wins on Balmorra, and that is a much mroe important location that Taris, so I hardly think the deafeat in Cahpter 2 on Taris had any serious impact on the server imbalance.

Sure it is possible that the Voss could reconsider their position....but the circumstances you are describing under which they would be changing their mind are ridiculous. The closest hypothetical equivilent I can think of would be the British breaking all diplomatic relations with America shortly after D-Day because they got a telegraph from the Japanese saying that it was an American plot that killed Archduke Ferdinand of Austria without providing any evidence to support the claim. That is roughly the situation we are talking about with Voss here.

No a closer example would be Russia fighting their ally Germany because Germany betrayed them.

Just because you cannot comprehend the scenario doesn't make it ridiculous. Moreover it is almost as ridiculous to suggest that fighting a particular threat with a faction warrants their undivided, unyielding loyalty. Hell the Americans helped the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and that didn't exactly work out well did it?

A baseless claim from an enemy is not going to destroy a beneficial relationship between two powers. At least not that quickly. And lets not kid ourselves, the Imperial claim is completely baseless. They have no evidence to back it up, just the word of a single soldier who heard from a ghost. We know it is true, but that doesn't mean it would hold much weight without any support.

There's also that ancient device which talked about the Sith Jedi war. It was mentioned that it hadn't been fully translated. It's very likely (depending on who actually wrote it) that the details of this will be discussed. Given that its in Sith hands at the end of the story, bets are that it very much will be discussed in a particular way.

*shrug* This was just to explain my reasoning for my timing with regards to what I view the canon series of events to be.

Ok but its a pretty shaky foundation to the solid claim you're making.

No I'm not. I believe that when trying to determine the canon, the canon should be assumed to be the paths for the quests where the results invalidate each other the least.

What you're essentially saying is that endings are absolute so long as they don't invalidate each other. Ultimately paths will invalidate each other in a natural way (counter attack, new developments, etc.). Otherwise you might as well say that Darth Decimus conquered Corellia the end. Developments could and did happen leading t the Republic killing him. Similarly, in the future, the Empire might strike back and reclaim Corellia.

If that assumption isn't made then there is no evidence that exists to determine the canon and any discussions on what is canon therefore becomes pointless and a waste of time.

With the absence of further evidence discussion on objective canon is completely pointless. Which is basically what I've been saying all along. That doesn't invalidate discussion on canon, however, just makes objective "this is the definite situation" answers false.

The Republic wins on Balmorra, and that is a much mroe important location that Taris, so I hardly think the deafeat in Cahpter 2 on Taris had any serious impact on the server imbalance.

Do they? Balmorra is within Empire territory and thus within striking distance. Balmorras assets are one small orbital bombardment away from being utterly useless. Taris represented a massive investment in resources and (presumably promised) prospective refugee colony, a critical problem for the Republic as shown on Coruscant. Without it they'll have a lot of angry, homeless and poor sentients out for a roof on their head. Hell if Coruscants hit by an arab spring esque riot the Republic would be in trouble.

*sigh* Can we just agree to disagree? Clearly neither of us is budging on the Voss thing, and I doubt another ten pages of discussion on this is going to make a difference to either of us.

Do they? Balmorra is within Empire territory and thus within striking distance. Balmorras assets are one small orbital bombardment away from being utterly useless. Taris represented a massive investment in resources and (presumably promised) prospective refugee colony, a critical problem for the Republic as shown on Coruscant. Without it they'll have a lot of angry, homeless and poor sentients out for a roof on their head. Hell if Coruscants hit by an arab spring esque riot the Republic would be in trouble.

O_o Balmorra is in the Coreworlds. It is infact closer to Hutt space than it is to The Seat of the Empire. I know it was part of the Empire during the time of the treaty, but that doesn't mean it is easy for them to get to it now.

And Drommund Kaas is one orbital bombardment away from being utterly useless. Alderaaan is one orbital bombardment away from being utterly useless. Every planet is one orbital bombarment away from being a new Taris except for Hoth and Tatooine because there is barely anything to destroy on those planets. Saying that an orbital bombardment would render a planet useless hardly strips the gain from the vistory unless we want to go nihilistic and say that every victory in the game was utterly useless.

And Taris was at least a decade away from being able to absorb any serious amount of refugees. Was the Taris a set back? Yes, but gaining Balmorra is of larger benefit to the war effort.

Edit: Just logged ina bit ago, and it seems the Galaxy Map on the website has different placement of the planets compared to the in game one. >.> So ignore my comment about Balmorra being closer to Hutt space than Imperial space. I think it might still be true but the difference if it is there isn't enough to warrant the comment. I stand by the rest of the post though.