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Inquisitor and Consular Class Changes in 6.1.1 - Feedback

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Inquisitor and Consular Class Changes in 6.1.1 - Feedback
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srtyab's Avatar


srtyab
03.05.2020 , 06:47 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DanielSteed View Post
Hello everyone!



4 piece: The cooldown of Recklessness / Force Potency is reduced by 15 seconds. Whenever you activate Recklessness / Force Potency you gain Reckless Critical, making your next Maul / Shadow Strike or Leeching Strike / Serenity Strike critically hit

Let us know what your thoughts! Please tell us if you think certain changes make a class overpowered or underpowered. Throughout the next week or so, a thread for Troopers/Bounty Hunters will be created with their respective changes too.

Hate the change. Basically no point in playing assassin anymore, and its not like we were top dps to begin with. Huge hit to dps. I should get something in return, i.e. high damage, for wearing tissue paper armor. Thanks for making us a joke. Why do assassins keep getting screwed with their pants on? its really annoying.

Tuturro's Avatar


Tuturro
03.05.2020 , 07:03 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by srtyab View Post
Hate the change. Basically no point in playing assassin anymore, and its not like we were top dps to begin with. Huge hit to dps. I should get something in return, i.e. high damage, for wearing tissue paper armor. Thanks for making us a joke. Why do assassins keep getting screwed with their pants on? its really annoying.
We keep getting nerfed even though we're never top tier DPS, go figure
Qn

Apply May Cry, The Red Eclipse

ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
03.05.2020 , 07:29 PM | #13
so I ran some quick parses on sorc

changes on sorc will make each of those sorc specs parse about 22k on average +/- 500 on crit fyi, sure if you get lucky on crit you maybe you hit 23k on like 1/1000 parses on 6.5mil; yeah and force speed to alacrity change is dumb and clunky, basically unduly penalized to make a mechanic more clunky

this changes don't really affect madness it is the same, lightning gets a noticeable nerf to damage.
ref http://www.swtor.com/r/gFbhFZ Melisen / Sage Zrella / Sorc

rayneneverwind's Avatar


rayneneverwind
03.05.2020 , 07:38 PM | #14
[INC Wall of Text warning]

Can we at least get the spelling of the 6 piece on Gathering Storm through a spell check please? [EDIT: Spellcheck has been run, thank you!]

On a more serious note, I'm very concerned about these changes. I'm downloading the PTS now to do some personal testing, but as a lightning sorc, I'm fearful that the 50% nerf to the PS proc will be more harm than good. Granted, for the last, Lord knows however long, we've done a lot more with a lot less, but 6.0 finally put sorc dps on the map as a solid choice for DPS. I'm not going to continue further, as I haven't tested it for myself, but I'm concerned that this will drop sorcs back into the middle tier of "Why bring a sorc when you can bring xx".

Which leads into my second point of concern: Sorc/Sage healers. I've had the privilege to speak privately to some of the best sorc healers in the game and there is a general consensus that these changes, while in a decent direction, have some serious issues.

I'm going to quote something sent to me in a conversation by one of those sorc healers, who now mains a merc:

Quote:
Since the inception of Sorc healer, they've always been the direct middle ground. Operatives could raid heal with some minor burst here and there, mercs could burst heal with some minor raid heals here and there. Sorcs could do both things very well but not as good. And that was perfectly okay, that was a niche that really needed filling as it allowed you be to flexible depending upon the skill level of the group and the way the fight was designed.

As of this latest major game update, mercs are the kings of burst and have exceptionally great raid healing between prog scan, hot gas, and kolto missile with honorable mentions to their kolto shell. Operatives raid healing is just about as better as its ever been, but with the same great potential to do mini-bursts as needed.

Where this places sorc is still in that middle ground, except the issue is their burst is not as good nor is their raid wide healing. Meaning a merc will single target/burst/raid heal better than a sorc in every situation, and an operative will put out more consistently higher numbers over a longer stretch assuming each class is played at an equivalent skill level.

With this, it begs the question: Why bring a sorc? These changes further push that into the light as they have had their Heal Over Time effects increased, which was never something that Sorc focused on, while increasing their single target slightly, while drastically hampering their raid healing. This places them still drastically under a merc for both burst AND raid, and drastically under an Operative for raid while only slightly bridging the gap for single target/burst. Reducing the force cost was nice, but force management was never really an issue for a sorc that learned how to manage stacks and use Consume correctly.
So, the TLDR for both roles for sorc with these changes is: Will these changes once more have the community asking the question "Why bring a sorc?"

Also, it's imperative to note that it's not a direct call to nerf merc/op healers. I know sorc healers out shined literally everyone for a while in 5.x and it's good to let mercs/ops have their time in the sun. However, we (and I mostly mean the NiM community and I think the Ranked PVP community, but please correct me if I'm wrong) already don't bring a sorc healer into a group if we can or if their co-healer isn't strong enough to fill in the gaps, and with these changes, sorc healers will be hurting even more. I think the percentile changes are too drastic and the change of the 4p of Revitalized Mystics hurts too much. But again, this is all speculation and personal opinion. Hopefully when I manage to get on the PTS I will be able to either change or reiterate these concerns.
Creator and Host of Entering Operations
The Rann Legacy: Satele Shan
The Exoci Legacy: Star Forge
May the 4rd be with you.
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DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
03.05.2020 , 07:50 PM | #15
I would love to know what the intent is with the buffs to DPS vs the nerf to set bonuses. Do you want to redistribute damage from the set bonus or do you want damage output to be nerfed? Right now it seems like both specs for sorc will be nerfed a bit, especially Madness. For Assassin, it's harder to tell and are the Hatred changes to Languishing Lashes and Severing Slash supposed to be in addition to how those specs currently work or are they replacing those passives?

I am very excited about these healer changes.

Tactical Items
These items seem much better than what sorc had before, though it will really depend on how well they're balanced. Storm's Succor + Endless Offensive set bonus could definitely turn sorc healing into easy mode with so many strong smart heals.
The roaming mend tactical is a welcome addition, though I imagine the overall healing output with that tactical equipped won't end up being much higher than it is right now since the base healing amount is getting reduced so much. I do think it's for the better that you're moving some of the healing output away from Roaming Mend though, it's too good in single target situations and with an extra charge, it would be even stronger. I still think this tactical will likely be the default choice.
The Revivification tactical is an interesting idea, though you can't rely on players deliberately standing in it until the end on a lot of fights and that's the very reason that Revivification was changed to provide HoTs in the first place. I think I would only use it on fights where everyone remains stacked in the same spot for most of the fight or only moves at very predictable times, like Styrak, Corruptor Zero, or Tyrans. The healing done will have to be pretty high to get sorc healers to use it too, it should be way stronger than the old All for One and One for All tacticals.

Set Bonuses
I'm really happy you're changing Empowered Restorer, in order to properly utilize that set, you needed to heal in the exact opposite way that you're supposed to heal. I am a bit confused about how the new 6 piece works though. Does Sustaining Darkness just activate immediately, or is it a separate heal? If it's the latter, make sure that it gets applied before Sustaining Darkness does. Also, how large are each of these heals? I'm also a bit concerned since the heals on the bubble go against how the bubble is supposed to be used. If you're bubbling someone, you can't guarantee that they'll benefit from the heal. Perhaps the 6 piece would be better if it just increased the number of Sustaining Darkness stacks you get instead.

The Revitalized Mystic set seems worse than how it works now, though it's a bit unclear how much it was doing before since the set bonus wasn't/isn't very specific about numbers. Full ticks of Resurgence instead of half is much worse than a significant cooldown reduction on Innervate. It's clear that this set is focused on healing tanks, and that's fine, but it's just not strong enough given how specialized it is.

Right now, I'd probably pick either the Empowered Restorer or Endless Offensive set.

Healing Changes
I LOVE that Force Surge no longer affects Revivification, it was super annoying having to consume before using Revivification, but I really don't think that an instant Revivification is very useful in raiding. An AoE HoT is the exact opposite of single target burst. Revivification is ultimately for maintaining health, not saving someone's life, so there shouldn't be any situations where you can't just wait to use it until you stop moving. Perhaps it's more helpful in PvP, but as is, I won't be using Force Bending on Revivification ever. You could make things a bit more interesting though if you made it so that the new Revivification tactical item makes it so that if you use Force Bending with Revivification, the healing explosion happens at the beginning instead of the end. It would also be really nice if you could make the circle accurately represent the actual size of the AoE, it's currently like half the size.

It seems like you guys want Dark Heal to be stronger, which is fine. I like the idea of it being a more viable emergency heal. The Penetrating Darkness change to increase the critical chance of Dark Heal is counterproductive though since you won't get to benefit from that passive at all if you choose to use Force Bending or Recklessness with Dark Heal. As I'm sure you know, supercrits only work if the ability is an autocrit and both of those things only increase critical chance by 60%, so that extra 10% critical chance from Penetrating Darkness won't help in those instances. All you'd need to do to fix it would be to change it so that Penetrating Darkness increases critical healing dealt instead of critical chance.

While it is an improvement, Dark Infusion is still going to be a worse choice for Force Bending than Innervate, Roaming Mend, and probably Dark Heal as well after the buffs it's getting. Since you can't reduce the cast time any further since you're limited by the GCD, I think you'd need to buff Dark Infusion in some other way as well. Maybe it applies some sort of HoT as well.

Other things I would like to see
Volt Rush is still terrible for DPS. The Rushdown tactical for Madness makes your DPS lower than what it would be if you didn't use a tactical at all (haven't tried it with the Endless Offensive Set bonus yet, though it still isn't enough for it to compete).

Buff the other sorc taticals. The Endless Barrier tactical item should be buffed so Unnatural Preservation removes the Deionized effect from everyone you've applied it to (or maybe also just whoever you're targeting), instead of just yourself. An Explosive Return should deal a lot more damage. A Healing Hand should just be reworked. Resurgence is already pretty cheap and Extrication is so rarely used that no one in their right mind would choose that tactical.

Electric Induction is a pointless sorc passive now. I noticed when I was reading through the Force cost changes and I noticed that they didn't line up with the in-game tooltips. It's just needlessly confusing now when trying to read patch notes. The only shared abilities it affects are Death Field, Creeping Terror, Shock, Force Slow, Whirlwind, and Electrocute. It only reduces the force cost of the latter 3 abilities by 1 over their Assassin counterparts! All you'd need to do is permanently reduce the Force costs of all sorc abilities by 10% and then Death Field and Creeping Terror exist both in Hatred and Madness, which you could fix it by adding "Reduces the Force cost of Death Field and Creeping Terror by 10%" on the Force Horrors discipline passive in Madness and make it so that Convulsing Currents in Lightning also reduces the Force cost of Shock by 10%.

Yojadi's Avatar


Yojadi
03.05.2020 , 07:54 PM | #16
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Assassin is already the worst DPS in the game in PVE, MAYBE Arsenal has them beat but Arsenal is ranged with tons of DCDs/heals so they're still useful. Lightning once again, isn't even in the top 5 of specs.

Time after time again Bioware proves why they don't deserve to have a successful MMO and why their game is in the dead state it's in.
They listen to the minority of the playerbase which is PVP to nerf things. The funny thing is that all the kids crying about "Op/Broken" classes in PVP aren't even the actual good pvp players doing ranked; it's the garbage kids who click all their abilities and these changes will do NOTHING, they'll still be on here crying the next day about a diff class being OP cause they're just terrible regardless who or what you nerf.
So grats bioware, you have no idea what you're doing.... but we already knew that didn't we?

septru's Avatar


septru
03.05.2020 , 07:55 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by rayneneverwind View Post
Also, it's imperative to note that it's not a direct call to nerf merc/op healers. I know sorc healers out shined literally everyone for a while in 5.x and it's good to let mercs/ops have their time in the sun. However, we (and I mostly mean the NiM community and I think the Ranked PVP community, but please correct me if I'm wrong) already don't bring a sorc healer into a group if we can or if their co-healer isn't strong enough to fill in the gaps, and with these changes, sorc healers will be hurting even more.
Thank you for mentioning the ranked pvp community because for the most part, these changes are all pve focused. With the exception to the death knell set bonus, the changes to damage dealing classes and set bonuses primarily effect pve, and if they effect pvp in a positive way then that is just an added bonus.

With that said however, pvp healing (especially ranked) is much lower to pve healing than most people like to imagine. To make a very complex and long story short, healing in pvp mimics the "parsing" that occurs in pve healing. So these healing changes are the closest to pvp changes that we get. I'm not complaining. In my personal opinion, healing changes were the most important changes pvp needed. I'm merely noting that in this field, adequate healing changes are desired by both sides of the community.
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."
The only real top 3 operative btw

rayneneverwind's Avatar


rayneneverwind
03.05.2020 , 08:04 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
Thank you for mentioning the ranked pvp community because for the most part, these changes are all pve focused. With the exception to the death knell set bonus, the changes to damage dealing classes and set bonuses primarily effect pve, and if they effect pvp in a positive way then that is just an added bonus.

With that said however, pvp healing (especially ranked) is much lower to pve healing than most people like to imagine. To make a very complex and long story short, healing in pvp mimics the "parsing" that occurs in pve healing. So these healing changes are the closest to pvp changes that we get. I'm not complaining. In my personal opinion, healing changes were the most important changes pvp needed. I'm merely noting that in this field, adequate healing changes are desired by both sides of the community.
I don't ranked PVP myself but I really couldn't have said this any better. Both sides of the field in endgame should be looked at for this issue. Balancing is delicate process and often it's either to one side or the other.
Creator and Host of Entering Operations
The Rann Legacy: Satele Shan
The Exoci Legacy: Star Forge
May the 4rd be with you.
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iFenris's Avatar


iFenris
03.05.2020 , 08:12 PM | #19
What is up with the pointless Death Knell change?

Urthal's Avatar


Urthal
03.05.2020 , 08:24 PM | #20
Why are you splitting the bad six piece Revitalized Mystic set bonus in two and using half of it to replace the good 4 piece bonus? That's a terrible change.

Guess I'll go deconstruct my Revitalized Mystic set now.