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Tactician operative stealth nerf yet no compensation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Tactician operative stealth nerf yet no compensation

UltraFlashStar's Avatar


UltraFlashStar
03.11.2020 , 10:34 AM | #71
Iím fine with the nerfs to my main (Scoundrel) and Iím actually looking forward to it. To many people playing it nowadays. Like it back in 5.0 where there was a decently small/medium number of Scoundrel/Operatives.

Yesterday I had a normal reg match, where 10/16 of the match was all Operatives/Scoundrels.
Coppes
STAR WARS: The Last Ruffian

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
03.11.2020 , 04:19 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Can you write more specifics?
From the theorycrafting discord:

Concealment
Prey on the Weak
Old: Laceration deals 5% more damage to targets affected by your Acid Blade.
New: Laceration deals 10% more damage to targets affected by your Acid Blade.

Calculated Frenzy
Old: Backstab grants Calculated Frenzy, which increases ranged and tech critical chance by 5% for 15 seconds. In addition, damage dealt by Veiled Strike causes the target to become susceptible for 45 seconds. Susceptible targets take 5% more damage from tech attacks."
New: Backstab grants Calculated Frenzy, which increases ranged and tech critical chance by 10% for 15 seconds. In addition, damage dealt by Veiled Strike causes the target to become susceptible for 45 seconds. Susceptible targets take 5% more damage from tech attacks.

Lethality
Cut Down
Old: Increases the damage dealt by Lethal Strike, Overload Shot, and Noxious Knives by 5%.
New: Increases the damage dealt by Lethal Strike, Overload Shot, and Noxious Knives by 15%.

Acidic Compounds
Old: Toxic Blast deals 5% more damage and Corrosive Grenade has a 10% chance to deal its damage twice whenever it harms a target.
New: Toxic Blast deals 10% more damage and Corrosive Grenade has a 10% chance to deal its damage twice whenever it harms a target.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
03.11.2020 , 11:54 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
SHOULD i remind you again i have four top 3 characters and 6 gold classes while you play regs? L2p issue is YOUR ISSUE, those who aren't ranked players can't talk about skill issues.

Iam saying what IS FAIR considering that fotm spots look like this: sin>oper>sorc/mara there is NO REASON TO COMPENSATE NERFS ONLY TO SORC AND Sin while oper gets only NERF. I know it is difficult to understand this for a player who is more busy with carrying balls to enemy base or capturing turrets on alderaan instead of fighting skilled players on the edge of maximum power so keep your comments back pls. You should comment on how unbalanced sin double sap is when they capture grass while two enemies guarding it
If your class wasnít also at the top of the meta, I wouldnít have said L2P. I also wouldnít have said it if you werenít on the best 1v1 class in the game.

And I think you know why I canít play ranked, but let me explain it before you go throwing the old ďyouíre a reg player and donít countĒ argument back in my face.
Itís not because I donít want to, itís because my ping is so Fíing high that itís impossible. Half the time Iím dead before my DCD even activates or I have to guess whatís about to happen, which leads to mistakes. Even if I donít get globaled because of the lag, my Dps suffers because of the lag. ie, I will never, ever get the leap in first on my Jugg or Mara vs another Warrior (unless their lag is even worse than mine). That example goes for many situations.
So instead of me getting raged at in ranked for lower than expected dps or making mistakes (due to guessing), I stick to a format that doesnít affect peopleís ratings in ranked, which Iím sure you would be grateful for if I was on your team.
But none of that means I canít play or donít know anything.

The only reason Iíve even commented in this thread is because of that silly thread you made about Sorcs needing more of a nerf. Because you then come here and demand a buff for yourself.
It sounds to me like sins and Sorcs give you problems and if you are on an operative, then it is a L2P issue. Which I didnít necessarily mean you need to L2P, and I probably should have said, learn to get better against better players. Because if those classes are constantly beating you, then itís the players being better or the better players are mainly playing those classes.

You need to decide wether you should ask for a buff for operatives or demand Sorcs get nerfed more. Because when you come to the forums and make two threads that demand both, it really does look like you want your own class to be the FOTM class so you can dominate everyone else.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
03.12.2020 , 12:52 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
For better or worse, balance in this game affects both pvp and pve. But ranked pvp is the only place it actually matters, because the different classes directly compete against each other. As long as every class can make the necessary dps/heal checks and clear all the content, the dps hierarchy for pve really doesn't matter except to people that only play "meta" classes all the time.
I disagree and you know Iím a keen pvp. Every class needs to be balanced for pve and pvp to full fill the ďroleĒ they are supposed to represent. ie all healing classes should be able to do the same HPS or they arenít viable in pve content and will be left out of raids if the other classes perform better.

The problem as I see it is Bioware donít have the correct methodology of balancing classes. Itís totally flawed for both pve and pvp because itís all done on training dummies and not actual combat that shows how good or bad the class is when good players use them. They also donít do the DPS/HPS balancing in conjunction with Survivability or special talents at the same time.

This is where the problems begin and are then Amplified when they try and balance across pve and pvp. Which can also be broken down into ranked pvp vs objective pvp vs story pve vs veteran pve vs master mode pve.
Different parts of the game require different tactics and some classes perform better or worse than others when those different play styles are used.

Bioware have the means to fix it and could change this by splitting the utilities and adding a second skill tree that is seperate for pvp.
They could also make gear sets that work better in pvp and others that work better in pve. People could still wear either, but BiS would be to use the ones designed for the content.
Itís not like they didnít have time to do this when you consider how many worthless generic sets they actually made for 6.0. They could have removed half those sets and spent the time making specific content sets. Then they could have used them to better balance the classes around the different content.

I really do not think pvp (ranked or otherwise) is more important with balancing. And I donít agree with your assessment that it matters more in pvp.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Except sorc is not nearly on the same level as deception sin and concealment op lol. This isn't up for debate, you're just posting nonsense.
On this we agree. sins and Ops are higher in the hierarchy.
And Sorcs arenít a push over and free kill anymore. They finally have teeth after 3-4 years of being right at the bottom of the meta. But as history has shown, when ever Sorcs become viable, people scream for Nerfs instead of learning to adapt to the new meta.
Are they over tuned? I donít think the class abilities or utilities are. If anything the gearing is the issue and not the class. I donít even like the set bonuses because they make the class feel off. One makes the rotation super easy and the other makes it feel super clunky.

IMO, they should balance all classes without any set bonus gear and then consider how to add set bonuses. It would have to make balancing easier because if a set makes the class too strong or too weak, they can tweak it and not have to play around with any class abilities.
The whole method is completely backwards, but most of the things Bioware do is the opposite of logic.

AllisonLightning's Avatar


AllisonLightning
03.12.2020 , 03:48 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I disagree and you know Iím a keen pvp. Every class needs to be balanced for pve and pvp to full fill the ďroleĒ they are supposed to represent. ie all healing classes should be able to do the same HPS or they arenít viable in pve content and will be left out of raids if the other classes perform better.

The problem as I see it is Bioware donít have the correct methodology of balancing classes. Itís totally flawed for both pve and pvp because itís all done on training dummies and not actual combat that shows how good or bad the class is when good players use them. They also donít do the DPS/HPS balancing in conjunction with Survivability or special talents at the same time.

This is where the problems begin and are then Amplified when they try and balance across pve and pvp. Which can also be broken down into ranked pvp vs objective pvp vs story pve vs veteran pve vs master mode pve.
Different parts of the game require different tactics and some classes perform better or worse than others when those different play styles are used.
It comes down to EHPS and how well it can go where it needs to which is why raw HPS numbers are the wrong metric to go by or even a sustained damage enviroment. How well can this healer triage based on their skill set, how well can they keep a tank up and so on as a more specific example but what you said was very right and why balancing in this game has gone to hell.
http://www.swtor.com/r/xsvzTv

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theriomorphic's Avatar


theriomorphic
03.29.2020 , 02:08 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
For better or worse, balance in this game affects both pvp and pve. But ranked pvp is the only place it actually matters, because the different classes directly compete against each other. As long as every class can make the necessary dps/heal checks and clear all the content, the dps hierarchy for pve really doesn't matter except to people that only play "meta" classes all the time.



Except sorc is not nearly on the same level as deception sin and concealment op lol. This isn't up for debate, you're just posting nonsense.
Let's examine this claim for a second. Let's say a raid boss needs 100k dps applied to it to be defeated so you have dps #1 who is doing 95k dps, dps #2 is doing 4k, dps #3 (etc) is doing 1k so great, you've met the dps requirement and have defeated the boss. Since all that matters is that the dps check is met as per your statement, all is fine and dandy with this scenario; or is it? Only ranked pvp matters though, got it.

sahonen's Avatar


sahonen
03.29.2020 , 01:42 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by theriomorphic View Post
Let's examine this claim for a second. Let's say a raid boss needs 100k dps applied to it to be defeated so you have dps #1 who is doing 95k dps, dps #2 is doing 4k, dps #3 (etc) is doing 1k so great, you've met the dps requirement and have defeated the boss. Since all that matters is that the dps check is met as per your statement, all is fine and dandy with this scenario; or is it? Only ranked pvp matters though, got it.
If somebody would do 1k dps i would just turn 360 degree and walk away laughing.
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