I would have to think giving PVP folks a game they dont enjoy is where BW went wrong. Looking at PVP server levels, they just dont compare to the PVE ones.

 

IMO a company really needs to focus on who they want playing their game, and cater to that crowd. Too many times we see where someone will try to please everyone, and ends up pleasing no one. I view that as a very apt description of what is transpiring with this game.

 

Currently, as indicated prior, BW has a following of PVE gamers. So instead of focusing on this group, we have heard more time needs to be put into PVP. What am I missing here?

 

Folks like me are your money makers BW/EA. Since my initial purchase, I havent played much in the following months. What I have done though is keep my sub active, and not only that, but purchase Kingdoms of Amalur(49 of 50 original cheivs completed), and ME 3(all cheivs completed). That is besides buying n completing FF13-2, and part of The Witcher2. I am a very rabid gamer, but I have to bounce around to avoid burn out.

 

I took the smack in the face about the free game time, and told myself "self, these folks ran out of stuff to do at 50". Thus I inderstood why the decision was made.

 

However I dont understand why BW isnt cranking out stuff for the folks keeping them in the game(PVE both hardcore and casual), and instead chooses to focus on a crowd they already lost. They arent coming back in significant numbers, and if they would, I have a feeling it will be due to throwing the PVE folks out with the bathwater.

 

You guys wouldnt be this ignorant....I hope.

 

Before I went on disability, I was an Electronic Technician. Perhaps a business mind sees it different. That said, I see black and white when it comes to PVP and PVE. This isnt FPS territory, as the money is with PVE in MMORPGs, and IMO BW would do well to remember so. It was always their forte in gaming, and I have no clue why they felt they needed to go away from a direction they were strong in.

 

Ah well...my post, combined with a buck(adjusted for inflation), gets ya a cup of coffee.

 

 

The TL;DR version is BW needs to focus where their proverbial "bread is buttered", PVE, and quit chasing a crowd that brings less numbers than the ones they currently have. If they can fix it AFTER PVE is right, then have at it.

The TL;DR version is BW needs to focus where their proverbial "bread is buttered", PVE, and quit chasing a crowd that brings less numbers than the ones they currently have. If they can fix it AFTER PVE is right, then have at it.

 

This is a product. You'll want to attract all kinds of people to buy your product. Just because there is a majority that do one thing, doesn't mean they can't make a little more money by offering something for the other crowds.

This game isn't really casual friendly. Many casuals like character customization, non-combat activities, social games, and crafting. This game is short on all of that.

 

Even though I play a lot, I am still casual. I get sick of boring world quests, and there's nothing else to do.

 

It seems like they went out of their way to put in things to annoy me, and make me grind for cash.

 

This game was much more casual friendly in beta. At least, in the appearance department, and it was less grindy for money.

 

So, if casuals are leaving, there's a reason for it.

 

Heck, i kept 2 swg accounts going, and always had something to do that I enjoyed. This game offers nothing that doesn't involve fighting. We need more to do than gear/money grind.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Hambunctious

Simply put, leveling 1-50 is great. All the star wars content and class quests were enjoyable.

 

Post 50 content isn't worth $15 a month. Not in PvE, and definitely not in PvP.

PvP has 4 repetitive warzones and a gear grind. That isn't amazing content. That isn't content at all.

in our day adn age pve is a dying breed

in our day adn age pve is a dying breed

 

I wouldn't say that. It's the lack of variety that people won't put up with anymore.

Casuals always have and always will be treated like the scape goat for MMOs

They are always looked down upon by players, get blamed for every addition to the game others dont like, and seem to be all lumped together with different types of gamers who really cause the issues

This game isn't really casual friendly. Many casuals like character customization, non-combat activities, social games, and crafting. This game is short on all of that.

 

Even though I play a lot, I am still casual. I get sick of boring world quests, and there's nothing else to do.

 

It seems like they went out of their way to put in things to annoy me, and make me grind for cash.

 

This game was much more casual friendly in beta. At least, in the appearance department, and it was less grindy for money.

 

So, if casuals are leaving, there's a reason for it.

 

Heck, i kept 2 swg accounts going, and always had something to do that I enjoyed. This game offers nothing that doesn't involve fighting. We need more to do than gear/money grind.

 

^ This, I can't vouch for the SWG bit because I never played it but god I wish I had...

^ This, I can't vouch for the SWG bit because I never played it but god I wish I had...

 

Actualy you probably dont, it was horrible, i have no idea what these people were playing who have such fond memories of swg. by the time they got it half way playable the game was a ghost town then they changed the combat system and the fanboys even left .

Edited May 15, 2012 by Mallorik

This game isn't really casual friendly. Many casuals like character customization, non-combat activities, social games, and crafting. This game is short on all of that.

 

Even though I play a lot, I am still casual. I get sick of boring world quests, and there's nothing else to do.

 

It seems like they went out of their way to put in things to annoy me, and make me grind for cash.

 

This game was much more casual friendly in beta. At least, in the appearance department, and it was less grindy for money.

 

So, if casuals are leaving, there's a reason for it.

 

Heck, i kept 2 swg accounts going, and always had something to do that I enjoyed. This game offers nothing that doesn't involve fighting. We need more to do than gear/money grind.

 

It was more friendly in the Beta.More player choice.Two builds before the early access they started nerfing a lot of good things they had in the beta.It is too bad.

Bioware has no clue what a "casual" player is. This much should be obvious by now.

 

As it is MORE likely that "hardcore" players would leave the game first.

 

They've created the first and biggest polarized anti-social MMO known to man...

 

...and they'd rather blame the players, like usual, for the games decline.

 

And after coming from "stress test" of a certain game last night...

 

...well I can say this game better get into shape...

 

...real fast.

Bioware has no clue what a "casual" player is. This much should be obvious by now.

 

As it is MORE likely that "hardcore" players would leave the game first.

 

They've created the first and biggest polarized anti-social MMO known to man...

 

...and they'd rather blame the players, like usual, for the games decline.

 

And after coming from "stress test" of a certain game last night...

 

...well I can say this game better get into shape...

 

...real fast.

 

You forgot to mention that you casuals are the majority.

I would have to think giving PVP folks a game they dont enjoy is where BW went wrong. Looking at PVP server levels, they just dont compare to the PVE ones.

 

IMO a company really needs to focus on who they want playing their game, and cater to that crowd. Too many times we see where someone will try to please everyone, and ends up pleasing no one. I view that as a very apt description of what is transpiring with this game.

 

Currently, as indicated prior, BW has a following of PVE gamers. So instead of focusing on this group, we have heard more time needs to be put into PVP. What am I missing here?

 

Folks like me are your money makers BW/EA. Since my initial purchase, I havent played much in the following months. What I have done though is keep my sub active, and not only that, but purchase Kingdoms of Amalur(49 of 50 original cheivs completed), and ME 3(all cheivs completed). That is besides buying n completing FF13-2, and part of The Witcher2. I am a very rabid gamer, but I have to bounce around to avoid burn out.

 

I took the smack in the face about the free game time, and told myself "self, these folks ran out of stuff to do at 50". Thus I inderstood why the decision was made.

 

However I dont understand why BW isnt cranking out stuff for the folks keeping them in the game(PVE both hardcore and casual), and instead chooses to focus on a crowd they already lost. They arent coming back in significant numbers, and if they would, I have a feeling it will be due to throwing the PVE folks out with the bathwater.

 

You guys wouldnt be this ignorant....I hope.

 

Before I went on disability, I was an Electronic Technician. Perhaps a business mind sees it different. That said, I see black and white when it comes to PVP and PVE. This isnt FPS territory, as the money is with PVE in MMORPGs, and IMO BW would do well to remember so. It was always their forte in gaming, and I have no clue why they felt they needed to go away from a direction they were strong in.

 

Ah well...my post, combined with a buck(adjusted for inflation), gets ya a cup of coffee.

 

 

The TL;DR version is BW needs to focus where their proverbial "bread is buttered", PVE, and quit chasing a crowd that brings less numbers than the ones they currently have. If they can fix it AFTER PVE is right, then have at it.

 

What is the most populated server in game... Oh a PVP one. Why? Because the other pvp servers that look like their population is hurting, is because they got tired of waiting 15 minutes for a PVP Warzone Que to pop up, so they rolled on a server where it is damn near instant. You wonder why they want to add more focus to PVP? Because A LARGE amount of the playerbase is centered purely around it. PVE content is a given, a guarantee that more PVE based additions/updates will be seen than anything. It is a must in a MMO and will be here as well, when they say that they are going to focus on PVP, it is because they have recently stated that they WILL NOT focus on PVP and it is not their top priority, and saw a huge dip in the subs of avid PVPERS. To get them back, they fabricate a lie.

 

They are very Two-faced here... and you can just read the news page and dev updates to see that. A lot of what they have said, and then changed their minds, has dissapeared. The ORIGINAL post about the free 30 days, basically said anyone who wasn't subbed since day 1 was NOT A VALUED CUSTOMER. That went well in PR I am sure, and it was taken off the main page in less than 24 hours. The original dev blogs that had 3 primary developers of the game say They did not care what the fans though of the game, or what they wanted/requested, got ripped down in under a week. That was a big deal pre-launch that lost them a few subs I'm sure.

 

So before you get your panties in a wad, go back through the updates and show me where you see PVP being in the top 3 of priority lists. A new warzone... really? Its a small open ended map with 3 nodes that is the exact same concept as civil war only you require 2 of the 3 to do anything... wow, such innovation and focus went into that. So much that cross-server Que and Ranked PVP made it's way in... *rolls eyes*

I think there are some pretty big assumptions about what is and isn't casual to begin with, or where casual players interests might lie. I played PVE for 14 years in EQ1 and EQ2, was always what I'd consider a casual player, at least in not ever reaching end game raid content when it was remotely current, and ended up rolling on a PVP server in SWTOR because friends and family wanted it. And it's surprisingly entertaining....or was. Why is it not enjoyable now when it was previously? They took the enjoyment out of much of it for CASUAL pvp players. If you're not on, say, a very select PVP server, you WAIT for a warzone queue to pop.....not just a short wait, a very, very long wait in many cases. You'll be popped into a warzone where one side is down three people vs a full 8 person team. They made healing classes an actual liability to play in pvp with 1.2.....I could go on. It's actually not too much to expect that you'll be able to actually play PVP on a PVP server, and the recent focus on cross server queuing is belated recognition of the trials we're all having on low pop servers. That applies, actually, to PVE as well, and development of cross-server queuing for PVP could be easily expanded to include cross-server queuing for things like flashpoints for PVE later on. Though I'd rather see server merges /shrug. But there are plenty of "casual" PVP players.

 

There are things I'd love to see that I miss desperately that have been cited here as "casual" friendly. Player housing, appearance customization (I will never understand the choice to avoid appearance tabs, when it would solve so many of their issues in one fell swoop), minigames.....and YET.....give me a break. Other games did not have well-developed systems for these things even if they had them IN at launch when the games first came out. Player housing in EQ2, which became a spectacular niche I thoroughly enjoyed as a carpenter, with thousands of items and a system you could literally scale each house item up and down in size and rotate it completely in the x,y,z axis.....at launch, consisted of probably well less than 100 furniture items, many of which were so utterly ugly I wondered why ANYONE would want to make them, let alone use them in anything but an outhouse. Nothing matched and anything pretty required competition for rare harvestables with people making actual armor and weapons. Ugh. No appearance tab for....well, long enough that we joked for a very long time about being dressed in the dark by Bobo the Clown.

 

I guess at this point I'd love to see more people willing to give any MMO the time they gave its predecessors, which all launched with huge and glaring gaps between expectation and result, because six months is a terribly short time in the life of an online game. It took much longer to get a response from EQ devs on virtually any issue you could name. And lead time on game features......just wow. I'm willing to wait and see what we end up with. The grass is usually NOT demonstrably all that greener. Though it might be blue. Which is a different story altogether. And going by what I keep hearing regarding the oft mentioned D3 and G2.....I don't think the grass could get any....bluer. Really not surprised someone who likes either of those games a great deal would be unhappy with SWTOR. If this isn't a game that caters at the outset to casuals, I can't imagine what one would be like unless you're literally playing SIMS. Housing.....I do want housing.....ships, whatever. Other than that, well, six months is no time at all on which to judge a game, no matter the gigantic list of features we all think should be in at launch. If concerns aren't addressed going on 10-12 months, I'd be concerned.

You know the game is in trouble when you would just as soon as read the forums than play the damn game!

You know the game is in trouble when you would just as soon as read the forums than play the damn game!

 

well admittedly the forums are far more funny with peoples arm chair programming, economic speculation, hate filled posts about how horrible people at bioware are. the complete lack of understanding of running business masked by veiled insults and propoganda for other videogames

 

 

sometimes this forum is alot like the tv show spartacus, not really sure who to believe, or root for, but hell isnt it entertaining to watch people slit each others throat for the enjoyment of the crowd...

Actualy you probably dont, it was horrible, i have no idea what these people were playing who have such fond memories of swg. by the time they got it half way playable the game was a ghost town then they changed the combat system and the fanboys even left .

 

Did you even play it?

these battles were always fun, even when you were losing . no sound, but you can imagine...

Did you even play it?

these battles were always fun, even when you were losing . no sound, but you can imagine...

 

From watching that video I really don't see why people want the TOR planets to be like the SWG planets so they can explore further...give me a beautiful and fully rendered half-world over an entire blank space with a few rocks here and there.

It's not casuals. This is the most casual friendly MMO experience ever made, the sheer amount of convenience features is really amazing.

 

The problem with subs is boring and repetitive end game content, both PVP and PVE.

Simply put, leveling 1-50 is great. All the star wars content and class quests were enjoyable.

 

Post 50 content isn't worth $15 a month. Not in PvE, and definitely not in PvP.

PvP has 4 repetitive warzones and a gear grind. That isn't amazing content. That isn't content at all.

 

That's when you make another character...

 

Besides, even after hitting level 50 with my Inquisitor there was plenty for me to do. Earn more cash and build him up "combat-wise" some more. And yeah, that isn't the kind of content you may be looking for.... But that's what alts are for.

 

Some people get bored way too easily. I have four characters right now, all doing different things and it has been an incredible experience so far.

From watching that video I really don't see why people want the TOR planets to be like the SWG planets so they can explore further...give me a beautiful and fully rendered half-world over an entire blank space with a few rocks here and there.

 

2003 buddy, and they were more than rocks.... there were player housing, guild halls, and automated mining equipment that players made. I had fun.

1) I am so sick of PVP players thinking they are a majority force.....PVP players matter yes, there is a lot of them yes but they DEFINATELY arent anywheres near a majority

2)I am so sick of RAIDERS thinking they are a majority force.....Raiding matter yes, there is a lot of them yes but they DEFINATELY arent anywheres near a majority

3)Casuals ARE the majority in the MMO gaming world and quite honestly from a CASUAL point of view post 50 there is NOTHING to do in swtor except GRIND dailies for mods and stuff for your gear 1 mod every 2 days (Which im not willing to do btw) OR start a new alt

4)I have now started my 3rd and 4th toon towards the grind to lvl 50 they are both 30+ they will be lvl 50 by the end of the week I have only been playing about a month.....

 

There really isnt ANYTHING to do in this game besides either a) level a toon to 50 or b) do dailies for mods to improve your gear........I know this is a new game its only 6 months old BUT the problem is there is really NOTHING for the casual to do of ENTERTAINMENT value

Edited May 15, 2012 by Ivy_Blackrose

1-49 is for the most part decent but when you hit 50 its all down hill. Doing the same 4 warzones over and over is so dam boring, at least when ilum was around it broke up the monotony. The same goes for PvE, you can only do the raids, HM's and daily's so much before you get bored out of your mind. What Im getting at here is there isn't anything to do at 50 that isn't combat related. If they add some stuff like swoop racing where you can build your own bike take it racing or pazaak just as a fun time waster and credit maker that would help. Player house/Guild halls are another option and might help the planets come alive.

1)[snip]

There really isnt ANYTHING to do in this game besides either a) level a toon to 50 or b) do dailies for mods to improve your gear........I know this is a new game its only 6 months old BUT the problem is there is really NOTHING for the casual to do of ENTERTAINMENT value

 

Yes there is. Re-roll alts ad nauseam.

 

The "casual" journey ends at 50. It is really own time related how fast you get there, but you will, eventually.

 

So, you will morph into a "hardcore", "raider", "pvper", "elitist jerk", "insert derogatory term for anything you don`t like", or get bored of so many alts and quit.

 

Hardly a surprise in a game that has such a short trip to max level. The alternative is the much hated "asian grind fest", where you would grind one week for 10% (exagerration to prove a point). But then, people will start complaining about the others that got ahead anyway.

 

So, it is really a vicious circle... play by THEIR rules, or play by YOUR rules.. or quit, cos your fun is ruined.

The TL;DR version is BW needs to focus where their proverbial "bread is buttered", PVE, and quit chasing a crowd that brings less numbers than the ones they currently have. If they can fix it AFTER PVE is right, then have at it.

 

I understand your point of view, however PvP is an important staple in good MMO's now a days. People get tired of the PvE grind and player versus player gives people a chance to cut loose and do something different. While you may not enjoy it, the truth of the matter is Star Wars clearly attracts a LARGE PvP population as indicated by the cries for PvP fixes. To ignore that obvious income potential is not only unthinkable, but in a MMO of this games supposed caliber (i.e, the 'WoW' killer) it is a horrible business decision as evidenced by the slump in subscriptions.

 

Additionally I would add, your attitude about 'screw the PvP community' we dont need them anyways let them go is a horrible idea for one more major reason that DOES effect your PvE.... Losses in subscription numbers = Less Money For Fixes and Expansions. I would reconsider your position sir.