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Warzone Tutorial Quest


djvapid's Avatar


djvapid
10.31.2020 , 10:24 AM | #1
Why does the Introduction to Warzones quest require a win and not just a completion? Since there doesn't appear to be any sort of segregation between low level/new players and end game, it seems frustratingly counter-intuitive to require an actual win to complete the initial tutorial quest. As a completionist, having no interest in playing warzone-after-warzone because I'm inexperienced and can't seem to drum up a win to complete this abhorrent quest, just to get rid of the quest marker on my map, am I essentially crap out of luck? At least the Starfighter quest only requires a completion, not a victory...

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
10.31.2020 , 10:45 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by djvapid View Post
Why does the Introduction to Warzones quest require a win and not just a completion? Since there doesn't appear to be any sort of segregation between low level/new players and end game, it seems frustratingly counter-intuitive to require an actual win to complete the initial tutorial quest. As a completionist, having no interest in playing warzone-after-warzone because I'm inexperienced and can't seem to drum up a win to complete this abhorrent quest, just to get rid of the quest marker on my map, am I essentially crap out of luck? At least the Starfighter quest only requires a completion, not a victory...
They changed it when they changed the other ones, which is really stupid as it's supposed to be an introduction mission
{stupid is a hard barrier}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlVrbO_mAU&t=19s My Coruscant stronghold
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.31.2020 , 05:11 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by djvapid View Post
Why does the Introduction to Warzones quest require a win and not just a completion? Since there doesn't appear to be any sort of segregation between low level/new players and end game, it seems frustratingly counter-intuitive to require an actual win to complete the initial tutorial quest. As a completionist, having no interest in playing warzone-after-warzone because I'm inexperienced and can't seem to drum up a win to complete this abhorrent quest, just to get rid of the quest marker on my map, am I essentially crap out of luck? At least the Starfighter quest only requires a completion, not a victory...
Agree. It should not require a win considering it’s the first mission and the rewards are ear, implants and relics. All of which a new pvper at lvl 10 might not have yet. So they are already behind in stats (bolster doesn’t cover empty slots) and they are now expected to “win” to complete the introduction mission? This really is the most nonsensical decision by Bioware’s latest pvp changes.

Honestly, lowbies and Mids is dying again due to some of the pvp changes. Even lvl 75 participation is declining during the times I play. I obviously don’t have the numbers that Bioware do. I really hope they are tracking those numbers and will consider some changes before too much damage is done.

The changes I would suggest are :

Lowbies bracket

1. Remove the win requirement for the warzone introductory mission
2. Change the win requirement for dailies and weeklies back to a points system. It used to be 1 point for a loss and 2 points for a win. Then increase the number of points needed to complete the daily / weekly.
(This allows people to advance their missions when losing isn’t their fault, because the queue match making system isn’t working or is making 3v4 matches constantly or putting sub lvl 20s vs lvl 40s.
3. Apply the same sort of system to the pvp conquest achievements too.
4. Lowbies is capped at lvl 42. To make it more fair and balanced, they could open up all abilities and utilities up to lvl 42 when you enter pvp. This would allow Lower lvls a better experience against players of higher lvl, like Lvl 42 vs lvl 10s
5. Reduce the deserter lock out timer to 8 mins for lowbies
6. Add small quantity of tech frags as rewards for wins

Mid bracket

1. Change the win requirement for dailies and weeklies back to a points system. Make Mids require 1 points for a loss and 3 points for a win. Obviously increase / scale up the number of points needed to complete the daily / weekly.
(This gives an incentive to win instead of AFKing and it still takes into account the matchmaking system isn’t perfect and losing isn’t always the individual players fault, ie when it puts all lvl 70+ vs all lvl 43+ on opposing teams).
2. Apply the same sort of system to the pvp conquest achievements too.
3. Mids is capped at lvl 74. This means you have lvl 43 vs lvl 74s (who can also have set bonus gear too).
3a. Adding set bonus pvp gear for Mids (on wearable in pvp).
3b. And allow all Lvls to have lvl 74 abilities and utilities available while in pvp. This would help balance the matches.
4. Reduce the deserter lockout timer to 8 mins for Mids
5. Add small quantity of tech frags as rewards for wins

Max lvl bracket

1. Change the win requirement back to a points system. But make it 1 point for a loss and 4 for a win. Then up scale the daily / weekly points requirement to balance the wins to the same as required now to achieve the missions.
2. Reduce the deserter lockout timer to 8 mins. But for each subsequent time you leave, It adds an extra minute to it till it’s capped at 20 mins.

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
11.08.2020 , 05:25 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Agree. It should not require a win considering it’s the first mission and the rewards are ear, implants and relics. All of which a new pvper at lvl 10 might not have yet. So they are already behind in stats (bolster doesn’t cover empty slots) and they are now expected to “win” to complete the introduction mission? This really is the most nonsensical decision by Bioware’s latest pvp changes.

Honestly, lowbies and Mids is dying again due to some of the pvp changes. Even lvl 75 participation is declining during the times I play. I obviously don’t have the numbers that Bioware do. I really hope they are tracking those numbers and will consider some changes before too much damage is done.

The changes I would suggest are :

Lowbies bracket

1. Remove the win requirement for the warzone introductory mission
2. Change the win requirement for dailies and weeklies back to a points system. It used to be 1 point for a loss and 2 points for a win. Then increase the number of points needed to complete the daily / weekly.
(This allows people to advance their missions when losing isn’t their fault, because the queue match making system isn’t working or is making 3v4 matches constantly or putting sub lvl 20s vs lvl 40s.
3. Apply the same sort of system to the pvp conquest achievements too.
4. Lowbies is capped at lvl 42. To make it more fair and balanced, they could open up all abilities and utilities up to lvl 42 when you enter pvp. This would allow Lower lvls a better experience against players of higher lvl, like Lvl 42 vs lvl 10s
5. Reduce the deserter lock out timer to 8 mins for lowbies
6. Add small quantity of tech frags as rewards for wins

Mid bracket

1. Change the win requirement for dailies and weeklies back to a points system. Make Mids require 1 points for a loss and 3 points for a win. Obviously increase / scale up the number of points needed to complete the daily / weekly.
(This gives an incentive to win instead of AFKing and it still takes into account the matchmaking system isn’t perfect and losing isn’t always the individual players fault, ie when it puts all lvl 70+ vs all lvl 43+ on opposing teams).
2. Apply the same sort of system to the pvp conquest achievements too.
3. Mids is capped at lvl 74. This means you have lvl 43 vs lvl 74s (who can also have set bonus gear too).
3a. Adding set bonus pvp gear for Mids (on wearable in pvp).
3b. And allow all Lvls to have lvl 74 abilities and utilities available while in pvp. This would help balance the matches.
4. Reduce the deserter lockout timer to 8 mins for Mids
5. Add small quantity of tech frags as rewards for wins

Max lvl bracket

1. Change the win requirement back to a points system. But make it 1 point for a loss and 4 for a win. Then up scale the daily / weekly points requirement to balance the wins to the same as required now to achieve the missions.
2. Reduce the deserter lockout timer to 8 mins. But for each subsequent time you leave, It adds an extra minute to it till it’s capped at 20 mins.
I loathe the deserter debuff more than the win requisite for daily/weekly progress, but you offer good compromises. However, I must state again that I would far prefer to KEEP the win/loss thing and do away with the deserter debuff. The deserter debuff affects players who have not intentionally abandoned a warzone and I find that despicable.

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
11.08.2020 , 06:45 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Sappharan View Post
I loathe the deserter debuff more than the win requisite for daily/weekly progress, but you offer good compromises. However, I must state again that I would far prefer to KEEP the win/loss thing and do away with the deserter debuff. The deserter debuff affects players who have not intentionally abandoned a warzone and I find that despicable.
But the amount of people who that effects is small, compared to the amount of people who leave on purpose. It's designed to stop people leaving games and requing till they get what they want, or from abusing the que system, etc. It's not perfect. but it's better than nothing. As for having to win to get a tutorial quest, it's a joke.
{stupid is a hard barrier}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlVrbO_mAU&t=19s My Coruscant stronghold
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
11.08.2020 , 07:51 AM | #6
I would like to see the deserter debuff removed from lowbies and Mids. If there has to be one, then keep it for lvl 75 and ranked.

On top of that, I would like to see the “win only” requirement removed from completing dailies and weeklies in lowbies and Mids. I think the best method is one similar to the old one that used a points system (This could be adjusted so it’s a 3:1 ratio to complete). Then they could add some extra requirements like more matches for the weekly and daily.

As a long time PVPer, I have days where matches and match making goes smoothly and I can churn out my daily and weeklies on multiple Alts with no problems.
Then there are other days and weeks where the match making system decides I have to carry a whole team of brand new, undergeared (not all slots full) and under skilled players against the queues best players in every match.
Which is obviously extremely frustrating because I cannot leave and requeue and I can’t get my missions done. The whole thing becomes totally unenjoyable and a waste of time. So I end up playing some other content or a totally other game.

Now I’m a veteran (long time pvper in swtor) and not a new player who is trying to learn or get into pvp. So if I’m frustrated and not having fun, I can only imagine how it must feel for new people or those trying to learn.
Lowbies and Mids has always been a learning bracket. But somewhere along the way, Bioware forgot that and started to force/encourage people to learn to play in end lvl pvp and not in lowbies and Mids. This caused a bid degradation of skill and quality in end game pvp (both regs and ranked). This made good players leave and new players didn’t learn enough to refill the ranked population. Bioware have realised this and that’s why they added the “win only“ requirement and the deserter lockout. But they’ve forgotten that people still need an enjoyable place to “learn” how to pvp to start with.

I support Biowares initiatives to try and improve the quality of pvp. Except I feel they are going from one extreme to another.
By all means, keep some form of deserter timer in end game pvp. Even have it so you must win in ranked to progress the missions and rewards. But change the win only requirement back to a points system and increase the ratio required in end lvl reg pvp to progress the missions. Ie, maybe 4:1 ratio.

Promote lowbie and mid pvp as the learning area. Let the missions be a point system that is a 3:1 ratio of wins/losses to complete the missions. And either remove the deserter timer or reduce it to half of what it is for end game pvp. Either that or improve the match making 1000% so that it works and is fair. Which I can’t see happening because that would also require removing premades from lowbies and Mids.

Anyway, as I said in a previous post. It’s ludicrous that the starter mission has a requirement to win. It’s where most people get their left side ear, implants and relics to pvp with. So without them, you are behind the 8 ball so to speak and will have an even harder time winning that first match to get those rewards to make it easier. (Can anyone say chicken and egg?).

While Biowares latest changes to pvp have the right intentions, the delivery is missing the mark and actually driving people from the format. Yes, pvp skills do seem to be getting better in end game, but there are a lot less people in lowbies and Mids. What happens when people leave and there aren’t people having fun learning to pvp to replace them?

Ner_idia's Avatar


Ner_idia
11.08.2020 , 10:52 AM | #7
So, they made a change which runs counter to the way things that make sense to the players?

In other news: water...wet.

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
11.08.2020 , 11:46 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Ner_idia View Post

In other news: water...wet.

Nooooooo!!!!! Don't start that up again, we'll have a revolution
{stupid is a hard barrier}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlVrbO_mAU&t=19s My Coruscant stronghold
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖

elimatorxv's Avatar


elimatorxv
11.08.2020 , 11:51 AM | #9
wait dont tell me,

the sky is blue?
http://www.swtor.com/r/5SJ2Hw my referal link you can click it if you want for some goodies and 7 days subscription but only if willing

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
11.08.2020 , 11:54 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by elimatorxv View Post
wait dont tell me,

the sky is blue?
*looks out the window*...Not here, it's black
{stupid is a hard barrier}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlVrbO_mAU&t=19s My Coruscant stronghold
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖