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Change back the changes!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Change back the changes!

kristinlouise's Avatar


kristinlouise
09.12.2020 , 10:07 PM | #1
Herro~
So I donít know how other people are feeling about the recent changes to pvp questing (now you need to win a match to advance dailies and weeklies) but I really donít like them. From the perspective of someone who doesnít always queue with a coordinated premade group, these changes mean I am almost guaranteed to get my butt handed to me by one. Requiring wins for quest credit means people are more likely to queue in teams if they can, to increase chances of winning. This means anyone who plays by themselves is so much more likely to repeatedly lose. This is already scaring away friends and familiar faces of mine who typically queue solo because they just donít want to lose every single time for no credit. Itís also going to discourage new people from trying it or sticking with it because there is no incentive. I donít understand what the logic was behind this change but itís forcing unranked zones closer to grouped matches because there just isnít any way to win anymore without a team. PVP is one area where participation trophies are actually necessary for the community to be as welcoming as possible for new people and soloíers. I know it means dragging useless people through every once and awhile but thatís not as bad as not being able to do it all.
Iíd love to hear other peopleísí thoughts! Thanks 🙃

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.13.2020 , 01:26 AM | #2
No, the requirement to win is fine.

AntarNyaus's Avatar


AntarNyaus
09.13.2020 , 04:49 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by kristinlouise View Post
Herro~
So I donít know how other people are feeling about the recent changes to pvp questing... but I really donít like them. ...anyone who plays by themselves is so much more likely to repeatedly lose. [Solo/casual/rookie players] donít want to lose every single time for no credit. Itís also going to discourage new people from trying it or sticking with it because there is no incentive. I donít understand what the logic was behind this change but itís forcing unranked zones closer to grouped matches because there just isnít any way to win anymore without a team.
Pretty much all the changes to PVP are horrible. With the Steam launch, it should be a great time for new players. Instead the devs change the daily/weekly missions to recognize only wins while also implementing a 15-minute deserter penalty.

So if you're a regular PvPer in a guild and can group up, this is great. But if you're a rookie, a solo player, or both, this change is really frustrating.

Since Huttballs was introduced in Beta, I have voluntarily played two games. One the first time I tried it. It sounded stupid and like an esport the engine wasn't designed to handle. A ball-game in an MMO with no clipping? I was right. It sucked. That was the last time I played it and went back to focusing on other aspects of the beta. After the game released, I thought I'd give it a try. Huttballs still sucked. Here we are nine years later, Huttballs still sucks.

Ever since, if I queued for PvP and loaded into Huttballs, I would usually just leave immediately. If there were only a few minutes left, I would often stay and do my best to help my team win, even though I still despised Huttballs. And sometimes we would win, since I wasn't always backfilling for some primadonna who flounced rather than tarnish their "perfect" record.

But now, if I backfill into a losing Huttballs match, I get nothing for staying, regardless of what I do or how I play, and I get a deserter penalty for leaving. It's a lose-lose situation.

So I think from now on, loading in to a Huttballs match will just mean it's time for a mid-field dance off.
Antar "Tonar" Nyaus, The Ebon Hawk Nyaus Legacy (Now on Darth Malgus EU)
Republic: Antaaro, Guard; Antaakhur, Sage; Antaade, Troop; Antaaraj, Scoundrel
Empire: Antaanih, Sorc; Antaarek, Jugg; Antaail, Snipe; Antaahin, Merc

Nemmar's Avatar


Nemmar
09.13.2020 , 06:45 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by AntarNyaus View Post
Pretty much all the changes to PVP are horrible. With the Steam launch, it should be a great time for new players. Instead the devs change the daily/weekly missions to recognize only wins while also implementing a 15-minute deserter penalty.

So if you're a regular PvPer in a guild and can group up, this is great. But if you're a rookie, a solo player, or both, this change is really frustrating.

Since Huttballs was introduced in Beta, I have voluntarily played two games. One the first time I tried it. It sounded stupid and like an esport the engine wasn't designed to handle. A ball-game in an MMO with no clipping? I was right. It sucked. That was the last time I played it and went back to focusing on other aspects of the beta. After the game released, I thought I'd give it a try. Huttballs still sucked. Here we are nine years later, Huttballs still sucks.

Ever since, if I queued for PvP and loaded into Huttballs, I would usually just leave immediately. If there were only a few minutes left, I would often stay and do my best to help my team win, even though I still despised Huttballs. And sometimes we would win, since I wasn't always backfilling for some primadonna who flounced rather than tarnish their "perfect" record.

But now, if I backfill into a losing Huttballs match, I get nothing for staying, regardless of what I do or how I play, and I get a deserter penalty for leaving. It's a lose-lose situation.

So I think from now on, loading in to a Huttballs match will just mean it's time for a mid-field dance off.
Oh yes, terrible devs for making what every other mmo makes. The penalties are there for a reason. The penalty is not the problem. Pre-mades are. They need to make regs a solo or no more than 2 man queue.

Also no, Huttball is awesome and your post proves why the penalty is necessary cause in a tirade of self interest you ruin the game for some and the queue for others. So, yes, you do deserve a penalty if you do that.

-Bob-'s Avatar


-Bob-
09.13.2020 , 07:01 AM | #5
The changes to PVP are the best thing thats happened to PVP in a long time!
Matches are much more competitive now.
I thank the Devs for implementing them!
There are no Victims, Only volunteers!
Der Untermensch
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DragonLadyK's Avatar


DragonLadyK
09.13.2020 , 08:59 AM | #6
I'm going to use dog training as an illustration. Let's say you let your dog out before work each day. Just before you are ready to leave, you call the dog to come. When he gets to you, Monday thru Friday, you praise+pet and then put him in his crate and go to work. On Saturday, you skip the praise+pet but you put him in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's recall command is going to be rock solid because you have consistently reinforced the idea that every time he comes SOMETHING good is going to happen.

Now let's say you get sloppy and Monday thru Friday you skip the praise+pet and just put him in his crate and go to work, but on Saturdays we get in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's come command is going to fall apart into "I come when I feel like it" because most of the time he's not getting anything out of it.

Players are the same, and so are employees. If they're not getting any reward for what they are doing (even if it's just praise or the feeling of satisfaction of a job well done) they aren't going to be doing it for very much longer.

PVP before the changes was primarily three groups of people: 1) people who farm dps numbers in mid (I have never been really clear on what they get out of pvp, arena practice maybe?); 2) people who don't have enough pvp associates for a premade but do understand to focus on objectives; and 3) premades. The skill level of all three groups was varied. You'd have the newbies importing their other mmo habits up to the people where you see their name on your team and know it's gonna be a good match.

What I'm seeing with the new changes is that group #2 is dwindling. The people I used to see regularly aren't queing anymore and participation is narrowing down to groups 1 and 3, or more to the point, the premades farming the number farmers for wins. Trying to get the cats herded to focusing on the objectives is a lot more difficult than it used to be.

Before, even if you lost you still made progress on your weekly. It wasn't great, but you at least got something for your trouble. It made the match not feel like a waste of time if you got put in with a bunch of number farmers or new people. It kept the new people hooked enough to get better. Now, with that removed, the competitive loners aren't bothering and the newbies are largely falling into the number farmers' bad habits.

If the purpose of this change was to make premades mandatory for pvp and/or to narrow participation to premades, well, congratulations, mission accomplished. I don't think SWTOR has a big enough player base to support this change, particularly with how many games both cast a wide net for pvp participation and reinforce both active participation and winning.

If, however, the goal was to make the weekly harder so people would pvp more or make people try harder in matches, this was the opposite tactic to take. Upping the value for a win without removing the incentive to participate would have been a better choice -- kept the competitive loners in the q.

AocaVII's Avatar


AocaVII
09.13.2020 , 09:16 AM | #7
Ya rn the player base is so bad in pvp; to have 3-4 man premades in the same q as pugs is truly unbalanced. At one time, it was fine. I don't get the thrill of killing bad players with 3-4 people in a "good" premade. I think anyone semi-competent could probably do that with your eyes closed or one handed lol

TBH If I pug, I'm just going to dodge your premade so pffftttttttttt LOL

Really, I could do the same BUT I'm not organizing a guild and/or 3-4 people to kill people who are horrible players and offer no legitimate competition LMAO It's more of a thrill for me to kill people who are hard to kill.

I've built several guilds with other very wonderful helpful people but atm the time and effort just to kill bad players/pugs for me is no where worth the effort LOL

I recommend q dodging guilds and premades if you are pugging (put them all on your friends list) because they probably will never fix that element and tbh if they did, there wouldn't be enough players.

What happens is they start to play other premades and their pride is so great in their guild or group that they start losing they take it out on each other, and it's causes DRAMA. Been there done that LOL

It should have been like 4 years ago pugs q and premades q. Tbh I was in the 4 man premades back then but the player base got so bad, I didn't really see the point of stacking a group.

I don't see the glory in of wiping bad pugs where you have a huge advantage.

The 3-4 man premade of "good" players vs pugs is outdated for the current state of pvp. At this point, it's Neanderthal.
Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons

AocaVII's Avatar


AocaVII
09.13.2020 , 09:26 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by DragonLadyK View Post
I'm going to use dog training as an illustration. Let's say you let your dog out before work each day. Just before you are ready to leave, you call the dog to come. When he gets to you, Monday thru Friday, you praise+pet and then put him in his crate and go to work. On Saturday, you skip the praise+pet but you put him in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's recall command is going to be rock solid because you have consistently reinforced the idea that every time he comes SOMETHING good is going to happen.

Now let's say you get sloppy and Monday thru Friday you skip the praise+pet and just put him in his crate and go to work, but on Saturdays we get in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's come command is going to fall apart into "I come when I feel like it" because most of the time he's not getting anything out of it.

Players are the same, and so are employees. If they're not getting any reward for what they are doing (even if it's just praise or the feeling of satisfaction of a job well done) they aren't going to be doing it for very much longer.

PVP before the changes was primarily three groups of people: 1) people who farm dps numbers in mid (I have never been really clear on what they get out of pvp, arena practice maybe?); 2) people who don't have enough pvp associates for a premade but do understand to focus on objectives; and 3) premades. The skill level of all three groups was varied. You'd have the newbies importing their other mmo habits up to the people where you see their name on your team and know it's gonna be a good match.

What I'm seeing with the new changes is that group #2 is dwindling. The people I used to see regularly aren't queing anymore and participation is narrowing down to groups 1 and 3, or more to the point, the premades farming the number farmers for wins. Trying to get the cats herded to focusing on the objectives is a lot more difficult than it used to be.

Before, even if you lost you still made progress on your weekly. It wasn't great, but you at least got something for your trouble. It made the match not feel like a waste of time if you got put in with a bunch of number farmers or new people. It kept the new people hooked enough to get better. Now, with that removed, the competitive loners aren't bothering and the newbies are largely falling into the number farmers' bad habits.

If the purpose of this change was to make premades mandatory for pvp and/or to narrow participation to premades, well, congratulations, mission accomplished. I don't think SWTOR has a big enough player base to support this change, particularly with how many games both cast a wide net for pvp participation and reinforce both active participation and winning.

If, however, the goal was to make the weekly harder so people would pvp more or make people try harder in matches, this was the opposite tactic to take. Upping the value for a win without removing the incentive to participate would have been a better choice -- kept the competitive loners in the q.
Most of the premades that are OP don't care if they win. They just show off DPS numbers, like it's hard thing to get top/high dps. What I don't get is what are you showing off killing pugs and awful players. What is that even ? LMAO

May as well go parse on a target dummy. LOOOOOOOOOOL
Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons

asdfjklp's Avatar


asdfjklp
09.13.2020 , 11:11 AM | #9
Even though this thread is related to PvP, I believe that this should have been posted in the Suggestion Box located within General Discussion.

RedDeadFord's Avatar


RedDeadFord
09.13.2020 , 02:11 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
No, the requirement to win is fine.
I like to play multiple toons. It sucks completing one daily in 15 min for one character and farming the next daily for 6 friggin' hours because his gear is 270. It's stupid and only serves to waste my time and let my membership lapse. The changes only serve to alienate casual players. Why? Ranked is already there for the hardcore pvpers. Why make things worse for the casual player?