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If lightning sorcs are supposed to be really strong, why are they garbage?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
If lightning sorcs are supposed to be really strong, why are they garbage?

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
08.06.2017 , 11:05 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Koppster View Post
Mara/Sent have more tools to stay in your face and stop you hard casting than you have to keep them out of it. Saying it's a, "l2play" issue is disingenuous, considering the devs have seen fit to weight those fights so they're lopsided.

In the context of your example, sorcs are garbage, because only bad maras lose to a sorc.

Even if we were to take the stance that the current meta is that sages/sorc are back of the line artillery, it's a common fact that they are the 1st to be targetted in any wz, because they're practically free kills and even considering the uncommon incidents were a wz full of enemy players are somehow stupid enough to leave one standing there turreting, the damage is still crap compared to other ranged classes.
With the ammount of escape and self-heal to a sorc's diposition, they are far from a free kill. It is true that keeping your dps up under pressure is a challenge, but a good sorc is very hard to focus down and kill.
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Hoppinswtor's Avatar


Hoppinswtor
08.07.2017 , 06:57 PM | #12
Lightning sorcs are excellent in pve (and regs). They still possess underrated utility and slightly underrated dps potential, even without that dumb chain lightning bug. Too many people play the spec in a straightforward nature and are missing the point.

They are on the weaker side of the dueling spectrum (assuming equal skill) but they can hold their own. They will lose attrition battles against ops/mercs, though, and will need LOS objects against snipers. Fury and rage are tough specs to counter because of their burst and control. Deception vs. lightning makes for extremely exciting and competitive duels. They should win attrition battles against PTs as long as you circumvent 3 of the PT's cooldowns appropriately (aoe taunt, kolto, explosive fuel). They are fantastic against sin tanks.

They're just not that viable in ranked, sadly. Overall, they're harder to master than the other ranged classes currently due to their high-ish APM and the active nature of their defenses (rather than the passive nature of merc and sniper defensives). The margin for error is slim, and it's very easy to make a mistake during a polarity window and find yourself spamming lightning bolts too quickly.
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verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
08.08.2017 , 03:56 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoppinswtor View Post
Lightning sorcs are excellent in pve (and regs). They still possess underrated utility and slightly underrated dps potential, even without that dumb chain lightning bug. Too many people play the spec in a straightforward nature and are missing the point.

They are on the weaker side of the dueling spectrum (assuming equal skill) but they can hold their own. They will lose attrition battles against ops/mercs, though, and will need LOS objects against snipers. Fury and rage are tough specs to counter because of their burst and control. Deception vs. lightning makes for extremely exciting and competitive duels. They should win attrition battles against PTs as long as you circumvent 3 of the PT's cooldowns appropriately (aoe taunt, kolto, explosive fuel). They are fantastic against sin tanks.

They're just not that viable in ranked, sadly. Overall, they're harder to master than the other ranged classes currently due to their high-ish APM and the active nature of their defenses (rather than the passive nature of merc and sniper defensives). The margin for error is slim, and it's very easy to make a mistake during a polarity window and find yourself spamming lightning bolts too quickly.
This is a very accurate post.

To be honest, I see a lot of people running very bad utility build that doesnt help. The "spikey" lightning barrier effect first in line of a very obvious wasted point.

How to be globalled and cry sorc don't work

And I see a few of those often.

Now How to suddenly be a lot harder to kill on your sorc

UP and Cloud mind are what makes the difference between dying to a focus, or buying you the critical seconds to escape it.

This is also what gives you the possibility to keep dpsing while under it.

Sorc's burst is there but not as easy to push than say MM.


Where I kinda disagree with you is your analysis of duel vs other class.


Deception : a deception played right will manage your resolve bar to cut your kiting with well timed low slash. Its therefore going to be very hard to keep your distance, and they simply will outburst you, while they take less damage by their very nature. You'll be able to cheat that twice with phase walk and Force Barrier, but ultimately the sin should win.

Operative : both spec are your worst nightmare. There is nothing you do 1vs1 they do not do better.

PT: You shouldnt lose to one, unless you get massively surprised, with no cooldowns nor medpacs, no phasewalk placed, and the PT is very good with all of it CDs. Simply, they have very high burst, a decent ability to stay on target and 2 hard stun, but their lack of survivability makes them the poorest duelist in game. Manage your own cds well, and your escapes to avoid the stunlocks they'll attempt to protect their best moves. For the rest kite them like hell.

Against merc...well tbh it varies on the situation. You can at the very last stall a merc as you have higher mobility and slightly better self-healing, cooldowns excluded. Fighting a merc is managing their cds, and avoiding to heal them up when they use Responsive Safeguards and energy shield.

Sniper, LoS like hell, manage their cooldown, and try to outlast them. Your biggest challenge will be keeping the dps and not running out of force with self-heals (ex dark heal spams).

Jugs and marauders are potentially easy to deal with, if you know their anti-kiting well. Fury Marauders are extremely good at staying on target and preventing escapes tough, as well as have good cooldowns and cc immunity. Tbh they should win against you.

Carnage marauder however assuming you keep kiting should have trouble getting their burst on you, and good knowledge of how to nulify their ferocity window makes them impressive on paper, but potentially ineffective against a player that knows how to counter them.
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InnerRampage's Avatar


InnerRampage
08.25.2017 , 06:35 AM | #14
Let's not kid ourselves here, Sorcs need a buff on all aspects, if you all want to defend the class so much you should be with my and say "Yeah, this class is pretty weak atm, it could use a good buff."

Exocor's Avatar


Exocor
08.25.2017 , 06:43 AM | #15
Lightning sorcs are ranged burst DPS. Marksman and Arsenal are pretty more garbage, then LS, so stop complaining please. Sorcs are right there, where they are comparing with other classes.
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ufarax's Avatar


ufarax
08.29.2017 , 08:49 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by InnerRampage View Post
I am a relatively newer player to the game, and I stared a sorcerer class, and lightning seemed cool, and I thought it would be good. I am now level 70 and it is honestly garbage, why do they do this? Why don't they put in the lightning class description "WARNING: This class is complete garbage and you will not be able to do any relative DPS during high level ops/FPS/Anything! So pick this class if you really want to waste your time!" It seems like false advertising to me.

I am assuming you are young, maybe too young to understand what I will say next. I will give you two quotes, from the same song, The Gambler by Kenny Rogers. First quote "If you're gonna play the game boy, You gotta learn to play it right", know your rotation, and practice said rotation. Second "Cause every hand's a winner And every hand's a loser". It's not the class, it's the player. Every class is OP, and every class garbage.

UnzeroAJ's Avatar


UnzeroAJ
08.31.2017 , 08:41 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by InnerRampage View Post
I am a relatively newer player to the game, and I stared a sorcerer class, and lightning seemed cool, and I thought it would be good. I am now level 70 and it is honestly garbage, why do they do this? Why don't they put in the lightning class description "WARNING: This class is complete garbage and you will not be able to do any relative DPS during high level ops/FPS/Anything! So pick this class if you really want to waste your time!" It seems like false advertising to me.
Quote: Originally Posted by InnerRampage View Post
Let's not kid ourselves here, Sorcs need a buff on all aspects, if you all want to defend the class so much you should be with my and say "Yeah, this class is pretty weak atm, it could use a good buff."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ok, first off, hahahahaha.

Now, here is the thing. You really.....really.....really need to be less vague with what you are saying, and actually give some definitive reason for why you think they need a buff. What this looks like, even to my untrained eye, is that you are having a "learn to play" issue, where you have simply not figured out one of the key aspects of the game. I don't know if you are in 230's, or if you use augments, or stims.. but let me tell you something. In PvE content they are in a good place right now. Not exactly the best...but viable. When I play my DPS Sage I do more damage per ability then I do on my Sentinel, but my Sentinel does many more attacks per minute. And Telekinetics/Lightning only got more powerful as more targets come into range. My heals Sage is almost unkillable, and not only does he almost always have the highest heals in every warzone, but is almost impossible to kill due to the insane amount of mobility I have. I have not once ever found any issue clearing any content on any of the specs for Sage/Sorceror. Could you at least be specific about what it is that you are having trouble with?

TL;DR >>> Learn to play, bruh.

UnzeroAJ's Avatar


UnzeroAJ
08.31.2017 , 12:12 PM | #18
Seriously, I don't mean to be an idiot. I just don't think any class is overly squishy after you learn to kite and you learn to use your whole toolkit. I've met a lot of great Sorcerors and they can be very good, anything can.

kamikosong's Avatar


kamikosong
09.02.2017 , 08:38 AM | #19
It's taken me awhile to be more effective on mine. They are not as bad as people think, but they do require more effort to be effective than some other classes. Move often and early has become my mantra. If you are reacting to threat, you are doing it wrong.
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verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
09.05.2017 , 10:25 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by InnerRampage View Post
Let's not kid ourselves here, Sorcs need a buff on all aspects, if you all want to defend the class so much you should be with my and say "Yeah, this class is pretty weak atm, it could use a good buff."
The difference is, we don't "defend" or try to "sink" a class. I don't at any rate, and a lot of the people who answered you in this thread don't either. Many are experienced players, who've been around for a while, knew a few metas, knew each spec time in the sun, figuratively speaking (or their FoTM shining moment before batnerf hammer happened, often wielded by hulk on steroids).

What we defend, is a balance between classes, so that they are all enjoyable. Not the domination of one, or a FoTM of our favorites.

Its very hard to take you seriously if you only show ignorance of various strenght the class has, or purposely ignore mentionning them in the hope of making your claim looks better. Anyone with a shred of knowledge about the game spot those people very fast, who downplay their classes strong points and make every small weakness looks like it causes you to single handily drop dead vs a kor'slug on korriban looking at you wrong.

And no matter the flipping comment about dev's decision, or some of their concept, they know the game, they coded it, and Keith has been known as a very active player in the dev team even before he took the lead this year. This mean, that like me, hoppin and others who posted in this thread, he is pretty good at spotting horsecrap points, and should among the horse crap there be a diamond hidden (an actually good idea) well its going to stay unoticed in the pile.
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