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Is there a point to this class anymore?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Is there a point to this class anymore?

Koppster's Avatar

08.06.2017 , 03:29 PM | #1
From a PvP standpoint at least, it's all glass and no cannon.

The damage is sub-par compared to other classes, the mitigation is lacking and there's next to no ways to keep players out of your face that they don't have 27 counters for.

I'm confused as to what is even the point? Apart from roleplay elements, "I R TEH JEDEYE!!1111", there's nothing to be achieved playing/rolling a sage/sorc as a ranged dps that can't be done 10x better by a commando/merc, or sniper/slinger.

Help me out here.

Kuvox's Avatar

08.06.2017 , 07:58 PM | #2
I can't hide, kite or escape on my Merc or Sniper like I can on my Sorc. We have the best mobility in the game; Phasewalk (which seems so underutilized by Sorcs in WZs); better AOE than Mercs; and, when used properly, good self-heals. Is the class where it should be? Absolutely not! We need a 3-4% buff to damage, but it's certainly not unplayable or pointless. It just can't be played like it once was. Now, with that said, I would definitely not classify it as a leading AC right now, except in heals.

Now, if you want to try a true pointless class, try DPS Powertech. I picked mine back up last week and it's way worse than where Sorcs are. It's just awful. That class has great burst but just awful defensives.
Kuvox | Rakit | Ethelmerman - The Ebon Hawk & The Harbinger

verfallen's Avatar

08.06.2017 , 09:34 PM | #3
One thing, 1st classes will always have a slight best and slight worse, no matter the game. The fact sorc in sustained damage aint too hot right now, this no one argues. Altough with the recent nerf to Arsenal, Lightning aint too bad in its class.

What me and several other argues tough, is that unlike what you and a few other like claiming, the class is far from being the worthless garbage you claim it to be, and yes a good part of it is a learn to play it correctly.

1st, in pvp its as I,ve said in another thread you quoted only part of my answer and only provided affirmations of crappiness with 0 exemple of how your various abilities failed you vs our much more detailed replies of how various classes can be beaten. The class is a master at escaping focus, unless netted. And even if nets happen you should be able to deal with 1. Contrary to many your cc breaker is not your sole mean to escape focus, even a stunlocked one.

2nd, while I am somewhat not personnally at ease with madness, I know from first hand experience lightning can be a damn hard to kill class, and I've seen madness sorc equally as good at kiting around as I am.

The thing is I see a lot of people play their sorc like they do a merc or even worse, a sniper (because lightning share 35m range doesnt mean it shares its playstyle. Shocking I know). You do not have the ton of hard dcd merc has, nor do you have the combo of dcd/kb and sheer burst MM has, at least when vs you (it deals with other issues with other spec, mainly tanks).

The key to being successful with sorc tough, start even before the WZ. you have to spec it right to play to its force utility wise. Going in with no suppression and without the 2 boost to UP is a bad idea. I know the barrier heal sounds fine on paper, but it really isnt that much. Any decent sorc will not count solely on barrier to win, but use it as a cleanse/focus escape that allows other thing to come off cooldown, absorb a bit of damage, and start anew.

The other thing you want, is mobility. Emersion and Force Mobility are musts on this. And lastly you want both DR utilities (one is joined with the legendary utility that makes your UP have a lesser cd, and joined with it). I should say 3, because any pvping sorc will also run the base extra DR and extra healing received from the first tier.

WIth that, you're set to the sorc's strenght. A good mix of kiting (a lot), self-healing (a whole lot) and adding some decent DR when you are eventually going to be snagged by another class via some of their harder roots.

Resurgence change actually is a good thing imo, altough the dark heal nerf is annoying. But resurgence now is a decent instant heal you can and should throw on cd. surprisingly, sorc has a decent ability from its DoT/AoE based move to bypass most hard dcd, notably Responsive Safeguard and saber reflect. In a lesser extent you can also deal some damage to a merc with Energy shield and trauma regulators with those without giving a charge of trauma regulators.

This brings me to my next point : its imperative you know a bit the specs of the game and their tells, their dcds, their gap closer/anti kiting. You have a somewhat adaptable class in your hand and that adaptability must be put to good use, and your short but powerful and fast cooldowns DR must be used correctly. What "correctly" is vastly depends on what you are fighting, and what you have availaible.

The one class that has EVERYTHING better than sorc for pvp are concealment operatives. But I,ve given a run for their money to a couple pretty good one. But if you go head to head with a decent conc op, you WILL lose. They have arguably better self-heal, better burst, better mobilty, and more roots and fast stuns that you have the ability to avoid. They can also nicely ready their Volatile substance while you are under your shield, so it blow first thing when you drop it. Additionnaly they have a much better ability to avoid your damage than you do theirs.

For the rest, you should stand a decent chance assuming you are fast thinking and put your surrounding to good use.

If you fight a sniper in an open terrain...well yes you will lose. Its their homefield. A good fury mara with all its cds up? yes it will take a while, and you'll have to use an escape to avoid being in their clutch at key moments.

In a brawl with healers around as well as your own self-heals? You are not as easy to kill as you think, and you have a very interesting mix of rotationnal pressure damage and burst damage. You wont score as much damage as a Veng jug that dot spreaded with the DoT on Chilling scream utility, or an hatred sin that keeps its dot on a whole group at will with lacerate, but you should do decent.

In a finale note, yes some classes are extremely hard to kill, and some player playing those slightly better classes are true virtuoso with them from playing them since start. The fact they are in the current meta in a good place means those player will just melt your face. They'd probably melt it on a PT as well.

Its not BW job to buff your class to FOTM status just so you can beat that one extremely skilled fury marauder.

The disparancy between sorc and the best is far from being as bad as you claim. Possibly some small buff could be possible, but anything of the magnitude we regularly see on this forum would be serious overkill, and just create the new FOTM.

If you don't believe me, then why dont you roll a merc and a sniper, go fight those players that hands you your butt with your sorc and tell me how that went.
Verfallen (Assassin) | Azorek (Sorcerer)
Veroth (Marauder) Altamira (Merc) Aing (Sniper)

Verfalled (sage) | Tiemrys (Shadow)Verfaing (Sentinel)Evenroth (Commando)
Fear The ShadowHumper Legacy! May contain sarcasm

Koppster's Avatar

08.21.2017 , 01:21 PM | #4
and just create the new FOTM
What, like sent/mara or commando/merc? Why is it okay for the game to undergo such huge swings in balance and why is it ok to have one classes ability to do damage trump nearly every other classes ability to do the same?

In mara fights, I spend more time trying to create space and combat the endless snaring/interrupting than I do casting anything. As such, I am left with dots (lol!) instant casts and talented Thundering Blasts + procs, which simply do not do enough damage to overcome their mitigation before I am out of defensive cd's and have no choice but to take a dirtnap.

Maybe the situation improves at 70, I dunno, as it stands, I'm reluctant to bother. Why should I have to play 5 times better to be half as effective as someone else? Where's the incentive? As it is, beyond roleplay and looking at the pretty lights, if you want to play a ranged dps in PvP in this game you're doing yourself a disserve rolling a sage/sorc when there's other classes that do it so much better with 5 buttons. Or just create a melee character and faceroll your way to victory.

starcckwalker's Avatar

09.20.2017 , 09:25 PM | #5
I just want Lightning Barrage back (2x faster lightning channeling). So we can have a better burst and scare the pesky maras / juggs away like we did back in the days.