So I've looked at the DPS leaderboards for HM 16 and 8 man, and that's great to get an idea of who the best players in the game are, but I was wondering...

 

How are my numbers doing? Not compared to top in the game, just in terms of: Am I a serviceable DPS character?

 

Last night, my Guild's 8 man HM progression team was doing HM DF. We all had parsec up, etc. For Nefra, I parsed at 2.9k DPS. For gear I am in full 78s, but no set bonuses (new HM team, we are gearing healers and tanks with set bonus first), one obroan FR and one Underworld SA. All of my gear is augmented purple 28 might. I have zero crit in my build. Power is at 1419 Bonus Damage 1606 health is at 39k, strength is at 3418 endurance is I believe 3448. I have a LITTLE too much accuracy ATM (112.5 force accuracy), but that will be fine when I optimize one more enhancement and switch a oriconian foestopper implant for an oriconian pummeler implant. My mainhand is mod and enhancement 78 with hilt being a 72.

 

With allllll that **** being said, with me being a pure Combat Sentinel with no set bonus...

 

Is 2.9k on Nefra a respectable parse? Also, I've YET to see anybody on this forum make a post that sort of gives a range of what your parse numbers can improve to when going from ZERO set bonus pieces to a 2 piece set bonus then to a 4 piece. I'm not asking everyone to do the legwork for me, I'm just trying to see if I can get a range.

 

TL;DR, thanks for all your input.

Edited March 24, 2014 by justinplainview

For a melee dps (or any dps that isn't requested by group to cleanse) nefra is basically a dummy parse for you. Your losses due to movement are in some ways mitigated by your extra focus build by being attacked. What this all means is that for all intensive purposes you can consider your nefra parse to be about your maximum single target boss dps.

 

Now is 3k on nefra anything to go crazy about? No, but it's not bad either. A sent in your gear can probably reach 3300s-3400s but again 3k isnt bad at all. The real test is how much (if at all) does that drop in the rest of the bosses in df/dp hm (or even tfb/snv hm for comparisons).

 

If your dps drops significantly below 2k in any of those fights then I'd say you have some work to do. In fact for your spec you should be able to beat that nefra parse on a few of those bosses (grobthok being the most blatantly obvious).

 

If on the other hand, you retain mid to high 2ks on the rest of your bosses then I'd say you are in a decent shape once you get more set pieces/optimized enhancements.

 

Really I'm just saying one boss isn't enough to judge upon.

You're saying Jedi Sents with zero set bonus are hitting 3.3 to 3.4 k on the regular? I'm that far behind? As for other bosses: on Dread Masters I'm roughly at 2.18k, Draxus 2.4k. I actually never have a fight in any op where I average below 2k. Again, I say this not to brag, I know thats what needs to be expected of me, I'm just trying to get a range. And the next question then becomes: if you were saying people are parsing 3.3 to 3.4k dps without set bonus, then where exactly am I leaving dps on the table when I am lagging behind roughly 300-400 dps? My rotation is roughly as tight as it can be with the amount of procs in my skill tree (Precision slash always up, zen always up, never MS or BS outside those windows, Dispatch often, Blade Rush whenever possible without wasting higher damage opportunities (also giving myself the Opportune Attack buff as often as possible)... I appreciate you responding and giving me an idea of where I'm at. Just a little confused now. And when I get home from work tonight, I'd be more than happy to post a combat log from parsec for you guys to look at and tear apart to hell (I'm totally fine with constructive criticism, I have no illusions about my skill.

 

*it should be said that my parses on all bosses in SM hover around 3k, but SM doesn't matter at all to me, I just need to keep improving on my HM parses. I know that, for instance, my Draxus numbers will go up as the mechanics become more and more simplistic and faceroll for me, so there's that.

Edited March 24, 2014 by justinplainview
addendum to DPS parse question I answered

You're saying Jedi Sents with zero set bonus are hitting 3.3 to 3.4 k on the regular? I'm that far behind? As for other bosses: on Dread Masters I'm roughly at 2.18k, Draxus 2.4k. I actually never have a fight in any op where I average below 2k. Again, I say this not to brag, I know thats what needs to be expected of me, I'm just trying to get a range. And the next question then becomes: if you were saying people are parsing 3.3 to 3.4k dps without set bonus, then where exactly am I leaving dps on the table when I am lagging behind roughly 300-400 dps?

 

Look 300-400 dps in carnage is the difference between almost (95%) and completely prefect mastery (and some nice RNG) of your spec, and when I say they hit on the regular, I mean the best players in combat can take your gear level and hit 3.3-3.4k with it.

 

Based on your other bosses you don't seem to be in a bad spot. None of those (2.2k Council, 2.4k Draxus) are bad, but they definitely have room for improvement even in your gear. But since they are not bad, I'd say you're probably good enough to get through and get gear, so just keep improving boss by boss (also learning to recognize what bosses do what when to maximize your dps just takes practice).

Okay, that was actually extremely helpful, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and explain everything. I guess I just need to keep optimizing my gear and get to where the fights in HM feel like a faceroll breeze ( fights 1-3 on DF HM already feel like that)

The sentinel set bonus is HUGE. Both of them will increase your dps by a substantial amount. There are little things here and there that you need to learn in order to parse 3700+ in combat.

 

For example make sure you are using dispatch before you use precision slash and BEFORE the saber hits the target you use precision slash and this way you are able to get 4+ attacks under one precision window. For example you would want to go dispatch - precision - master strike - blade storm without zen, and dispatch - BS - master strike - blade rush/twin saber throw under zen. You can also use the dispatch trick with twin saber throw but it is not as easy to do because you don't want to hold off on your window waiting for it to come off CD.

 

Another thing is to use cauterize on cooldown assuming you have time to fish for a BS proc or already have one for your next PS window. Also NEVER use zen without being able to get at least 2 attacks under PS. The safe zone is to use it when your PS is 4.5 secs until its off CD or you're about to get a HoJ proc.

 

Something else you can do is go over logs and see what you're doing differently and what you can do to fix it.

Heres a parse I did a while ago.

http://www.torparse.com/a/606677/time/1393669076/1393669342/0/Damage+Dealt

Edited March 24, 2014 by TrillOG-

I already do Dispatch before Precision Slash, that is wonderfully helpful for my rotation. Let's see if I can find my combat log for Nefra last night.

 

Nefra Parse Log

 

That's the APM and DPS info, I'm trying to find a way to upload the full log without going past the character limit.

 

EDIT: Here's the log in a Google Docs file: PARSE LOG

Edited March 25, 2014 by justinplainview

Get both set bonuses and you'll see a HUGE increase in dps. Going from no bonus to 4set is maybe a 300 dps increase? It's hard to say exactly, but I do remember how my numbers skyrocketed when I started getting the setbonus in the start of the expansion. But 2.9k still sounds a bit low, with that gear you should be able to break 3k easily. In full 78 you should be able to do 3.5k-3.8k as Combat Sent on Nefra. But it's a start.

 

Don't focus too much on those "leaderboards". Half of the bosses is only about whoring aoe. Compare your dps against your own dps the previous week, and try to always improve. And if you absolutely want to compare against leaderboards, look at players playing the same spec as you. Combat cannot compete with Focus on Draxxus, etc. And look at the length of the fight, total damage done, the DPS can sometimes be misleading.

Get both set bonuses and you'll see a HUGE increase in dps. Going from no bonus to 4set is maybe a 300 dps increase? It's hard to say exactly, but I do remember how my numbers skyrocketed when I started getting the setbonus in the start of the expansion. But 2.9k still sounds a bit low, with that gear you should be able to break 3k easily. In full 78 you should be able to do 3.5k-3.8k as Combat Sent on Nefra. But it's a start.

 

Don't focus too much on those "leaderboards". Half of the bosses is only about whoring aoe. Compare your dps against your own dps the previous week, and try to always improve. And if you absolutely want to compare against leaderboards, look at players playing the same spec as you. Combat cannot compete with Focus on Draxxus, etc. And look at the length of the fight, total damage done, the DPS can sometimes be misleading.

 

300 is very very high estimate, the number is closer to 150 dps more.

 

+4% damage from activating berserk (for 15 seconds), with +8% ravage damage, and a reduced CD on frenzy.

The 8% on ravage and reduced CD on frenzy will barely increase total dps by 1~2%, and even if you get 100% uptime on berserk the it will not increase damage by more than 4%. So If we give it 5~6% more dps, he will be doing around 145~175 dps more <- this number is assuming you always had the dps buff from berserk on.

 

I would expect the dps increase to be 3~4% total from the set bonus.

Edited March 25, 2014 by znihilist

I on the other hand almost never use Master Strike during PS-windows (unless I can get a Zen-MS in), since for maximum Blade Storm uptime (assuming perfect procs) you need to use it as the first ability on the first window and the last on the second. This makes using non-Zen MS in the first window bad, because you would most likely miss the last tick (the one that matters). If you can fit in the second one, then sure, but I usually just spam BR to fish for procs more reliably. Nothing sucks more than hitting the second PS cycle without Opportune Strike up.

 

I also tend to use Zen immediately and not save it for any certain spot, though that might be something worth fixing.

 

But granted, Combat is the spec with the most fiddle-room with little details. As was said, 2900 is good (was there an add still alive when Nefra died and you had extra seconds of battle at the end? or were you lucky/is it cropped? ) but it will get better with the full setbonus.

If all the dps in your group is good (ie you have 4 really good dps and you kill it really fast) and you get nice rng a combat could probably do 4k on that boss. but 3.4-3.5+ is what you should be getting realistically in full 78 with set bonus. Thats probably what i'd do realistically when its 16m as 8. (so the fight takes longer )

 

Nefra when played with the intended number of players.. is a weird fight when speaking about combat sentinels because while the sustain dmg of combat is ok if the other dmg dealers are good you will probably kill it before your numbers even out from your initial burst at the start so with 3 other good dds...

 

Also set bonus is a pretty big boost to dps..

Edited March 25, 2014 by AngusFTW

I on the other hand almost never use Master Strike during PS-windows (unless I can get a Zen-MS in), since for maximum Blade Storm uptime (assuming perfect procs) you need to use it as the first ability on the first window and the last on the second. This makes using non-Zen MS in the first window bad, because you would most likely miss the last tick (the one that matters). If you can fit in the second one, then sure, but I usually just spam BR to fish for procs more reliably. Nothing sucks more than hitting the second PS cycle without Opportune Strike up.

 

I also tend to use Zen immediately and not save it for any certain spot, though that might be something worth fixing.

 

But granted, Combat is the spec with the most fiddle-room with little details. As was said, 2900 is good (was there an add still alive when Nefra died and you had extra seconds of battle at the end? or were you lucky/is it cropped? ) but it will get better with the full setbonus.

Never ever use MS unless PS is up. That is a HUGE dps loss and honestly MS is very underwhelming without it. Also I'd play around with what I said about using zen when PS is 4.5 secs off CD or a HoJ proc is about to happen. It'll help your dps substantially, using zen for PS windows is the difference between getting 3 attacks and 4. Plus if TST is off CD that's potentially 5 attacks in 1 PS window instead of 3.

I didn't crop the parse, there were no adds Alive after nefra dropped. The only part of the combat log I even touched was in parsec I filtered my log to show only damage outgoing (my damage to boss). I posted the full log on a Google doc and showed a parsec screenshot of the window with the APM of that DPS for that fight at just over three minutes in length. As for the person asking how the rest of the DPS was, the majority of the DPS on our 8 man team were between 2.5-2.7k for that fight(a sage a slinger and a Vanguard I believe) . Also, apologies for not specifically quoting and responding directly, I'm at work answering from my phone. Edited March 25, 2014 by justinplainview

Get both set bonuses and you'll see a HUGE increase in dps. Going from no bonus to 4set is maybe a 300 dps increase? It's hard to say exactly, but I do remember how my numbers skyrocketed when I started getting the setbonus in the start of the expansion. But 2.9k still sounds a bit low, with that gear you should be able to break 3k easily. In full 78 you should be able to do 3.5k-3.8k as Combat Sent on Nefra. But it's a start.

 

Don't focus too much on those "leaderboards". Half of the bosses is only about whoring aoe. Compare your dps against your own dps the previous week, and try to always improve. And if you absolutely want to compare against leaderboards, look at players playing the same spec as you. Combat cannot compete with Focus on Draxxus, etc. And look at the length of the fight, total damage done, the DPS can sometimes be misleading.

 

You're saying in full 78s with ZERO set bonuses, I should be getting 3.5k-3.8k? I've never seen a combat sent without set bonus parse that high. I'm not the best by any means, I know I can push upwards of what I'm at without setbonus but the top parsing combat sent is at just around 4k and that was full set bonus. Most set bonus combat sents I've seen hover at 3.6-3.8... Please show me where the heck there are non set bonus sents in combat spec just slinging those numbers around, because I've never seen that. The rest of what you said is very helpful info, though. Thanks for taking the time to respond

Again, I think he was making more of the point I was. (well everyone here has been saying pretty much the same thing.)

 

Look, what you're doing is more than good enough for all current content.

 

Is it great? No. Is it bad? No.

 

Keep working and keep improving, and you'll be in fine shape.

 

Everything else is just Epeen stroking, which you won't find anyone in here to do that for you.

What this all means is that for all intensive purposes you can consider your nefra parse to be about your maximum single target boss dps.

 

Sorry gotta say it: "For all intents and purposes" is the phrase.

Again, I think he was making more of the point I was. (well everyone here has been saying pretty much the same thing.)

 

Look, what you're doing is more than good enough for all current content.

 

Is it great? No. Is it bad? No.

 

Keep working and keep improving, and you'll be in fine shape.

 

Everything else is just Epeen stroking, which you won't find anyone in here to do that for you.

 

I have no interest to epeen stroke. At all. I'm new at HM raiding, and our team is new. Right now I'm our top DPS. I want to improve and minmax ANYWHERE I can. That's why I'm asking so many pointed questions. This thread and everyone's answers, yours included have been so helpful. I'm making this post in general saying hey I'm doing what I can where can I improve. I just needed to know my ceiling with and without set bonus bc at the moment one of our dps is a little unoptimized so anywhere I can add dps it allows us to carry a little. I have no ego with this stuff. I don't have a ton of nightmare achievements, this is my first MMO, and I basically search these forums as well as dulfy and swtorboard for any and all insight possible. So if I came off like I wanted to boast or be in a position to, apologies, because my intent was the opposite. I just want to be the best sent for my team that I can.

Edited March 25, 2014 by justinplainview

This is off-topic, but still.

 

Sorry gotta say it: "For all intents and purposes" is the phrase.

 

Well that actually wasn't the phrase I was meaning at all. I understand the difference and the "intents and purposes" lineage and etymology, but if you actually recall of what all intents and purposes means in the most primal sense, the phraseology refers to the idea that for all reasons, intentions, and/or causations something is done. This is in accordance to its intention as a hard-line (absolute) message and phrase first appearing (known) in a dogmatic law during the reign of Henry IIV. Intensive purposes has a nuanced different meaning. It emphasizes the inclusion of any reason that is non-trivial. While intents and purposes is often marginalized to mean the same thing as its so-called misconstrued siblings, they are in the idiomatic sense very different things. I did not intend one to mean the other. This is an eggcorn by the way, so used that in the proper sense the two are given different meanings by the linguistic community (folk etymology).

Edited March 26, 2014 by DuEldrvarya