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Zero reason to play gsf - need "ground" incentive and LEGACY based requisition


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Sorry, but it really isn't much of a grind to get your ships maxed out now. They've cut the req needed in half from what it was. You should easily be able to max out a ship within 2 weeks of steady play (should be far shorter then that to be honest).

 

Shouldn't need to use any CC's to get your ships mastered at all.

 

2) As for the Legacy req, there is a vendor on Fleet (outer ring in the GTN section) that converts Fleet comms to either Ship req (do this), or Fleet req (don't do that), as a Legacy grant you can ship from one character to another. 350 Fleet comms lets you get a Major Ship Requisition token that is LEGACY bound, so you can then mail it to the character you want to upgrade.

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Theres no reason to spend a single CC on GSF at all. Ive got one character at near max lvl from nothing but GSF, and I have 4 characters at max 248 full gear doing only gsf and some base pve content.

 

GSF is also still one of the best money makers in the game and one of the easiest exp makers as well

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GSF provides xp for leveling characters, and command points and unassembled components for lvl 70 characters. When the unassembled components became bound to legacy they became especially useful. Command crates and unassembled components from GSF have greatly aided me in gearing several characters for raiding. GSF has also occasionally been useful in Conquest.
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The grind is there and it's ridiculously long. After 3 days of queing gsf for as long as i possibly could my ship still sucked and was nowhere near completion. This is a joke and pure p2w unless you're up for an extremely tedious grind.

 

I decided to spend 2k cc on requisition transfer from my grants and suddenly my ship is capable of quickly eliminating people and weapons actually deal damage and myself having much easier times ending up in top 3.

 

This is WRONG. Requisition transfer should have been a credit sink if anything.

 

People don't play and enjoy GSF as much because a massive advantage is locked behind a paywall or unreasonable grind and what's worst - it's character and not legacy based.

Edited by Alec_Fortescue
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The grind is there and it's ridiculously long. After 3 days of queing gsf for as long as i possibly could my ship still sucked and was nowhere near completion. This is a joke and pure p2w unless you're up for an extremely tedious grind.

 

I decided to spend 2k cc on requisition transfer from my grants and suddenly my ship is capable of quickly eliminating people and weapons actually deal damage and myself having much easier times ending up in top 3.

 

This is WRONG. Requisition transfer should have been a credit sink if anything.

 

People don't play and enjoy GSF as much because a massive advantage is locked behind a paywall or unreasonable grind and what's worst - it's character and not legacy based.

 

If your using CC's your doing it wrong.

1) use fleet comms to convert for Legacy bound: Major Ship Requisition grants. 350 fleet comms for 4k req per ship

2) if you find the queu's to long, you can always get fleet comms from the terrible PvE rail shooter to help speed up the GSF grind.

3) It used to take 150k+ to max out a ship. Last year about this time they cut all req needed per upgrade in half. This is not a heavy grind.Pick up your dailies every day, do your weekly, and if you haven't done Intro to conquest that will also give out grants to upgrade your ships.

 

It should only take a few matches for your ships to be semi effective. Maybe 40-50 matches at most to be close to being mastered (which can be done in about a week). 1 week to grind a ship isn't bad (+ dailies/weeklies give req for every ship so make sure to get those every day).

 

The big thing is to Upgrade wisely on what order your doing your upgrades to make you effective at the beginning.

 

Also something to know, if your trying to get req to master ships. The more medals you get during a match, the more Ship req you get. So parking in a bomber won't get you a lot of medals, so won't give you much req per match. Another words, you need to do damage, get assists, kills, capture Objectives (when in Dominations), Defender points (in Dominations), kill Turrets (in Dominations) etc.

 

Edit: Most people should easily get 700-1000 Ship req per match (if the daily bonus is already used).

Edited by Toraak
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dude, fleet comms from one daily and weekly in negligable amounts. And who would play on rail space in 2018?

 

well consider this. you do 1 daily on multiple characters, say 5 per day, and in a week you'll be able to get 5 Legacy bound Major Ship req grants for the one character you really want to work on. And honestly if I wanted to farm those legacy bound ship req grants, I'd go back and do those old PvE rail shooters anyway.

 

Back in the day getting 100 fleet comms per day was nothing at all. It's all a matter of how badly you want to speed up the leveling of the ship. MMO's are all about putting in the effort, i've given you options, and you laugh at it. This tells me you don't really want to work for it, you just want to complain about it.

 

My point being regardless if your bothering with the Legacy grants or not Gearing up the ships is nothing. If you consider that a grind then perhaps you do not understand how it used to be. Leveling your ships now is absolutely nothing compared to what it was at this point last year. (and this is coming from someone who leveled up multiple alts on several servers back then).

Edited by Toraak
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well consider this. you do 1 daily on multiple characters, say 5 per day, and in a week you'll be able to get 5 Legacy bound Major Ship req grants for the one character you really want to work on. And honestly if I wanted to farm those legacy bound ship req grants, I'd go back and do those old PvE rail shooters anyway.

 

Back in the day getting 100 fleet comms per day was nothing at all. It's all a matter of how badly you want to speed up the leveling of the ship. MMO's are all about putting in the effort, i've given you options, and you laugh at it. This tells me you don't really want to work for it, you just want to complain about it.

 

My point being regardless if your bothering with the Legacy grants or not Gearing up the ships is nothing. If you consider that a grind then perhaps you do not understand how it used to be. Leveling your ships now is absolutely nothing compared to what it was at this point last year. (and this is coming from someone who leveled up multiple alts on several servers back then).

 

No, i am not going to consider this. You literally tell me to play unenjoyable matches as a punching bag that can't kill anything because it has no unlocks. That's literally throwing matches for the sake of participation rewards. That's trolling.

Edited by Alec_Fortescue
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1st of all. this sounds like a L2P issue. Many people can do well in stock ships, so with minimal or no upgrades they can be effective. I know most of the time I can pull respectable numbers in a ship that has no upgrades. I'm not saying it's easy, you need to realize your not upgraded and fly far less aggressively, and be more evasive, but you can be very useful to your team. flying near a sat defending getting damage/kills/assists makes you very useful in Domination matches. In TDM's you'll need to be careful and know who is near you, and fly evasively. If you get 3-5 kills, and die 1-2 times with 20k+ damage (which is not hard to do in a ship with ZERO upgrades) your useful to your team.

 

If you don't like the options I've given you, then fine, however flying 40-50 matches at 700-1000 ship req per match, + dailies/weeklies picked up is not a grind at all. getting a ship mastered in 1-2 weeks is simply easy.

 

Edit: you should really start being more effective after 3-4 matches at most anyway.

Edited by Toraak
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I play GSF on alts that I want to gear up, because with the CXP from GSF I can gear them faster than I can in the ground game.

 

Back when it was the cool thing to do, I tried CXP farming with the Vet/Master mode 5 minute Chapter 2 speedruns, where you basically just skipped all the NPCs. It was a nifty trick, but aside from being repetitive to the point of being boring it was significantly slower at earning CXP than GSF matches were. The speedrun got nerfed because the rewards were too good. GSF rewards haven't been nerfed, at least not yet.

 

You do have to participate for GSF to yield good rewards, and at least modest skill is also needed. Meet those conditions though, and in terms of gearing from CXP level 1 to the end of CXP level 3 playing GSF for the ground game gearing is more rewarding than playing the ground game is.

 

 

 

Looking around I couldn't find an updated requisition earning guide. With changes in 5.0 most people of the guide writing persuasion figured that requisition had become so easy to earn that no one could possibly need a guide to earning requisition anymore.

 

Which was perhaps a bit silly, because the GSF gearing system isn't really very intuitive, at least not if you look at the long history of posts by people who spent lots of time and effort and got very little out of it because they didn't understand how to make the system work efficiently in their favor.

 

So here are some fossilized old ones:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8186591&postcount=373

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8991900&postcount=30

 

The costs are old, so now things cost either 50%, 25%, or 0% of what they cost back then, and at least my guide predated the intro mission, so it's short by whatever the giant pile of fleet req. that mission gives you.

 

Also the meta changed a bit with 5.5 so I'll supplement Siraka's guide with a current budget friendly deathmobile:

 

Pike/Quell

Unlock with fleet req. 5k? 2.5k? Does anyone even keep track now that things are so cheap? At any rate, buy it with the intro mission rewards, you'll probably have plenty left over.

 

Barrel roll: 1750 ship req. to upgrade 2

Efficient targeting Magazine: 3000 ship req. to unlock and upgrade to 3

Concussion missiles: 1750 ship req. to upgrade 2

Proton torpedoes: 500 ship req. to upgrade 1

Leaving 6000 to 8000 ship req worth of discretionary spending under Siraka's 7 game budget, for a monstosity that can fire missiles until smoking wreckage is all that's left of the other team.

 

I'd probably put 3k into regen thrusters, unlock Heavy Lasers, and spend the remnant on Quick Charge shields, but one could just as easily sink that into upgrading Proton torpedoes and/or Concussion missiles.

 

The core functionality of what's a contender for the deadliest TDM ship in the current meta costs just 7000 ship requisition. Take the weekly mission, then for 4 days take the daily mission and play enough games, win or lose (so 4 to 8 games) do those dailies, which will also finish the weekly, and you have enough ship req for the base of a Pike or Quell build. At that point any productivity issues in matches are a pilot skill issue, not a ship gear issue.

 

Not all ships are that cheap. The Starguard/Rycer runs around 20k to 30k req for a similar level of core competitiveness, but assuming that the player actually plays during matches and earns some requisition, that's still on the order of 2 games a day for a week or a week and a half. Try gearing a character starting from level one for HM Ops, and get it done in 10 hours of play time.

 

Grind is mostly a subjective matter of whether you enjoy the content for its own sake or are doing it for other purposes, but in terms of getting to a competitive gear level per hour of game played, GSF is orders of magnitude more time efficient than the ground game is.

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Being perfectly blunt, all the apologist "you don't need this or that, it's not that grindy, stop complaining, etc" excuses is why Bioware messed GSF implementation and integration with the main game among other systems and features. You guys do more harm than good with the excuses. The reality is simple - Starfighter IS too grindy (despite the changes), there's little incentive, it's not integrated with the ground game etc. And the result is that few play it and this is coming from a regular GSF player Edited by Pietrastor
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Being perfectly blunt, all the apologist "you don't need this or that, it's not that grindy, stop complaining, etc" excuses is why Bioware messed GSF implementation and integration with the main game among other systems and features. You guys do more harm than good with the excuses. The reality is simple - Starfighter IS too grindy (despite the changes), there's little incentive, it's not integrated with the ground game etc. And the result is that few play it and this is coming from a regular GSF player

 

Compared to the command grind the starfighter grind is a sprint. The funny thing is as you regurgitate "no ties to the ground game", starfighter is one of the best ways to grind command.

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Compared to the command grind the starfighter grind is a sprint. The funny thing is as you regurgitate "no ties to the ground game", starfighter is one of the best ways to grind command.

 

I would also add that Starfighter is a great way to get Unaseembled components which ties into upgrading gear in the ground game.

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Being perfectly blunt, all the apologist "you don't need this or that, it's not that grindy, stop complaining, etc" excuses is why Bioware messed GSF implementation and integration with the main game among other systems and features. You guys do more harm than good with the excuses. The reality is simple - Starfighter IS too grindy (despite the changes), there's little incentive, it's not integrated with the ground game etc. And the result is that few play it and this is coming from a regular GSF player

 

When I'm gearing alts I consider the ability to earn more than 60,000 CXP per hour to be a pretty compelling incentive to play GSF. You have to know how to work the reward system to stack multipliers.

 

GSF gives rewards relevant in practically every other aspect of the game.

 

For the most part though, it doesn't communicate that those rewards exist, or how to go about obtaining them. That plus the steep gameplay learning curve is quite discouraging to new players.

 

Factually, the rewards are there, the rewards are generous, and the gearing is absurdly fast compared to the rest of the game. GSF is the least grindy part of SWTOR.

 

Perceptually though, none of that information is readily available to a player that hasn't already mastered how the GSF reward systems (which are a complicated confusing mess) work. Efficient earning of rewards pretty much requires understanding how the reward systems work, so ignorance is punished on the rewards front even if the player is doing well in terms of learning to play otherwise.

 

It's not surprising though. SWTOR's reward systems game-wide are a complicated confusing mess right now. GSF is just a bit more of a last minute patched together messy tangle than the rest.

 

 

 

It's not likely to change though. This sort of communication/guiding of players is considered relatively low priority, and they don't have enough time to properly address their higher priorities. We're probably stuck with what we have for quite a while.

Edited by Ramalina
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Stock rycer/starguard gets me in top five spots a good amount of the time. The problem is the exceptionally good players out there in pairs or 3 or 4 makes life difficult. Plus there is just so much to know and understand that takes experience only hard won by aloooot of games. The sheer amount of strategy and awareness many players havent even guessed at is always very apparent.

 

Playing on and off since it launched im still figuring out new things, and how to emulate strategies that once frustrated me to the point of "omg hackers,unfair,broken,etc" . It doesnt take that long though to catch up(maybe not equal, but to a point where losing feels like winning) to the very best, but like all indepth pvp people expect to jump in on top. Playing against much better players and asking experienced people questions helps alot. Plus lvling with GSF is great, multi tasking crew skills/gsf/class missions/heroics/GTN marketting good way to get alot done at once .

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There are plenty of game-mechanics reasons to play GSF, mostly related to progression (conquest, achievement farming, command points/unassembled components).

 

And there are plenty of reasons not to, mostly related to how hard it is for a newbie to find a fun match where your team isn't completely afk, or killing everything before you get in range. They still exist, they're just pretty rare.

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I'll agree that GSF is a good way to supplement UC, which is pretty much the only reason I step foot into that acrid pond, but I disagree that it's more efficient for grinding CXP than regular WZs. I'll sit in queue for 20-30 minutes on average waiting for GSF to pop, whereas WZs pop within a minute or so of being in queue. I can get 2-3 regular WZ matches in the same time it takes me to get one GSF match. And I win the majority of my WZ matches, unlike GSF.

 

The elephant in the room here is that GSF isn't very popular because most matches are ridiculously lopsided. Getting 3-capped or being on the losing end of a DM where the score is 47-3, is about as fun as a proctology exam. Add to that premade GSF teams and spawn camping, and it becomes a rather miserable experience rather quickly. For these reasons, I find that the most adamant defenders of GSF are often the very same players farming everyone else they convinced to play. For those of you that love GSF and have some skill at it, good for you, but don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining.

 

While that may ruffle some feathers here, the fact remains that the OP has a certain point. There needs to be some better incentives to play GSF, which in turn will increase the queue pops and bring more healthy competition to this area of the game. Otherwise, why would someone queue up for GSF and get obliterated over and over again, when they can queue up for several regular WZs in the same amount of time and at least have a fighting chance due to Bolster. God help them if they are new to the game and/or PvP in GSF, but regular WZs are much more forgiving in this respect. Until there is some game mechanism to draw more players to GSF, it will continue to be some back-water ghost town where few people live and most are simply passing by.

Edited by Mournblood
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I defend GSF...and now let's have a show of hands from the people that have been farmed by Lendul.

 

I understand making generalized all-encompassing remarks is easier, but it is also mentally lazy and disingenuous.

 

To speak to your analysis on WZ vs GSF rates. WZ only accrue points faster due to increased pops. Pops being equal, GSF gives more points and the games are faster. Following your logic, in a desert, sand is superior to water due to increased availability.

Edited by Lendul
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I defend GSF...and now let's have a show of hands from the people that have been farmed by Lendul.

 

I understand making generalized all-encompassing remarks is easier, but it is also mentally lazy and disingenuous.

 

To speak to your analysis on WZ vs GSF rates. WZ only accrue points faster due to increased pops. Pops being equal, GSF gives more points and the games are faster. Following your logic, in a desert, sand is superior to water due to increased availability.

 

His analysis missed the part where GSF had completely different mechanics from the ground game, which makes the learning curve that much steeper and more painful.

 

The reward/time ratio favors GSF, but the reward/effort ratio... doesn't.

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Stop charging CC for easier leveling up. It's tedious enough. Nobody wants to play GSF for many reasons. It's too grindy and there is absolutely no reward for doing it. ;l

 

If you spend less time posting on forums and more playing GSF you would have mastered 4 ships already!

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  • 3 weeks later...

GSF isnt for the faint of heart. It never has been. Ground pvpers come and play gsf and announce gsf sucks because they dont know how to do it the first time or two out.

 

You got to play. Your skill level will certainly be slower than the time ti takes to master your ships.

 

There are people that have played for years and are only average at best. Its not a bad thing, its just that some people are better at things.

 

You will not be a major factor in gsf overnight. Put in some time, learn what you could do better after each match and build on that knowledge. Instead of, damn, i sucked and hang your head. Ask veterans for advice, ship builds, etc.

 

Do not hang your head and pronounce 'zero reason to play gsf'. Do it because it is a challenge

 

Because i can tell you first hand, it gets frustrating sometimes. But, when that GSF switch flips on in your head, you will have a great time.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Do not hang your head and pronounce 'zero reason to play gsf'. Do it because it is a challenge

 

Do it because if you don't, we won't have anyone to spawn camp.

 

To be fair, that may not be something you do personally, but I've been in too many matches to count where the dominant team is spawn camping the weaker team (or triple capping, on DM). There is no challenge there. It happens all too often, like in the match I backfilled today where veteran players like Capernica (Imp) are spawn camping a bunch of new players in unmastered ships who were subsequently quitting the match. Do you honestly believe this encourages anyone to continue playing GSF? That the players on the receiving end of that said to themselves, we need to hold our heads up? Don't delude yourselves.

 

I will concede that after 5.9.2, GSF matches may improve, but it remains to be seen.

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