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Attacks that cannot be Shielded or Defended?


Kacynski

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Afaik the "attack type" determines whether an attack can be shielded or defended against. Whereas the rules are

 

- Defense works against "white attacks", aka ranged and melee attacks

- Shield works against "yellow attacks", aka force and tech attacks

 

Is this correct so far? If yes, which attacks can neither be shielded or defende?

 

As for damage types, Armor will help against Energy and Kinetic damage, but will do nothing against Internal and Elemental damage, right?

 

Confirmation or clarification would be greatly appreciated!

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defense works against all meelee and range attacks, but not against force/tech attacks.

shield works against all kinetik/energy dmg, but not against internal/elemental dmg.

as there are only meelee/ranged attacks that are kinetik/energy dmg shield works against everything defendable, however not everything shieldable is also defendable.

you can look at shield like a random armor component, as it works against exactly the same attacks as your armor does.

Edited by meisterjedi
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Melee/Ranged + Kinetic/Energy attacks can be defended and shielded

Force/Tech + Kinetic/Energy attacks can be shielded, but not defended

 

Both of the above attack+damage types are mitigated by armor.

 

Force/Tech + Internal/Elemental attacks are neither defended nor shielded against, and cannot be mitigated by armor.

The only stat that's useful against F/T + I/E is Endurance.

 

At present no mobs deal Melee/Ranged + Internal/Elemental damage.

Edited by Horano_Heresy
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Just checked my Revan logs to be sure, but Torparse does not give a 100% clear answer.

The attack in question is overloaded double saber strike and consists of multiple energy -> energy -> elemental hits. The other I/E attacks (heave, the tankvoids and the HK dot) are clearly force/tech.

The energy hits in each strike seem to be melee dmg for sure, as I defended quite a lot of them. However I also resisted several of the elemental hits. Resist implies force/tech dmg, but they only occured when I had explosive fuel up.

My guess is, that EF gives defense and resist chance and the elemental hit from the attack is acutally force/tech.

I can look through some other fights and confirm the EF hypothesis with you on our TS server in the next few days if you like.

Edited by meisterjedi
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At present no mobs deal Melee/Ranged + Internal/Elemental damage.

 

He is partially right because Internal and Elemental damage always is force/tech. So there is no M/R+I/E dmg but of course there is F/T+I/E damage. I don't know if Torparse shows it or not, used it a long time age. But other parsers shows it. There are plenty of bosses who do F/T+I/E damage.

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post

#1 Malaphar : M/R+K/E: 52,6%

F/T+K/E: 0%

F/T+I/E: 47.4%

 

#2 Sword Squadron : M/R+K/E: 51,5%

F/T+K/E: 48,5%

F/T+I/E: 0%

 

#1 Sparky :

M/R+K/E : 72,2%

F/T+K/E : 0%

F/T+I/E : 27,8%

 

#2 Bulo : M/R+K/E: 74,4%

F/T+K/E: 14,1%

F/T+I/E: 11,5%

 

#3 Torque : M/R+K/E: 65,6%

F/T+K/E: 10,4% <depends on how quickly your dps focus the turrets on the consoles>

F/T+I/E: 25%

 

#4 Master/Blaster : M/R+K/E : 54,1%

F/T+K/E : 29.9%

F/T+I/E : 15,9%

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Unfortunately I only found 2 Malaphar kills in my logs without an extended search, but in both fights the misschance on hammer smash was ~5% so it might just be a low precision attack.

Surprisingly explosive fuel didn't seem to have any effect on the amount of resists, although my sample size is far too small to make real conclusions. However that would contradict hammer smash beeing melee and EF granting resist chance as well if theese observations would be confirmed by more parses.

Edited by meisterjedi
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Unfortunately I only found 2 Malaphar kills in my logs without an extended search, but in both fights the misschance on hammer smash was ~5% so it might just be a low precision attack.

Surprisingly explosive fuel didn't seem to have any effect on the amount of resists, although my sample size is far too small to make real conclusions. However that would contradict hammer smash beeing melee and EF granting resist chance as well if theese observations would be confirmed by more parses.

 

Actually if you see "resist" at all, then that would be sufficient to falsify my conjecture. I was seeing between 20 and 30% "0 damage" ratios in the logs I was looking at, which fell in line with defense chance and was the reason I lean toward it being melee. I haven't actually done rigorous testing with it though.

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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Parsec put the note wiederstanden (german translation for resisted) behind all 0 dmg instances of hammer smash.

Not sure where the huge amount in your logs came from though. was this on your shadow or did you look at other tanks parses as well?

 

I was looking at a PT parse. I saw Parsec's resist note, but that doesn't come from the logs themselves (there is no mention of resist with Hammer Smash hits for 0 damage). I think it's just Parsec having a hard coded "resist" bucket for any I/E damage that hits for 0.

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Force/Tech + Internal/Elemental attacks are neither defended nor shielded against, and cannot be mitigated by armor.

The only stat that's useful against F/T + I/E is Endurance.

This is not entirely true.

 

There is an I/E Damage Reduction stat and Force/Tech Resistance chance applies to all known I/E attacks (possibly with the exception of Malaphar's Hammer Smash). However, you cannot gain those stats from gear, only from class passives and actives.

 

Regarding Malaphar, I also think his default attack is Melee and Internal. I think this because I have a high defend percentage against it even when I do not use Force Shroud, which should only be possible if my Defence and Deflection are applying to it.

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I was looking at a PT parse. I saw Parsec's resist note, but that doesn't come from the logs themselves (there is no mention of resist with Hammer Smash hits for 0 damage). I think it's just Parsec having a hard coded "resist" bucket for any I/E damage that hits for 0.

 

I investigated this a little more today and had 0% miss/resist on malaphars hammer smash. I did not use EF however as I'm pretty sure it gives 35% resist chance as well. Both my logs of several different fights and the ingame values for force/tech resist support this.

If your logs come from a PT that had a really high uptime of EF while tanking the boss (meaning he manages all add groups and only taunts occasionally to reset the stacks) 20-30% sounds perfectly plausible.

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I investigated this a little more today and had 0% miss/resist on malaphars hammer smash. I did not use EF however as I'm pretty sure it gives 35% resist chance as well. Both my logs of several different fights and the ingame values for force/tech resist support this.

If your logs come from a PT that had a really high uptime of EF while tanking the boss (meaning he manages all add groups and only taunts occasionally to reset the stacks) 20-30% sounds perfectly plausible.

 

One theory would be that it's a melee+i/e ability with an accuracy boost (not unprecedented!) to avoid resists by non-tanks.

 

A trivial way to test this would be to just hit Resilience/Shroud when the attack is coming and see if you get a resist in the flytext. If not, then it's definitely melee. I would run this test myself, but I'm traveling at present and don't have access to swtor.

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A trivial way to test this would be to just hit Resilience/Shroud when the attack is coming and see if you get a resist in the flytext. If not, then it's definitely melee. I would run this test myself, but I'm traveling at present and don't have access to swtor.

 

I looked through all of my logs for HM Malaphar. Sadly, though I used Force Shroud on several occasions it was only active during one Hammer Smash. That single instance of Hammer Smash was resisted, but with such a small sample size I can't rule out the possibility that it was random.

 

Out of 103 instances of Hammer Smash...

 

3 were resisted (Only one of these occurred during Force Shroud. This seems to be consistent with Assassin's 2% Force/Tech resistance.)

10 did 0 damage due to an unknown mitigation (I checked the combat log; it didn't show resist, parry, absorbed, etc.)

 

I'm confused by the "unknown mitigation" hits since those attacks that did 0 damage still conferred full threat as if they had hit. This is different from resisted or parried attacks that do only 1 threat. The party did not contain a Powertech, so this was not caused by Sonic Rebounder. It wasn't caused by Sonic Wall from my Jug cotank either, since the "unknown mitigation" hits usually occurred at times when I didn't have Sonic Wall on me.

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Had 8% resist on hammer smash, doesnt however falsify the fact that it might be F/T+I/E damage. I/E damage can be resisted therefore log shows 0 damage. If it was M/R it would be defendable. 8% of the attacks defended as a juggernaut with 24% defense doesnt seem to be right. So its the base chance to resist I/E attacks of 5% + some rnd factor +3% = 8%. Don't know why you expect it to be M/R. Its not defendable only resistable. Edited by Methoxa
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I wonder if the "unknown mitigation" that drops Hammer Smash to 0 damage without a resist is actually just being out of the circle. That would be a weird way to implement the mechanic, but not impossible.

 

I noticed the "unknown mitigation" hits usually happened a few seconds before or after I lost Savagery. But if simply standing outside the circle caused the 0 damage then I would see it occur more frequently in my log (while I tanked the adds for extended periods). My guess is that it's caused by standing inside the circle while having 0 stacks of Savagery. That would account for the rarity, since the timing of Hammer Smash would have to be just right to occur before the next application of stacks.

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