Slashd Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) The PvP Sorcerer Thread Introduction Hey guys, Frozen here. I'm a former gladiator in World of Warcraft and experienced MMO player throughout the years. I am currently playing a sorcerer in TOR and I have quite a lot of top tier PvP under my belt. I've been messing with different specs and testing out the viability of Lightning/Madness in PvP. In this thread I'll share my thoughts on the current state of sorcerer's, the specs I use in PvP and what I would like to see for sorcerers. Feel free to ask questions and critique my builds. The State of Sorcerer PvP This is probably the touchiest topic in regards to Sorcerer's at the moment. Many players throughout The Old Republic have been raging at being facerolled and omgwtfbbqpwned by Sorcerer's who can escape the fight with 90-100% health. There is no argument in the fact the Sorcerer has a lot of utility with Electrocute, Force Storm, Force Sprint, Force Slow, Creeping terror, Overload and Whirlwind. The list seems daunting and yet I would be hard pressed to say the Sorcerer is "OP". The sorcerer is a squishy glass cannon that can be focused down by 2-3 attackers in but a few seconds. Sith juggernaut's act as a hard counter to the sorcerer because of their ability to tank sorc dots with little to no repercussion. The Operative also gives sorcerer's trouble due to their insane burst openers. A sorcerer that starts a fight with 40% health after an Operative burst does not stand much of a chance in the fight. You also have to take into account that not all of the sorcerer's utilities can be used in quick succession due to the resolve system and thus enemies such as marauders will be able to stay on you after their resolve bar fills up from your vain attempts to cc them. Thus, I feel as if the sorcerer is in a fairly good place this early in the game. Madness PvP My Build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GhZbZcrfosMkrfz.1 Thoughts: Madness provides more versatility and movement than lightning in pvp. The madness tree allows the player to be mobile, deal fair damage, have an instance Whirlwind, the snare from Creeping Terror as well as the ability to instant cast Creeping Darkness with Wrath procs. The madness sorcerer lacks to ability to sit in one spot and trade damage with any high damage dealing class (marauder, lightning sorcerer, sniper, etc). Madness shines in being able to sit on the fringe of the fight and pick off/eliminate one enemy from the fight by snaring/dotting the player and removing them from the equation. Overall madness PvP is the most viable spec for sorcerers in a top tier pvp environment due to the mobility of the spec. Lightning PvP My Build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201oZbsbrdRrutzZcM0M.1 Thoughts: Lightning is played as a glass cannon spec with high damage and much lower utility than madness due to the fact that Whirlwind has a cast time, you lack the snare from Creeping Terror and you cannot instant cast Crushing Darkness. The lightning tree is a much less mobile spec and requires affliction to be up for the 100% crit of Thundering Blast. The snare on Overload in the lightning spec is iffy as it is a hard skill shot and you have to be close to your enemies for the spell to have any effect. The snare is nice, but it not as useful as the snare from Creeping Terror. The damage that you deal with lightning allows you to trade with high damage classes such as snipers and marauders without the need to kite, although your ability to deal with more than one player goes down significantly. The additional two second spell school is a plus as you can still spell school an enemy when their resolve bar is full. Lightning is not viable due to the fact that the pivotal abilities of the spec have high cast times and thus puts a target above your head to be focused, controlled and destroyed. The fact that you have a two second Thundering Blast cast and a three second Chain Lightning makes it almost impossible to retain viability. Hybrid PvP My Build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZcsMzdZcrcRsMkrc.1 Thoughts: This is one of the only hybrid specs that I consider to be viable in PvP. It seems as though this 0/13/28 talents are one of the few combinations that retains viability in pvp as well as pve. When you have Crushing Darkness up and you get a wrath proc you can cast a free chain lightning (something you cannot do in either of of above specs). It allows the sorc to have the potential for high burst dps without the reliance on cast times as heavily. Lightning spec alone is clunky and to cast dependent to be entirely viable. The madness tree allows a lot of kite-a-bility and allows more sustained mobile dps. I do enjoy this hybrid build as it allows a good combination of the two. Tips 1. Never go into a fight without your Static Barrier, it is a sorcerer's pivotal survival ability and thus you should have it up constantly. 2. You are not a melee, as a sorcerer you should skate around the fringe of the fight dealing high amounts of damage and avoiding getting focused. 3. If you get low pop Static Barrier and Force Sprint away to try to heal/grab a health node. 4. Although I do not have an extensive list yet this is the most important... Do not click or keyboard turn!!!. If you want to be a top PvPer then you need to use keybindings and use your mouse to move. There is no better tip that a seasoned PvPer can give than this one. Writers Note Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, feel free to critique my builds and or ask questions for me to answer in the space provided above. Please keep the questions TOR related and not about the OP. Good luck with the Sorcerer! Question for the readers: Would you guys enjoy watching a stream if I were to start running one when I play? Edited January 25, 2012 by Slashd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 Still accepting questions in the thread or via pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooby Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 No Corruption? We PvP too! Good post though thanks! But regarding Tip #2, I kind of prefer if there is a pack of people to be in the middle of it rather than standing a distance away because you are just much harder to target. Maybe just me or that I'm Corruption so I can heal myself, but I find my survival rate tends to increase doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeloss Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 thats just funny everybody is posting builds in guides with lightning and madness trees but no corruption seems this tree disappeared for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 I have never been a healer in my MMO days. I have either tanked or been a dps so the concept of healing and stat priority in that category is not my my forte. As a healer you should either try to zone the other teams dps when being a pocket healer or stay as close as possible to avoid getting line of sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivialed Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 The biggest issue I am running into in pvp as a 50 Sorc, is our lack of burst. We have alot of CC but almost all other classes have enough CC to murder us in the time we are CC'd with their burst. We are the only class in the game that cannot crit for over 3k. Almost everybody has something that just slams you really hard but us. I get crit for 5k-7.5k by BH/Trooper and Smuggler/IA classes on the regular. The Jedi/Sith Warriors do 2.5k-4k quite a bit and assasins/shadows do around 3-4k every backstab, and they have just as much cc. Yes, if we aren't focused and we are left alone we can be quite the nuisance and devastating but in most situations we are rushed and burned down in seconds. For the squishiest class in the game our burst DPS seems to be lacking. Healing is fine in pvp though, have seen healers do well, and with 13 points in corruption I heal decently atm too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 I agree with you Trivialed, the burst even in the Lightning tree is not even in the same realm as the operative (or its republic counterpart). Something needs to be done about this as operatives can come up behind us and cc us down to 20-30% hp before we have a chance to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeakSauCeee Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 When you say mouse to move? Like Lineage2 Click where to move ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirokai Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Why no love for the hybrid builds? Imo they're stronger than either full spec. Here's what I'm running with: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZbsMrdRrZcrMRsMz.1 It gives ample damage while kiting along w/ all the control you'd want from either tree, and still leaves room for burst due to CL w/ a wrath proc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingez Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Speaking for a 31pt madness or Wrath/CL build, you really don't need to be bursty like some other classes. Both these builds have amazing mobility, escapes and great sustained dps. Playing a ranged class is all about positioning, knowing where to stand, where to LOS, ect.. If you can do that you can dominate and put out amazing pressure against multiple opponents. You don't need insane burst, that would push these 2 builds over the top. Don't let your health get low either, if your being sniped down or whatever use your CC breaker or sprint to get to LOS and throw a heal or 2, re-shield and get back out there even if your at like 75% hp. If you can position yourself, micromanage your dots/deathfeild/cc you will top damage and kills every WZ your enter and do quite a bit of healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronisman Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I'd like to discuss some hybrid builds for pvp as well. Here is the one I like: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZdcMMdRrZcMcRsrk.1 What are your thoughts on the build or why your hybrid build may be superior? I see several hybrid builds without death mark, but imo it is too good to leave off the table. Edited December 28, 2011 by Ronisman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivialed Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Speaking for a 31pt madness or Wrath/CL build, you really don't need to be bursty like some other classes. Both these builds have amazing mobility, escapes and great sustained dps. Playing a ranged class is all about positioning, knowing where to stand, where to LOS, ect.. If you can do that you can dominate and put out amazing pressure against multiple opponents. You don't need insane burst, that would push these 2 builds over the top. Don't let your health get low either, if your being sniped down or whatever use your CC breaker or sprint to get to LOS and throw a heal or 2, re-shield and get back out there even if your at like 75% hp. If you can position yourself, micromanage your dots/deathfeild/cc you will top damage and kills every WZ your enter and do quite a bit of healing. I have played these builds my current build is a tri-tree hybrid which takes the best from all 3 trees. I made it for more survivability and it works to a degree. Im not a bad player, I understand how to play the class. The issue is our burst is not as good as it should be. Once you get crit for 6k then a follow up for 5k, it takes you down to 10-30% hp depending on how geared you are. From here most class can just auto attack you down. For us to pull that kind of damage it takes atleast several skills and running around + cc. The fix would be to revamp lightning to be more Burst DPS style, such as taking away the auto crit from thundering blast and raising the base damage on it and also giving a % dmg increase when targets are under affliction. This would allow us to be bursty without being overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereticZero Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Many players throughout The Old Republic have been raging at being facerolled and omgwtfbbqpwned by Sorcerer's who can escape the fight with 90-100% health. LOL too true, I can take on 2-3 republic players no problem with my sorc. Too easy. Sorcs are awesome. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) When you say mouse to move? Like Lineage2 Click where to move ? When I say clicking to move I mean that you should be holding down both mouse buttons and use Q-W-E to move forward/strafe. You shouldn't use A/D to turn and NEVER use S to back peddle. Such movements are clunky and a good PvPer will run circles (literally) around you. ------------- In regards to hybrid specs.. I'm not a fan of them as they don't utilize the full utility of either spec. The hybrid that is listed above does not provide the guaranteed crit and it does not have the snare on creeping terror (or death mark for extra dps) and thus it loses out on the staple abilities for each spec. I will post what I view as the most viable hybrid spec and the uses to the spec as an edit within the main thread. Edited December 27, 2011 by Slashd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Sombrous- Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I am interested in your theories on these builds, but I seem to not be able to see the builds in your OP. When I click the links I get a partially filled build tree. You make some great points about lightning, though it seems that a well-supported lightning sorc could be a very destructive force in organized pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythis Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 We have great burst with wrath just not single skill burst but any higher and we would be OP. Defence is the key and that only comes with expertise, skill and a good team. Include hybrid and healing and ill +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronisman Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I am interested in your theories on these builds, but I seem to not be able to see the builds in your OP. When I click the links I get a partially filled build tree. You make some great points about lightning, though it seems that a well-supported lightning sorc could be a very destructive force in organized pvp. Links to builds on torhead appear to not be functioning properly anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirokai Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/sorcerer/?p=000000000000000000002312022122122000003022202131201000000 That's the hybrid I'm rolling with (since torhead seems to be broken atm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronisman Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inquisitor/sorcerer/?p=000000000000000000012302020122122000003020302131221100000 That's what I'm thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I'll repost my builds in a bit. EDIT- Links seem to be working fine for me. -.- Hmmm... Edited December 28, 2011 by Slashd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Sombrous- Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'll repost my builds in a bit. EDIT- Links seem to be working fine for me. -.- Hmmm... Works on my phone. Might be a Chrome thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'm using Chrome, so I'm not sure what the problem would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Sombrous- Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Works now. Might've been something with their website, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Ah, well that's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashd Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Still accepting private messages... Please keep the messages on topic to the post. I will not help with healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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