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Unpopular opinion? Luke was portrayed correctly in TLJ

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Unpopular opinion? Luke was portrayed correctly in TLJ

annabethchase's Avatar


annabethchase
02.02.2019 , 06:08 PM | #1
Luke was a brash young man. "All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was... what he was doing." I consider this Yoda quote to be the summary of early Luke. So this is what I see as the baseline of his story arc across the Saga and leads to my next point -->

He did consider striking down Ben in TLJ, "for the briefest moment". Maybe the wisdom he once learned from Yoda finally sank in "“Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.” “Decide you must how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could, but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.” In ESB, he did not learn that lesson and went off to save his friends. You can interpret if he made a mistake in doing so or not, but the lesson remained that he couldn't predict the future. In TLJ, you see that lesson sink in when he does spare Ben, both as a Teen and in TLJ itself by not coming and killing him.

Luke DID NOT KILL Ben, even when he has an army ready to destroy everyone Luke loves. Instead, he still is giving him a chance at redemption. I happen to be a big believer that Ben is turning to the light in Ep9, but regardless of whether it happens Luke found a way to give Ben another chance. Luke paid the price with his life so that nobody else would have to.

Let's compare that to what we saw in ROTJ. Luke was dressed in all black for a reason. He was on the edge of giving in to the dark side himself. He fought with aggression and that was a large part of how he was able to get the better of Vader. But in the end, the lessons he learned brought him back from the brink of darkness and he saw that maybe his father could also be redeemed. However for the balance of ROTJ he was bordering on the dark side himself.

Compare that with TLJ where he's portrayed as a paragon of the Light Side with one brief moment of darkness. Heroes aren't different than villians in never having a desire to do the wrong thing. What makes a hero is they turn away from that darkness. By the end of TLJ, I was extremely satisfied with the story arc of Luke's life and he absolutely had a fitting end.
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Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
02.03.2019 , 08:34 AM | #2
Unpopular, sure, but I agree.

What did Luke really ever accomplish aside from that one shot at the first death star? How can he call himself a Jedi after spending just a year of training with that senile muppet on Dagobah? He beat Vader in RoTJ because he gave in to the dark side, and was only kept from fully embracing it because Palpatine was an idiot.

So yes, Luke is a mere shadow of the Jedi of old, with barely a year of training to help him keep in control of forces he doesn't really understand. Of course his students will question him, of course some of them will fall. He should never have tried to restore the Jedi order, it's gone, and he doesn't have the knowledge or means to restore it. When he finally realizes he is neither a good Jedi nor a good teacher, and his own hubris was responsible for Ben's fall, Luke does the only right thing and hides from those who might send him more pupils.

IMO, the closing to Luke's story is the best plotline of TLJ, the casino is fun but pointless, the fleet "chase" and its resolution are nonsense, and Action Girl is as bland as always.
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AdrianMusic's Avatar


AdrianMusic
02.03.2019 , 12:12 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by annabethchase View Post
Luke was a brash young man. "All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was... what he was doing." I consider this Yoda quote to be the summary of early Luke. So this is what I see as the baseline of his story arc across the Saga and leads to my next point -->

He did consider striking down Ben in TLJ, "for the briefest moment". Maybe the wisdom he once learned from Yoda finally sank in "“Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.” “Decide you must how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could, but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.” In ESB, he did not learn that lesson and went off to save his friends. You can interpret if he made a mistake in doing so or not, but the lesson remained that he couldn't predict the future. In TLJ, you see that lesson sink in when he does spare Ben, both as a Teen and in TLJ itself by not coming and killing him.

Luke DID NOT KILL Ben, even when he has an army ready to destroy everyone Luke loves. Instead, he still is giving him a chance at redemption. I happen to be a big believer that Ben is turning to the light in Ep9, but regardless of whether it happens Luke found a way to give Ben another chance. Luke paid the price with his life so that nobody else would have to.

Let's compare that to what we saw in ROTJ. Luke was dressed in all black for a reason. He was on the edge of giving in to the dark side himself. He fought with aggression and that was a large part of how he was able to get the better of Vader. But in the end, the lessons he learned brought him back from the brink of darkness and he saw that maybe his father could also be redeemed. However for the balance of ROTJ he was bordering on the dark side himself.

Compare that with TLJ where he's portrayed as a paragon of the Light Side with one brief moment of darkness. Heroes aren't different than villians in never having a desire to do the wrong thing. What makes a hero is they turn away from that darkness. By the end of TLJ, I was extremely satisfied with the story arc of Luke's life and he absolutely had a fitting end.
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Rebamcfan's Avatar


Rebamcfan
02.09.2019 , 08:05 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by annabethchase View Post
Luke was a brash young man. "All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was... what he was doing." I consider this Yoda quote to be the summary of early Luke. So this is what I see as the baseline of his story arc across the Saga and leads to my next point -->

He did consider striking down Ben in TLJ, "for the briefest moment". Maybe the wisdom he once learned from Yoda finally sank in "“Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.” “Decide you must how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could, but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.” In ESB, he did not learn that lesson and went off to save his friends. You can interpret if he made a mistake in doing so or not, but the lesson remained that he couldn't predict the future. In TLJ, you see that lesson sink in when he does spare Ben, both as a Teen and in TLJ itself by not coming and killing him.

Luke DID NOT KILL Ben, even when he has an army ready to destroy everyone Luke loves. Instead, he still is giving him a chance at redemption. I happen to be a big believer that Ben is turning to the light in Ep9, but regardless of whether it happens Luke found a way to give Ben another chance. Luke paid the price with his life so that nobody else would have to.

Let's compare that to what we saw in ROTJ. Luke was dressed in all black for a reason. He was on the edge of giving in to the dark side himself. He fought with aggression and that was a large part of how he was able to get the better of Vader. But in the end, the lessons he learned brought him back from the brink of darkness and he saw that maybe his father could also be redeemed. However for the balance of ROTJ he was bordering on the dark side himself.

Compare that with TLJ where he's portrayed as a paragon of the Light Side with one brief moment of darkness. Heroes aren't different than villians in never having a desire to do the wrong thing. What makes a hero is they turn away from that darkness. By the end of TLJ, I was extremely satisfied with the story arc of Luke's life and he absolutely had a fitting end.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I remember at first how I didn´t know what to think about Luke's portrayal and arc, but after seeing TLJ for the second time and thinking what he has gone through made me fully appreciate his character and story in TLJ.
Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianMusic View Post
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*Sigh* Comments like this remind how toxic Star Wars fanbase can be towards people with differing opinions.
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TheRazorBlazer's Avatar


TheRazorBlazer
02.09.2019 , 11:20 PM | #5
I've spoken about this several times in the past year. But this is my first time on these forums. As much as I understand your whole point about Luke's personality, I personally didn't agree with his depiction in Last Jedi. Not because it's the "popular" opinion. I felt like this on my first viewing before going on the internet to see the swarms of others hating on the movie. Now, at this point, my hatred towards the film has dissipated and I don't want to delve into a rabbit hole as I did when I initially walked out of the theater. So, I'll try to explain why I don't think his depiction was accurate.

First, I agree that Luke was known for acting impulsively, relying on his feelings rather than intuition. So, it makes perfect sense to me that he ignited his saber before Ben Solo in the hut. What didn't make sense to me though was Luke entering the hut in the first place. From my understanding, he sensed that Ben had a dark presence emanating from him. Now, I know Luke has shown traits of curiosity before such as him entering the cave on Dagobah. But, I truly don't think he would repeat this act if he'd known the source of the darkness was Ben. In fact, I can't believe this would the first time for Luke to sense this darkness in his nephew.
I think the Luke that redeemed his father would've arranged a session to speak with his nephew rather than creepily sneak into his private quarters and probe his mind. Luke knows first hand what it is like to struggle with the dark side. He is not like the Jedi before the Imperial era; the same Jedi who suppressed feelings of the dark side and refused to accept an individual that had conflicted feelings. Luke, and I would even say Qui-Gon Jinn, were more human than most Jedi. And by "human", I mean they were more understanding and realized that some people were imperfect.

My point being, I would've thought Luke would be a very compassionate and understanding counselor. I imagined him to be very down-to-earth, relatable, and more compassionate than any Jedi before him. Because that's who he was. And, I thought his character arc was always perfect in the originals because it juxtaposed with Anakin's wonderfully. It was love that created Vader, and yet it was love that redeemed him. Proving the Jedi of old wrong in their thought that love and compassion was always dangerous.

So when I saw TLJ, I was honestly baffled with the direction they took his character. In fact, I wasn't even expecting him to be such a main focus. I thought he was going to serve as the mentor figure to a vengeful Rey, who needed to understand the possibility of redemption in Ben Solo. But instead, it was the other way around. It was Rey who schooled Luke that there was still good in Ben. In turn, making Luke almost the central character with a fully realized arc in the movie. Yet, we'd already seen his entire arc in three movies.

At the end of the day, I don't care too much about it anymore cause I now express apathy towards the sequel trilogy. But to anyone who loves it, more power to you. I'm not here to dissuade from liking anything.
I just can't go against a legendary actor who played the role multiple times and voiced his disagreement to a director that was stepping foot into this universe for the first time in his life. How Rian Johnson got the keys to write and direct Star Wars will always be a mystery to me.

TheRazorBlazer's Avatar


TheRazorBlazer
02.09.2019 , 11:32 PM | #6
Sorry, accidentally posted same message. twice. Ignore this message.

Mzuta's Avatar


Mzuta
02.11.2019 , 11:27 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRazorBlazer View Post
I've spoken about this several times in the past year. But this is my first time on these forums. As much as I understand your whole point about Luke's personality, I personally didn't agree with his depiction in Last Jedi. Not because it's the "popular" opinion. I felt like this on my first viewing before going on the internet to see the swarms of others hating on the movie. Now, at this point, my hatred towards the film has dissipated and I don't want to delve into a rabbit hole as I did when I initially walked out of the theater. So, I'll try to explain why I don't think his depiction was accurate.

First, I agree that Luke was known for acting impulsively, relying on his feelings rather than intuition. So, it makes perfect sense to me that he ignited his saber before Ben Solo in the hut. What didn't make sense to me though was Luke entering the hut in the first place. From my understanding, he sensed that Ben had a dark presence emanating from him. Now, I know Luke has shown traits of curiosity before such as him entering the cave on Dagobah. But, I truly don't think he would repeat this act if he'd known the source of the darkness was Ben. In fact, I can't believe this would the first time for Luke to sense this darkness in his nephew.

It wasn't. Snoke 's darkside presence was lurking and influencing ben since before his birth. Which is why Luke started a new jedi order here's an excerpt from the novelization. " Like his father, Skywalker had been a favored instrument of the will of the Cosmic Force. That made it essential to watch him. And once Skywalker endangered Snoke’s design, it had become essential to act. And so Snoke had drawn upon his vast store of knowledge, parceling it out to confuse Skywalker’s path, ensnare his family, and harness Ben Solo’s powers to ensure both Skywalker’s destruction and Snoke’s triumph. Now the endgame he had foreseen was at hand.” He was sent to Luke because Leia couldn't shield ben from Snoke's influence. Luke tried as he might, he also failed. Ben is the opposite of luke. Luke has an affinity for the light but was tempted by the darkside time and time again. The cave in Dagobah, In the emperor's throne room where he uses his anger to best vader, and in TLJ seeing a vision of ben as Kylo Ren destroying everything he ever loved. He felt pain OF, he felt anger, he remembers (even says how the jedi allowed darth vader to rise and slaughter them) that been is his responsibility and in that moment of weakness his pain and anger got the best of him and he ignited his saber. Like I stated with that quote from the last jedi novel. Snoke like palatine before was also manipulating events behind the scenes keeping an ever watchful eye on Luke Skywalker who was the greatest threat to his plans.

I think the Luke that redeemed his father would've arranged a session to speak with his nephew rather than creepily sneak into his private quarters and probe his mind. Luke knows first hand what it is like to struggle with the dark side. He is not like the Jedi before the Imperial era; the same Jedi who suppressed feelings of the dark side and refused to accept an individual that had conflicted feelings. Luke, and I would even say Qui-Gon Jinn, were more human than most Jedi. And by "human", I mean they were more understanding and realized that some people were imperfect.
He had spoken with him.

Luke was training ben and taught him about the dangers of the darkside like yoda before him. It was as Luke stated in the movie in his arrogance he thought of the amazing potential of raising another champion of the light from the mighty skywalker bloodline. But once again Ben is the opposite of luke, he has a great affinity for the darkside and is being tempted by the light. The LJ novel goes in detail that after watching ben in sparring sessions he suspected that he was still leaning towards the darkside. So he used the force as kylo did did with rey in the force awakens but more subtly to check his suspicions and it was darker than he could imagined. That combined with the vision was too much. But he didn't strike Kylo down. He realized in that moment he failed ben as a teacher.

My point being, I would've thought Luke would be a very compassionate and understanding counselor. I imagined him to be very down-to-earth, relatable, and more compassionate than any Jedi before him. Because that's who he was. And, I thought his character arc was always perfect in the originals because it juxtaposed with Anakin's wonderfully. It was love that created Vader, and yet it was love that redeemed him. Proving the Jedi of old wrong in their thought that love and compassion was always dangerous.

You're remember a young hopeful naive luke skywalker. He is decade older in the last jedi. He was charged with the daunting task of not only rebuilding the jedi order but to keep his nephew from becoming the new darth vader. He failed at both. Which by the way was one of the themes of the movie.

So when I saw TLJ, I was honestly baffled with the direction they took his character. In fact, I wasn't even expecting him to be such a main focus. I thought he was going to serve as the mentor figure to a vengeful Rey, who needed to understand the possibility of redemption in Ben Solo. But instead, it was the other way around. It was Rey who schooled Luke that there was still good in Ben. In turn, making Luke almost the central character with a fully realized arc in the movie. Yet, we'd already seen his entire arc in three movies.

The scene you're referring to is reminiscent of when luke leaves dagobah to rescue his friends and yoda says don't go (luke also says this to rey). He knows that it's not going to go the way she thinks, because he not only suffered a physical defeat by vader but a soul crushing one when he realized that the monster he came to fear and hate is his own father. Then again in return of the jedi. Young Luke thought vader would join him and together they would defeat the emperor and he would have his father back. Vader as we all know eventually did at the cost of his life.Rey mirrors the young naive luke. Luke did not teach rey about these failure which Yoda later reminds him is one of the great lessons in life. But, although Luke could tell rey about his own failure like Yoda before him he could not really teach failure as the lesson is learned as a result of experience. Which is why Luke says it's "not going to go the way you think". As far as luke being a central character. He's luke skywalker of course there was going to be focus on luke. He was one of many important characters, so he had to have a great send off and in a very jedi way. Inspiring hope across the galaxy without ever using a lightsaber which calls back tot rotj which he throws down his lightsaber realizing his folly after giving into anger cutting off his hand in behavior unlike a jedi. This is how his story ends and from a certain point of view he took his laser sword and fought off the first order.

At the end of the day, I don't care too much about it anymore cause I now express apathy towards the sequel trilogy. But to anyone who loves it, more power to you. I'm not here to dissuade from liking anything.
I just can't go against a legendary actor who played the role multiple times and voiced his disagreement to a director that was stepping foot into this universe for the first time in his life. How Rian Johnson got the keys to write and direct Star Wars will always be a mystery to me.
Although, I too had some issues with the last jedi I loved it. But film is subjective so I can see how you didn't like it. I think that the fandom had too many expectations going in that there was bound to be disappointment. There are many examples. My favorite one was snoke's death. I saw rotj in theaters as a kid. Fan's thought Snoke was going to be a new more powerful sidious. In the original trilogy until return of the jedi he was just the emperor. Vader's boss. after ROTJ and we got Ian Mcdermott's masterul portrayal of deceit and deception in the form of Palpatine. He truly became a great fan favorite for many. Snoke only had 2 movies so for many his death was anticlimactic. For me I screamed in the theatre "OH sh*t" because I realized in that moment Kylo Ren would fulfill what anakin started. Anakin in episode 3 planned to kill palpatine and rule the galaxy with padme and his children. This is also why he put his hand out to rey and says join me. I instantly got it and thought is was brilliant. That's why for me it was disappointing yet understandable why many did not. It was expectation vs reality. But reality is molded by our own point of view. Many did not get that they wanted to see, therefor they felt very betrayed by an IP they loved so passionately. I can only say I am sorry it didn't work fo you. I hope we can get more stories that do moving forward.