Hey there,

So, i still havent played 3 out of the 8 storylines, and those are the Consular, Trooper and Smuggler story. For some reason the Consular doesnt seem really attractive to me, so i thought i would now play either a Trooper or Smuggler.

I'm gonna play it exclusively solo, so i want to primarily have fun and also feel engaged by the story. Therefore i'll be playing a Vanguard or a Scoundrel, as i think those will provide a funnier and more immersive gameplay than the other ACs.

My main concerns are the fact that i've always believed (and still do) a non-force user doesnt fit in Kotfe/et at all, i really have trouble when i want to roleplay a bit (just a bit, very mild) and make my head canon. MAYBE i can come to terms with the notion of my Vanguard being a highly trained and skilled elite soldier who is used to giving orders and also, due to training and technological devices he could, hypothetically, he could defeat force users, and lead the alliance. BUT I just cant see my Scoundrel, an evasive crate-smuggling and mischievous pirate, leading the alliance.

Anyway, the vanilla story is essential, and i believe it's the best part of the game. However, plenty of opinions on way, way too old threads i've digged out convey that the Trooper story is plain and simply bland. I truly enjoyed the Sith Inq and Warrior stories, and also the Agent one. I dont want bland stuff.

Others seem to believe that the Smuggler story, while providing good lines and some plot twists, ends up turning the Smuggler into a Republic errand boy. I also dont want to be an errand boy ffs, that's not what being a smuggler is about.

So, any opinion or advice on this will be really appreciated.

PS: Swtorista if you by any chance see this, i just wanna tell you that i love your channel and your vids, and lately i'm enjoying a lot your "Wonders of SWTOR" series. I truly have a great time with your gameplay, and your voice and way of commenting, reading and narrating the whole thing is simply exquisite. Thanks

Gunslinger is what you want, not Scoundrel. 'Slinger is so much more fun.

Story-wise, I always assume that non-force users have "force-infused" armor that protects against force effects and therefore, they are able to compete against force users.

IDK what jedi quaker is talking about. Slingers are so boring in pve. "Hurry up and sit behind this shield and shoot ****." Meanwhile scoundrels be like, POW! shotgun to your face. Stealth stealth stealth. ZIIPPPPP holotraverse teleport bish! Sucker punch sucker punch sucker punch. Trollroll Trollroll Trollrollolololol.

Anyway. Go Scoundrel. Great one-liners. And Gus Tuno is the greatest companion in the game.

I'm going to recommend Trooper over Smuggler, and Commando over Vanguard. Vanguard is a "melee" class (10m or less) while Trooper is a 30m ranged class.

I play Troopers and BH's almost exclusively, so I am biased - I think the Trooper story is faaaar better than the smugglers was. The Trooper is a soldier, given orders to follow, so being told where to go and who to check on makes sense to me...not so much with the Smuggler.

I'm playing through the smuggler story right now, dark side, and I don't really feel like a republic errand boy. girl. I mean every class kind of runs errands for someone, but I'm careful what dialogue options I take and I feel a lot more rah rah me! than than I do rah rah republic!

Also, scoundrel/scrapper for me, nothing beats stealth and blasting people in the back out of nowhere.

I'll be doing a dark side trooper sometime in the future so I can't really comment on what that feels like to play.

So I've played all story lines. It's been a while, but I liked the trooper more than the smuggler. The smuggler was ok, not too bad. If you are just playing the class quest, I don't remember there being a lot of force users involved. Next statement is about operative story line, didn't know if it would ruin it for others or not.

If you are playing the main story line like the planet quests, then going through to revan and so on, I don't think a smuggler or a trooper make sense.

Both Smuggler and Trooper have strong first chapters. Smuggler has more lighter elements while Trooper is more serious in tone.

The only times in KotXX where you’d be facing odds worse than you’d face just running around Corellia in the vanilla story are the times you’re going up against Valky’s kids and those are also the points where Valky would be trying to help you win anyway. Both the Trooper and Smuggler are regarded in story as exceptionally strong-willed so being able to handle most force related threats that aren’t basically Force Gods.

In terms of subclasses; if you’re looking at most plausibily facing lightsaber equipped Force users I’d say Scoundrel is your best bet. First, you do have a point in the vanilla story where you prove you’re too strong-willed to use Force persuasion on. Second, the shotgun and thermal detonaters you carry around aren’t things a lightsaber is going to be able to parry like they can a blaster. I generally go scrapper and get myself some teched-out armored gauntlets for my outfit that I can say are cortosis powered gauntlets for blocking lightsabers/punching out droids. Throw in the blood boiler along with the bushwacker probes, a stealth generator and kolto packs/probes and you feel like someone who has enough dirty tricks up their sleeves to counter the general hammer that most bad guys seem to use the Force as.

Another point in scrapper scoundrel’s favor is that because you can stealth past a lot of trash fights (I’ve managed to get through entire planets’ class stories while dropping less than a dozen mobs) and often drop your foes with a punch (or dirty kick... which is way more satisfying than it probably should be) instead of a blaster bolt it’s really easy to pretend you’re just knocking most of those guys out like a more traditional action hero instead of a guy with a body count in the thousands by the time they finish their vanilla story. That alone makes it something of a refreshing change from a lot of the other classes (even its mirror the operative Imperial Agent who’s stabbing people with poisoned blades).

I have played a smuggler scoundrel (healer) since launch. It is my main one I play. I love my smuggler and it is fun and I love healing. I also have a gunslinger but for me my healer is more fun.

She is also the first one that has been through all the expansions.

I prefer Commando to Vangard, and Gunslinger to Scoundrel. Why did you pick the opposite?

With regards to Commando vs. Vanguard, I play both, but I generally like the Vanguard a bit better because it is more mobile and doesn't carry around a gun bigger than they are. Commando's best spec (Gunnery) is also dead boring with just repeating the same 5 skills again and again regardless of the target. Its main attacks are also prone to getting interrupted by the multiple instances of knockback that show up at higher levels.

I tried to like Gunslinger, but it tends to have the opposite problem of the Gunnery Commando... too many attacks while suffering from even less mobility as most of them require you to be behind cover or using your defensive screen to employ. Also, just thematically they feel like one trick ponies (activate portable force screen that locks you in place and run through more than half a dozen different variations of 'shoot it with my blasters'). The fact that all three of their specs are Damage with no other tricks to fall back on doesn't help in that regard.

They and Commandos also run into problems with some of the KotXX fights that use the Reflect mechanic (i.e. any attack you make from more than 10m away gets reflected back and deals damage to you instead).

Vanguard by contrast has just one channel that can be used while moving and enough abilities to keep life interesting without going overboard. Most of your attacks are at the 10m range so they never have problems with reflect mechanics hosing them over.

My favorite of the bunch though is easily Scoundrel. Who has a reasonable number of 30 m attacks if you wanna blow up trash mobs at range and a nice, but not overwhelming, number of main attack skills. They're also entirely mobile skills so your various movement tricks aren't competing with your need to be crouched behind cover to use your best skills.

They also have stealth which opens up whole new options for getting through content (on one run through I pulled a Metal Gear and tried to see how few opponents I had to actually defeat to finish the vanilla story by avoiding every unnecessary fight) and an "Oh Crap!" escape option if a fight is going really sour.

You also have healing skills to help you bounce back or even try a different spec role entirely if you tire of just doing different variations of DPS.

Finally, you just feel more like the character who would be going through the vanilla story. You don't have a fancy energy barrier to hide behind... you have a shotgun and the ability to sneak around (which feels more in line with what a smuggler would be really good at, moving people and things around without getting noticed vs. shooting your way through everything). You pistol whip opponents and kick them in the balls for good measure. You feel like a character who is a bit down on his luck and getting by on improvisation and dirty tricks.

Basically, the Scoundrel feels more like a Hal Solo, Malcolm Reynolds (Firefly) or Danny Ocean who only fights when they can't avoid it. The Gunslinger feels more like John Wick trying to make his way through a story that is basically a heist/caper film.

Worth noting in this regard is that I tend to play more light-sided characters... Gunslinger might feel more appropriate if I was making more decisions like I'm a rising crime lord. But I don't so Scoundrel just feels much more appropriate to the story where you tend to let your sentiment and sense of fair play side-track you from getting whatever the big score you're currently after is.

The consular storyline is very boring, of all of them the most boring.

The trooper storyline is solid and unspectacular.

The smuggler storyline has a few good moments but for the most part it is rather plain.

You can play any of the three and if you don't have space for another two and can only choose one? then choose one, play it, then delete it and move on to the next. They are all worth a going through just for the experience.

I prefer Commando to Vangard, and Gunslinger to Scoundrel. Why did you pick the opposite?

SiegePro provided a lengthy explanation above, and i agree with most of the points. Still, the simpler answer in my case would be:

Vanguard: it feels very mobile, and i enjoy hurling detonators to my enemies. Going around with a huge weapon like the blaster cannon seems clunky, and breaks my immersion a little bit, especially when he/she carries it on the back just as if it were nothing. Also, the Vanguard playstyle feels to me more agile, with more flow.

Scoundrel: this is basically bc i think Han Solo is more a scoundrel than he is a gunslinger, and that's the type of character i'm pursuing. Also, both gunslinger and commando are like immobile blaster turrets, and i generally prefer a more dynamic combat style.

Keep in mind this is for a solo story gameplay. The story is quite long from the starter planet all the way till Nathema conspiracy or Ossus, soon. I'll be doing all class missions, planetary arcs, some side missions, some fps, and all expansions, chapters, ziost, iokath, umbara, copero etc, just like i'm doing currently with my Sith Sorcerer (came back to the game a month ago and decided to replay my favorite class). I went with Madness bc i enjoy spamming Force Lightning, but for the most part that's the only ability i use.

Therefore i dont want to feel so static in my next gameplay, that's why i chose those classes for a change of pace, and also bc i haven't seen their class stories yet, while i've played all the other stories several times over.

Still, i'm anxiously reading all answers, thanks for taking the time to write them, specially the opinions regarding class stories. Keep em coming.

Another point in scrapper scoundrel’s favor is that because you can stealth past a lot of trash fights (I’ve managed to get through entire planets’ class stories while dropping less than a dozen mobs) and often drop your foes with a punch (or dirty kick... which is way more satisfying than it probably should be) instead of a blaster bolt it’s really easy to pretend you’re just knocking most of those guys out like a more traditional action hero instead of a guy with a body count in the thousands by the time they finish their vanilla story. That alone makes it something of a refreshing change from a lot of the other classes (even its mirror the operative Imperial Agent who’s stabbing people with poisoned blades).

I think this is a really salient point about the scoundrel. Even though my smuggler is dark (light choices occasionally) I hardly ever kill people, it's kind of funny and an interesting way to play. I don't feel like a maniac, she's almost like a normal, kinda goofy, person. I think that's important to know if you're basing your choice of what to play on rp factors.

I did play a light side commando a long time ago. I don't remember much except that I disliked the overall story but liked the trooper herself. She was just tough and never gave up, which was pretty cool.

Gunslinger is what you want, not Scoundrel. 'Slinger is so much more fun.

Story-wise.

I disagree; I prefer Scoundrels over Gunslingers for one reason; stealth.

DeVanagloris if don't want to create/level both the Trooper and Smuggler at the same time (as altoholics like myself constantly do) I recommend Trooper first as it's in my opinion the better story line of the two.

You are very right about the Consular class story - it's a bit boring but necessary if you're a completionist and want the 8 class benefit & achievement for your legacy. The only interesting part of the consular story is Zenith.

I think this is a really salient point about the scoundrel. Even though my smuggler is dark (light choices occasionally) I hardly ever kill people, it's kind of funny and an interesting way to play. I don't feel like a maniac, she's almost like a normal, kinda goofy, person. I think that's important to know if you're basing your choice of what to play on rp factors.

Given that the Smuggler story is essentially a heist/caper/treasure hunt, I find the ability to get through huge chunks of it via sneaking around and mostly knocking out your opponents makes a huge difference in immersion, particularly if you’re playing mostly lightside. Unlike the Jedi going up against Sith or the Trooper where it’s a war story, it’s hard to justify a massive body count as lightside when your end goal is mainly just to get filthy rich.

I did play a light side commando a long time ago. I don't remember much except that I disliked the overall story but liked the trooper herself. She was just tough and never gave up, which was pretty cool.

The issue with the Trooper story is that it a rather cynical one the focuses on black-ops and highlights the morally compromised nature of the Republic.

The main antagonists of the first act have a legitimate beef with Republic leadership and your boss is ordering you to basically commit war crimes and lie to Senate oversight rather than let SpecForces look bad with ‘for the greater good’ as the justification. It’s basically the flip-side of the Imperial Agent story really.

The Trooper gets much more interesting in my opinion once you get to the expansions; Hutt Cartel, Revan, KotXX; where the merged storyline lets them be more of a straightforward hero if you choose to play them that way. The Jorgan chapter of KoFE is particularly strong in both conveying the original theme of the Trooper’s vanilla story and the fact that you’re now a legitimate counterpoint to that cynicism (also just the irony of Jorgan’s Havoc Squad defecting is fantastic given Act One of the Trooper story).

As to your concerns about not seeing how a smuggler/trooper could defeat a Force user such as Arcann, the canon answer is that whenever Valkorion possesses you, his presence grants you attunement to the Force. When he leaves you, I assume that goes away, but during KOTFE/TET, you basically have the Force, even if you’re a non-Jedi/Sith, so you don’t really have to make a headcanon answer.

I’m actually playing through KOTFE/TET with my Gunslinger right now, and the whole Force angle hasn’t been an issue. What has been a mild issue to me is the fact that everyone calls me their commander and that my laid back, overly casual femslinger sometimes barks out orders even though I didn’t choose that sort of answer response. I feel like the Commander fantasy actually only fits the Jedi Knight, Sith Warrior, Imperial Agent, nd the Republic Trooper, really. But don’t get me wrong, the smuggler has some great lines in these expansions, and she fits like a glove in the more shady chapters like Profit and Plunder, Anarchy in Paradise, and Asylum.

Anyway, both smuggler and trooper, uh, MINOR SPOILER ALERT... both of them kill Force users as part of their class stories, and the reason why is because one of them is a legendary gunslinger and the other is a particularly lethal and talented soldier.

I'm going to recommend Trooper over Smuggler, and Commando over Vanguard. Vanguard is a "melee" class (10m or less) while Trooper is a 30m ranged class.

 

I play Troopers and BH's almost exclusively, so I am biased - I think the Trooper story is faaaar better than the smugglers was. The Trooper is a soldier, given orders to follow, so being told where to go and who to check on makes sense to me...not so much with the Smuggler.

/bump... Commando has always been my fav!

Story wise: Smuggler, but only because of chapter one otherwise they're equally dull. Play style wise: Trooper, either spec is more fun to play than the smuggler's, imo.

Which goes to show how much playstyle comes down to taste. For example, I'd rank Scoundrel far and away above Vanguard (second choice) or Commando (third choice) while Gunslinger comes in dead last of the four.

I've already explained why I prefer Scoundrel and Vanguard over Commando and Gunslinger, but I figure why I rank Vanguard behind Scoundrel is in order.

The big killer for me on the Vanguard is that I'm not a fan of DoT specs and the tactics spec has an extremely annoying laugh (very out of place for the rather straight-laced trooper) that triggers about every six seconds when your high-impact bolt refresh procs and is absolutely immersion breaking for me.

That leaves me with the Tank spec that has neither a bunch of DoTs (which rarely live up to their potential in story mode) nor a constant very annoying laugh (I'd be one thing if it were a priority-based spec because the audio cue would then be useful... but its a rotation-based spec where all it does is add unneeded noise)... and it has a damage debuff.

You can mostly mitigate the damage nerf from the tank spec by going with a skank build (use DPS gear and sub accuracy for alacrity since if you can get your global cooldown to 1.4 seconds its basically a 7% damage buff) which makes it passable, but you still feel the lack of oomph during boss fights.

Scoundrel has none of these issues as its Scrapper spec is DPS burst and lacks the annoying laugh. I generally grab the utility that grants me an extra Upper Hand when you use Tendon Blast. Its sub-optimal for raiding, but for story reasons I'd rather tendon blast and use that extra UH to punch out a foe while running through the story than blast them for maximally efficient DPS (story mode just doesn't require that level of precision).

* * * * *

As to story, I think EVERY class story gets weaker after the first chapter. The first chapter is entirely about YOUR character, the second starts weaving you into the larger galactic conflict and the third is what you do in that conflict once it turns hot.

In other words, it gets less and less personal regardless of the class. Jedi Knight suffers least from this since its story is basically KOTOR 3 as you build up to fight the Emperor (or his Voice as it turns out... back in 1.0 that was far less clear) while every other Republic class ends up dealing with someone further down the food chain.

I'd give the edge in chapter one to the Smuggler... it's a very personal story dealing with the underworld that is so pervasive in the films. It also does a very good job integrating your core love interest companions into the first chapter, even if one of them isn't unlocked as a true companion until the very end of chapter one. It also has the advantage in that its companions are far more memorable.

Its primary weakness in chapters 2-3 are that the nature of the MMO required you to become more tied into the Republic as an actual allegiance so you stop being a true freelancer who seems to be plotting their own course and turn more into the Star Wars equivalent of Blackwater (i.e. a freelance military contractor). If you accept that the only way the endgame/later expansion content could work was for all the Pub classes to actually end up working for the Republic by the end of their stories, its not TOO bad, but as the class with the least overt ties to the Republic to start with, there's a bit of a square peg/round hole feel to the later chapters (they TRY... I'll give them that, but its basically the same problem the Bounty Hunter has on the Imp side). Its assisted by having fairly interesting additional companions and a generally lighter tone than the Trooper story.

The trooper by contrast has nothing quite so iconic to tie it to Star Wars, it could have just as easily been a war story set in just about any sci-fi universe. The core love interests are introduced extremely early, but are pretty much stock characters. The advantage it has is that its later chapters flow better since act two is basically filling out your squad with mission specialists for a new Op and the third is your squad going to war with a series of objectives to overcome. Unfortunately it also comes with the downside of the second most annoying companion in the game (Skadge being number one) whom you are required to use as a companion not once, but TWICE. I feel it also gets undercut by the repeated use of politics to undermine your achievements which leaves you with more Pyrrhic victories than the Smuggler gets.

Overall, I give the edge to the Smuggler simply because they come off as more of a lovable underdog whose victories get to be victories, even if they are smaller in scope than those of any of the other Republic classes in the vanilla story.

I really can't stand the Trooper story. Start to finish I found it dull, "for the Republic" military macho nonsense.

Boring characters, pointless politics... I could go on.

The Smuggler on the other hand I found great fun to play, though you pretty much have to go dark/neutral-dark if you want to get the "independent freelancer" feel to it.

The biggest thing I found is you have to be going into it looking for a fun, not particularly serious story that you are willing to suspend disbelief on once you get to KOTFE/KOTET. You have to do this on pretty much all of the non-force user classes (though I found Agent works pretty good), but Smuggler is particularly out of place.

I'm not a fan of the trooper story at all. But the smuggler story is my favorite Republic-side story to play. I find it's far more interesting (IMHO) and as others have mentioned, your character has a very wide berth to act as they wish. The smuggler has some truly funny lines, and a really nice ship, too.

In terms of companions, I also greatly prefer the smuggler's crew. Your mileage may vary with Corso (I don't like him, but a lot of people do), but the storylines involving Risha and Bowdaar in particular are great IMHO. I can't stand most of the trooper's companions.

I'm gonna play it exclusively solo, so i want to primarily have fun and also feel engaged by the story. Therefore i'll be playing a Vanguard or a Scoundrel, as i think those will provide a funnier and more immersive gameplay than the other ACs.

Class stories don't change based on AC so I'm not sure why you think those would be funnier to play. You're getting the exact same story if you play a Gunslinger or a Scoundrel.