At level 50, Civil War turns into a scramble to get two points first.. usually the two outer points, the reason being.. they are easy to defend because the route under the central point is fast due to the speed buffs and the travel time the enemy team needs to reach either side, more travel time = more time to setup a defense.

 

 

Now the problem.

 

Wiping out a defending team on one of these side points should without a doubt give the attackers the advantage, but the defending team can take speeder bikes to each side which 'spawn' them extremely close to the objective, making interupting any attackers fairly easy.. it is extremely hard to fully wipe a group of players holding one of these points at max level pvp, healers are extremely strong.. tanks can outlast many opponents and clever use of line of sight mechanics can all lead to giving reinforcements (who spawn very close) the time needed to stop a cap.

 

Hopefully that all makes sense to you guys, i'm sure you have all been in the same situation whether you are attacking or defending.

 

I think these 'side' speeder bikes should spawn players in at least 10/15 directly away from the objective from where they currently land, this would give the attacking team time to react properly to newly spawning defenders and it also means if the defending team gets fully wiped.. then they suffer the consequences, I believe with something simple changed to the warzone as this will lead to more dynamic matches.

 

 

Currently on my server (basalisk droid) people just leave the warzone if your team doesn't control two points after the initial skirmishes.. this is just not how the game should be played.

 

 

tl;dr

 

Move the speeder spawns for the side points further away from the objective, to punish the defending team for getting wiped out and giving attackers the time they deserve to cap

Fix your title to SWTOR has problems and just leave it at that.

Every game has problems, be constructive with your feedback or just don't post at all

Agreed.

 

There are definitely some huge wrinkles in PvP that need to be worked out. Those speeders shouldn't be there.

 

There are a lot of problems I have with PvP, but i still play. Mostly because I want my Battlemaster title, as well as my gear, but I still play nonetheless.

 

I'm going to get my title purely from Warzones, and god damnit, I am going to like it.

This is pretty standard for holding the objective based game modes. It puts the most importance on the initial fights. In a competitive setting between two premades the initial fight actually last a significant amount of the game.

 

It is still very possible to re take a point, you just need to use more than face smashing dps to get it. Use CC, have your healers trying to cap it during the fight, focus down key targets, etc.

I agree that it's definately possible to retake a point as it currently is, but the sheer amount of effort and coordination required on the attackers part compared to what newly spawning defenders need to do isn't even close

 

I feel much of the 'defending' should be reinforcing the side that is being attacked hardest in good time (calling out the side the enemy are on) and then beating the attackers straight up in that scenario.. the wierd game of cat and mouse that goes on now is too weighed in one sides favour, having to leave players on low health to kill them off at the same time (ensuring they don't rejoin the fight one at a time as you try to cap) or having to chain stun newly spawned people within moments of there arrival to ensure your cap...

 

I think if the attackers did enough work to wipe out the defenders, that point should go to them.. simple as

I tend to disagree. Certainly it is a challenge to capture it if the enemy team is determined to keep it and two players could successfully keep it against attacking 3+ for a while but here is where it comes to strategy. For example if I am on the defending side and happen to be protecting the turret in question I will keep respawning and jumping on people with Storm+Explosive Surge as long as I can. Meanwhile my team would already be aware that this turret is under strong attack and should consider either sending reinforcements or taking the opponent's turret instead - i.e. bishop for a knight.

 

Whether or not we will defend or attack depends on many factors - situation in the middle, enemy forces attacking, available allies in the vicinity (fast response team?) and number of protectors on the other side. This of course has to be decided at that very second and there is a risk of both losing the contested turret and not getting the hostile one.

 

This is precisely what is making Alderaan fun - unless you are playing against a complete waste of a team and just faceroll through the map it requires perfect coordination, fast response times and good communication in your own team. You should always notify your teammates of incoming hostiles and their numbers and someone else should scout the remaining hostiles at the other side. Decisions have to be made on the run and mistakes corrected ASAP.

 

If said transports did not exist the enemy team could dominate simply by class composition and/or firepower, but this way you can outsmart them. And vice versa, of course. Play smart and as a team and you have a chance to win even against an overwhelming opponent.

 

 

TL;DR: Quick speeders add an additional strategic layer to the warzone. Removing them will make it both less interesting and more dependent on enemy team's gear/composition.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Eager

I can sort of agree with your point. It seems strange that you can take out the defenders at a point and still not be able to take it.

 

I try to look at ACW with a bit different perspective: the idea is not to blow the enemy up, but to attack the weakly defended point. Then the respawn rate doesn't matter-they are alive, just in the wrong place to help.

 

I see this happen with well-coordinated teams, where rather than attack the same point until wiping out the defenders (as you point out, this is very difficult)-on your own respawn, you go where you were NOT fighting at last. This can create distraction on the defenders-you can find them afk, or overreponding. Once their main army is defending the wrong point, capping is easy.

 

Also, calling enemy troop movements through the tunnel between left and right can make this even easier.

Don't remove the speeders, but instead move the spawn far enough away from the cap point to allow reinforcements, but not ones that can immediately enter battle upon getting off the speeder.

Moving the drop-off point a little further away would help. But the first thing they need to do is fix the whole "I'm dotted and don't happen to have the proper cleanser around to fix it" thing from completely preventing you from capping.

 

Having a Sorc/Sage take the speeder 5 times and just spamming dots is currently an effective way to defend a node. That's one of the bigger problems, I think.

The solution to this (as i have said many times) is MORE NODES.

 

Look at arathi basin in wow. There are 5 nodes that split a team up and force them to move around. 3 nodes in civil war is a terrible design and only requires you to take 2 and camp them. The is typical mythic map making at its best.

The solution to this (as i have said many times) is MORE NODES.

 

Look at arathi basin in wow. There are 5 nodes that split a team up and force them to move around. 3 nodes in civil war is a terrible design and only requires you to take 2 and camp them. The is typical mythic map making at its best.

 

The only thing with adding more nodes, is you'd also have to increase the players required for the match. I have no problem with that, and Arathi Basin was by far my favorite map. But unfortunately, I think they'd rather do a quick fix than change the whole mechanic of a warzone.

This is pretty standard for holding the objective based game modes. It puts the most importance on the initial fights. In a competitive setting between two premades the initial fight actually last a significant amount of the game.

 

It is still very possible to re take a point, you just need to use more than face smashing dps to get it. Use CC, have your healers trying to cap it during the fight, focus down key targets, etc.

 

If you ever, ever, EVER lose an outside point, it is because your team is either too slow to call, or too slow to respond to a call. It is very possible to take a point, but only if the enemy is bad; your actions have nothing to do with it, much as you'd like to think otherwise.

 

Think of it this way: Both teams are fighting for the same point, with the same number of players. One team has a return-to-combat time of 9 seconds. The other has a return-to-combat time of 20-25 seconds. The time to cap the point is 8 seconds.

 

Assuming an inc is called when the player first starts approaching the point, there is absolutely no way the point should be taken, unless the attackers consist of 3-4 stealthers, in which case they are terrible for going down 2-1 in the first place.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Delekii

Some good points made, thanks for posting people

 

I disagree that more nodes are needed, the map layout is actually quite good.. and the number of players/size of the area feels right

 

Hopefully bioware have some plans for civil war, be they changes like some of us have suggested here or something else entirely.. i'm just tired of seeing 50% of my own team or the enemy team leave the warzone depending on who grabs two points first

I think a good way to balance this would be to change the way turrets are captured.

 

If a team has two more players than the other team around the turret (or the other team has no player around), then the turret slowly becomes neutral and eventually get captured.

Civil war is (in theory) a volatile map:

 

A team with a strategic advantage (more flags) has a tactical disadvantage (more flags to defend, whilst your opponent can focus on attacking a single point).

 

-> the game naturally pulls itself into balance - the 2 teams will naturally fight a close battle...

 

The side speeder routes and the 2 attack buffs inside the central flag area are both detrimental to this mechanic .

 

IMHO force speed on this map is also 'difficult' from a balance perspective.

You should try very hard at the beginning of the battle to ensure that the enemy does not capture both outside points. As long as they remain uncapped, they don't get the dedicated speeders.

Firstly, if your teams are giving up when two turrets get captured then frankly they need to grow a pair and learn how to fight. While I've been in games where the turrets have been captured and held successfully (even a 600-0 win against a good premade last night!) I've also seen plenty of turret swapping. Heck, I've come back from holding 0 turrets to winning before (twice, in fact.)

 

Secondly, DOTs stopping caps are one of the few things that make Dirty Fighting halfway viable for Scoundrels. Yes, it can be a pain if you can't cleanse but... so what? A good team will always have 3-4+ guys at the turret they are attacking, one of whom should be a healer and one of whom should be able to CC me the moment my feet hit the floor (certainly before I can get LOS to dot everyone - you are standing behind the turret relative to the speeder, right?)

 

Thirdly, despite that moving the speeder location 10m or so wouldn't be the end of the world and may make the map a little more dynamic. The map doesn't need radical changes. It's by far the most balanced (in terms of different classes all having roles and being able to make comebacks) of the three WZs and even when I lose I normally enjoyed it, unlike Huttball facestomps (in either direction they suck.)

Your topic is not covering the fundamentals of the game. Say I'm an imperial player and the pubs take mid/west I would try and instruct attackers to take west and after about 45 seconds you can tell ressers to go mid since you know they probably left 2 people there and the rest of your attacking team probably 3 left on west and 3 on mid you are either gonna win somewhere due to inbalance of players attacking/defending each base. Plus look how long it takes to go from 1 side to the mid, 20 seconds? 25? Either way you should be able to kill a few people before they get there. An attacking team should never have main forces at 1 base for to long