Jump to content

Non-geared players in Gree Event


Recommended Posts

I have noticed this week the posts seen in General chat, as well as in Unity Examination SM ops chat, people getting kicked out of the Ops group simply because they were led to believe they weren't geared enough to play in that ops group. What the hell is wrong with this community that people that A> don't play this game as much as some of these "Holier than thou" geared more experience players do. B> Have War Hero or higher end gear that allot of people have. I think it's pretty unfair for lesser players that don't have the great gear be singled out and kicked from an Ops group. It's mean an cruel to those that pay and enjoy the game in general that is just trying to finish a mission they were given and have to deal with *******es that think they can just kick people out of a group because they aren't as "Geared" as the big players are, JUST SAYIN! Some people aren't in Guilds and aren't on as much as most, and it's just not right to see this kind of Nazi crap going on in this game!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think it's pretty unfair for lesser players that don't have the great gear be singled out and kicked from an Ops group.

 

It's not "unfair" if they're doing it for an explicit reason, which "gear" is entirely appropriate to call someone out on. If you're trying to do content without sufficient gear, you're functionally asking that the people that *do* have better gear make up your own inadequacies. Just because you pay your $15/month (or threw a few dollars at the devs by buying some stuff from the cartel market) does not mean that you're instantly deserving of running with people doing a relevant piece of content, especially since the success of said content is based upon collective effort such that, if you're not doing enough, someone else has to make up for it. It's entirely appropriate within the purview of a group leader to deny someone a spot because they don't have good enough gear. It's not "Nazi crap", as you so eloquently put it; it's only bringing people that can actually carry their own weight.

 

Of course, to be described as being undergeared for SM Xeno, you pretty much have to be in unoptimized leveling gear, which is, honestly, laughably inexcusable, considering all of the free gear you get. If you're being denied a spot in an Hm group because of your gear, it's more appropriate because that requires at least full Columi to not get carried.

 

It also depends on what role you want to play: DPS can get along with marginally worse gear and sometimes healers, but tanks are almost never admitted if they're undergeared. If you're a tank, there are explicit times when you have to be able to take a certain amount of damage within a short period of time and no amount of healing is going to keep you alive. As such, if you're undergeared, chances are you're not getting admitted if the group leader knows what s/he's doing.

 

Even more so, there stands a pretty good chance that, if you're undergeared, you likely don't know the fight, and a lot of people just don't have the interest or patience to teach someone a piece of content (especially since, if you're undergeared, chances are better that you don't actually know how to play your class effectively and you'll need to be taught both your class *and* the fight/s in question to actually carry your weight).

 

Your entire argument is predicated upon you insisting to other people that you are entitled to run with a group doing a piece of content regardless of your actual ability to perform. That's not true. The only thing you're entitled to is playing your own character in whatever fashion you choose that doesn't break the EULA and Code of Conduct. Anything more than that is based upon the vagaries of the social contract, much of which, in operations, is predicated upon things such as gear, knowledge, skill, and personality in order to "deserve" a spot. If you don't like the fact that other players seem to exclude you, it's your own responsibility to address those relevant weaknesses rather than simply complaining that you're entitled to something that you're not getting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This isn't about me but someone I know that doesn't play as much as most, and is a DPS Marauder wearing Tionese gear with a few pieces augmented. And was a 16man SM op. This is just a Rant to for the little people out there that aren't geared as what some other people are.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I blame it on the increased repair cost. People don't want to spend 10k each time they wipe.

 

Even before 1.7 a lot of people (myself included) had started pugging less and less. The issue for me is that I get used to the high quality performance from my guildies and like going into a fight where everyone has spent time watching the strategy vid and are all minimaxed up the wazoo. You get used to everyone being able to do HM TFB half asleep and then you expect non-progression content to be a speedrun. If your guild 12 manned HM Xenoanalyst II with no wipes, you'd be pretty annoyed after 3 wipes with a pug group on SM story wouldn't you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This isn't about me but someone I know that doesn't play as much as most, and is a DPS Marauder wearing Tionese gear with a few pieces augmented. And was a 16man SM op. This is just a Rant to for the little people out there that aren't geared as what some other people are.

 

Content in the game is designed specifically for different gear levels - and there's a transition from one level to the other. Becoming a fresh 50, taking your free gear and then winging because you don't have the time or inclination to improve your gear but still want to do harder content is just silly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I'm inclined to carry someone for story mode content if there's a decent geared player or 2 to help carry.

 

It would be a shame for someone not to be able to get a legacy weapon because they can't find a group for an easy story mode boss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have noticed this week the posts seen in General chat, as well as in Unity Examination SM ops chat, people getting kicked out of the Ops group simply because they were led to believe they weren't geared enough to play in that ops group. What the hell is wrong with this community that people that A> don't play this game as much as some of these "Holier than thou" geared more experience players do. B> Have War Hero or higher end gear that allot of people have. I think it's pretty unfair for lesser players that don't have the great gear be singled out and kicked from an Ops group. It's mean an cruel to those that pay and enjoy the game in general that is just trying to finish a mission they were given and have to deal with *******es that think they can just kick people out of a group because they aren't as "Geared" as the big players are, JUST SAYIN! Some people aren't in Guilds and aren't on as much as most, and it's just not right to see this kind of Nazi crap going on in this game!!

 

I bet if I showed up for a NASCAR race with my minivan they would NOT let me race (and probably have a good laugh at my expense)...why? Because I don't have the proper equipment. Just because some one is 50 and CAN get a mission does not mean they are yet capable of completing it. The fact is that players that have put in a lot of time and gone through the gear grind don't want to waste their precious time on under geared players who will likely be a burden and cause wipes. If you are a casual player, that's fine, it's your choice. But having invested LESS time in the game why would you think that you are entitled to the same content and rewards that others have spent a lot of time working up to. The problem that "casual players" need to understand is that once you turn 50 there is no longer "leveling up" but rather a "gear progression". While I admit that SWTOR has not made it very clear as to what gear is expected for what content nonetheless it is very important, especially to players who have been around a while. Calling people who do gear checks for raids "elitist" is simply unfair. They are simply experienced and are trying to be efficient with their and the group's time. I would even suggest that people who are under geared who think they are "entitled" to skip steps and run content beyond their gear are the "elitist" ones. Just because it is new content does not mean everyone can complete it and everyone get the same reward. Also just because it's a SM ops doesnt mean any 50 in any gear can run it.

Now,If you excuse me, I need to finish puting sponsor decals on my minivan, the Daytona 500 is comming up and I think it would be fun to race in that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's pretty unfair for lesser players that don't have the great gear be singled out and kicked from an Ops group.

 

Instead of crying here, go and form your own group and then you can invite all the people still wearing greens with the wrong main stat that were meant for someone 20 levels lower that you like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This isn't about me but someone I know that doesn't play as much as most, and is a DPS Marauder wearing Tionese gear with a few pieces augmented. And was a 16man SM op. This is just a Rant to for the little people out there that aren't geared as what some other people are.

 

If true (and assuming earpiece/implant/relic slots were Recruit), your "friend" was kicked unfairly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What the hell is wrong with this community that people that A> don't play this game as much as some of these "Holier than thou" geared more experience players do. B> Have War Hero or higher end gear that allot of people have. I think it's pretty unfair for lesser players that don't have the great gear be singled out and kicked from an Ops group. It's mean an cruel to those that pay and enjoy the game in general that is just trying to finish a mission they were given and have to deal with *******es that think they can just kick people out of a group because they aren't as "Geared" as the big players are, JUST SAYIN! Some people aren't in Guilds and aren't on as much as most, and it's just not right to see this kind of Nazi crap going on in this game!!

 

So just to let you know where I am coming from... I am one of those players who "A> don't play this game as much as some of these "Holier than thou" geared more experience players do." I am not in a guild who has raided yet (even though a few of us do pick up a raid here and there) and currently, my gear is a mix of Dreadguard (the 2 relics from the Daily vendors) Rakata Implants, Black hole Ear peice, and the rest is custom with Campaign armorings and black hole mods/enchancements.

 

How did I get that kind of gear? By putting in the time and effort by doing constant dailys, and the occasional pugging of raids if I have time from working 15 hours Mon-Friday (I leave the house at 4:30am and get home at 8pm) just to head off to bed at 9:30pm to do it all over again the next day...

 

If I am able to pull off getting that type of gear, I'm sure those players who you stated that don't play the game as much as some can also but it takes time. Do not expect to start raiding soon after you hit 50. Do the ops team you are thinking about joining a favor and gear yourself up in a MINIMUM of Columi gear. It takes about a week of running HM FP's to get there with picking up the weeklies and dailys from the fleet terminal and the occasional lucky hit of a columi drop from the end boss. I would pretty much say that SM Xeno II is about the equivalent to SM EC gear wise.

 

Instead of crying here, go and form your own group and then you can invite all the people still wearing greens with the wrong main stat that were meant for someone 20 levels lower that you like.

This pretty much sums it up 100%. If you think you are more than willing to try these raids with players with fresh 50 gear and players still wearing blue's and greens, so be it and let me know how that works out for you.

Edited by haliy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For Xeno II SM the gear you recieve, when you hit 50 is good enough by far and for HC it should suffice as well.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

Please take a full tionese geared player on 8m HM xeno and tell me how that turns out. Even in SM tionese is under geared. Coloumi or better (with some augments) would be more appropriate for SM. In tionese you are going to have to be carried by Rakata/BH/DG geared players so if you show up in tionese don't be surprised if you get the boot. I'm not saying it can't be completed with A tionese geared player, but they are certainly not going to pull their full weight and their gear will have to be offset by better geared players in the group. For xeno, you have to have appropriate DPS on the cores, tanks have to be able to weather big hits, and healers need appropriate Healing output. I really don't see tionese gear being up to the task in any of these roles with out significant compensation from another player. Which is why people in lower gear are etting the boot.

 

I highly doubt a full ops group of ALL tionese geared players could complete SM Xeno. Feel free to prove me wrong. Is it likely that a whole group of tionese geared players show up for the same raid, NO. But the point remains that tionese geared players are showing up for ops banking on chance that there will be better geared players to carry them through, and then when they get removed from the ops because of it they cry foul.

 

If you are in tionese gear and want to do ops beyond your gear then I suggest you ask your guild to help, don't rely on PUGs to be sympathetic. If the PUG is willing to accomadate you, awesome! I have been in many groups that have carried under geared players. But please don't think that it is "unfair" if a group declines you because of a gear issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It really depends on the group, and the content, and the level of skill of the new player. Maybe in a full out pug group where nobody is really sure of one anothers' skill it would make sense to be hesitant about taking someone who is clearly under geared. A more confidant, over geared, guild group, filling a few spots might be more willing to give it a go. I can understand not wanting to take someone in 40 greens or whatever (recruit+ tionese is free and as far as I know the recruit gear can be equipped by f2p players playing with artifact equipment restrictions), but someone in their tionese gear at Lear knows where to start, and could potentially be a fresh alt of a really good player.

 

I mean I've been (and on some stuff still am) pulled through content that I wouldn't have had the chance to experience otherwise, and now that I have better gear and a stronger understanding of the fights I don't mind returning the favor and doing the pulling. I think that it's at least partially helpful to the community, and increases the pool of players who will be able to activley complete content later on (but only of there is some teaching involved at the same time). That said I can sympathize with the people who don't appreciate the expectation that they have to do just that. It is group content and its not really fair to hinder the other people by expecting them to pull you if you're not at least trying your best.

Edited by Fiamma_Verde
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How did I get that kind of gear? By putting in the time and effort by doing constant dailys, and the occasional pugging of raids if I have time from working 15 hours Mon-Friday (I leave the house at 4:30am and get home at 8pm) just to head off to bed at 9:30pm to do it all over again the next day...

 

/Applause!

You're one of the rare ones that actually WORK for what they have instead of crying about it and wanting it handed to them.

Most people on the forums complain that they can't get high level gear because they aren't able to play as much.

Anyone can obtain full Dread Guard mods,armorings,hilts and enhancements,earpieces, and implants without doing a single raid.

It just takes time and effort.

I'm full 63 geared (minus ear and implants) and have yet to get a drop for my class from HM TFB yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I respectfully disagree.

 

Please take a full tionese geared player on 8m HM xeno and tell me how that turns out. Even in SM tionese is under geared. Coloumi or better (with some augments) would be more appropriate for SM.

 

16m SM has an enrage-timer of 10 minutes.

We were 15, some not even Rakata-geared and one or two people that don't know the difference between a lightsaber and a bottle of ketchup.

 

The boss was dead in less than 4 minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never understood the complaint of the undergeared player who is annoyed at not being taken to an operation.

 

When I was a fresh level 50, (right about the time 1.2 dropped) I never wanted to be the "picked last guy". So I read guides on the forum to get better at my class, learned typical raid pitfalls like breaking CC and wrong kill order, ran parses on my dps to get better, did plenty of dailies to get level 50 purples, and ran SM versions of Flashpoints to get better at mechanics.

 

This was a personal thing. I wanted to be sure that I was an asset rather than a liability.

 

So it really makes my teeth itch when I see the OP calling experienced players "Nazis" for kicking them from a pug.

 

Why not have some personal pride in your contribution to the group instead?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never understood the complaint of the undergeared player who is annoyed at not being taken to an operation.

 

When I was a fresh level 50, (right about the time 1.2 dropped) I never wanted to be the "picked last guy". So I read guides on the forum to get better at my class, learned typical raid pitfalls like breaking CC and wrong kill order, ran parses on my dps to get better, did plenty of dailies to get level 50 purples, and ran SM versions of Flashpoints to get better at mechanics.

 

This was a personal thing. I wanted to be sure that I was an asset rather than a liability.

 

So it really makes my teeth itch when I see the OP calling experienced players "Nazis" for kicking them from a pug.

 

Why not have some personal pride in your contribution to the group instead?

 

I think WoW's LFR has something to do with it. In WoW the LFR gear checked people, so anyone who was overly reliant on that never really learned what they needed gear wise, the LFR just told them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think WoW's LFR has something to do with it. In WoW the LFR gear checked people, so anyone who was overly reliant on that never really learned what they needed gear wise, the LFR just told them.

True, but even before I had great gear, rather than complaining about not being brought into an operation, I spent that time getting better at my class.

 

It's a viewpoint thing. "I'm not being picked for an operation, I need to get better" as opposed to "I'm not being picked for an operation, those guys are a bunch of Nazis"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Xeno HM can be pretty tough. There is a tier level of gear that you need to be able to beat it. It's up to the leader of the ops to set that level. If they ask for people in minimum BH gear and you join in WH thinking it's the same then you deserve to be kicked for misrepresenting yourself. The actual mechanics of Xeno are insanely easy compared to some op bosses. It really is a NEED 'X' minimum gear kind of fight. If you don't think so then you haven't fought him on HM. You're type of thinking is why all kids get participation trophies instead of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places. You have to earn the right to group for bigger things. People just can't spoon feed you rewards because they have more time to play than you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16m SM has an enrage-timer of 10 minutes.

We were 15, some not even Rakata-geared and one or two people that don't know the difference between a lightsaber and a bottle of ketchup.

 

The boss was dead in less than 4 minutes.

 

You might want to actually READ the post before you quote and comment. You entirely missed the point of what I was saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...