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Gear Drop in the two new Operations 2.4


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Has it been explicitly said that 2.4 will launch with a new tier of gear? All I know is that they said that a new tier of gear would accompany the new operations. To me, it is reasonable that NiM would drop the new tier given past experience. If HM dropped the new tier then it would have to require KD to complete. That just doesn't seem in-line with what we've seen from BW in the past (i.e. HM isn't necessarily accessible to the casual raider, but it is accessible to the casual guild).

 

I just don't see them limiting HM to the very elite guilds that have their raid members decked out in full KD already. To me it seems much more reasonable that SM would require 69s and drop 72s, HM will require 72s and drop 75's, and then NiM (somewhere down the road) requires 75s and drops the new tier. Of course this is all speculation, as we don't know what BW will actually do and I haven't even been on the PTS. It just seems this has been the method they've used in the past.

 

Making the new OPs SM require (72) and drop (75), and HM's require (75) and drops (new high level gear) is not unreasonable at all. This just forces people to progress as follows: Ding 55, FP's, SM TFB/SV, HM TFB/SV, then either NiM TFB/SV or New OPs SM, New OPs HM.

 

That seems very reasonable to me. Yes only the most geared teams will be able to compete in the new HM's quickly, but it forces a reasonable progression. Otherwise I could take a fresh 55 and have them running the new Operations on HM in 3 weeks.

 

IF for some reason the new HM's only require (72) gear then the new operations are not a progression based addition to the game. They would stand much more as equals to TFB and SV instead of ahead of them in a linear content POV. I fully expect the new SM's to require (72) gear. I hope, I hope, I hope.

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Making the new OPs SM require (72) and drop (75), and HM's require (75) and drops (new high level gear) is not unreasonable at all. This just forces people to progress as follows: Ding 55, FP's, SM TFB/SV, HM TFB/SV, then either NiM TFB/SV or New OPs SM, New OPs HM.

 

That seems very reasonable to me. Yes only the most geared teams will be able to compete in the new HM's quickly, but it forces a reasonable progression. Otherwise I could take a fresh 55 and have them running the new Operations on HM in 3 weeks.

 

IF for some reason the new HM's only require (72) gear then the new operations are not a progression based addition to the game. They would stand much more as equals to TFB and SV instead of ahead of them in a linear content POV. I fully expect the new SM's to require (72) gear. I hope, I hope, I hope.

 

Oh I'm not saying I personally don't think its reasonable to require 72s for SM if we're talking progression. BUT the general attitude with BW so far seems to be that they want casual players to be able to access SM (hence STORY mode). A casual player has a difficult time getting 72s. And if they didn't require 72s for SM I just couldn't see them jumping to requiring 75s for HM. Again, this isn't something I'm advocating, just something I think likely from their past releases.

 

I do like the idea a poster above had about one op being significantly harder than the other and requiring a higher level of gear. Meaning Dread Fortress requires only 69s for SM and drops 72s while HM requires 72s and drops 75s. BUT then Dread Palace SM requires 72s etc. In my mind, that would require higher gear to even access SM but would still be in-line with BW's policy of casual players being able to access SM of all ops. As much as raiders (I include myself in this group) want harder content, I just don't see BW restricting SM to a high degree, thats all.

 

EDIT: Though I do realize if only Dread Palace HM dropped the new tier, then we wouldn't have a complete set. So basically, I don't think there's any way to predict the new gear requirements. We'll just have to wait and see whats released :)

Edited by XCRunnerohtim
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After reading the gear needed for the new operation, no offense unless they don't release it on the PTR then the progression of it is truly flawed cause any Hard Core guild has already geared their progression team FAR past whats need and can muscle their way through. So the progression will no kidding kinda suck cause it will be a matter of hours which honestly am sure most guilds will agree won't prove a thing and the world and us first will go to the team that goes in when the servers go up., and leaves us waiting till at least December to see a Nightmare mode. Forgive me for the lack of enthusiasm, nothing like killing the little competition the game supports
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I dont know if anyone had mentioned this is far but for the weekly, SM requires 156, HM requires 168. Thus I think it would be safe to assume that no new gear til NiM of these ops.

 

I agree, New look maybe new set bonus thats about it unless it drops a half tier of gear aka 75-77 instead of 78.

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After reading the gear needed for the new operation, no offense unless they don't release it on the PTR then the progression of it is truly flawed cause any Hard Core guild has already geared their progression team FAR past whats need and can muscle their way through. So the progression will no kidding kinda suck cause it will be a matter of hours which honestly am sure most guilds will agree won't prove a thing and the world and us first will go to the team that goes in when the servers go up., and leaves us waiting till at least December to see a Nightmare mode. Forgive me for the lack of enthusiasm, nothing like killing the little competition the game supports

 

Going to be so lame for those of us in almost min/maxed 75 gear if it is this way. Waiting 4-5 month for NM might be a killer for some and only other thing to do is gear alts to 75.

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I'm assuming then that HM requires 75's to complete

 

Advised gear level (on the weekly quest) says 72.

 

Which makes sense, since HM should be 'doable' even for people/guilds that didn't manage to complete (or only partly) the recent NiM operations... otherwise the target audience for HM operations would get rather small.

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While DPS and other requirements were probably hard to tell because most of the group I was running with were in 75's (bar myself obviously), I didn't feel it to be more punishing to have less gear than the others. The only time we hit an enrage was on first attempt of the third boss due to not knowing the magnet mechanic and being a bit all over the place between the adds and boss. Any other wipes were purely down to mechanics (i.e not knowing about zero's lazer).

 

Maybe I might change my opinion when I play with a more balanced group for the gear requirement but I believe someone in augmented arkanian or unoptimized stock verpine could hold their weight in this op easily. I would put the gear difficulty more akin to golden fury HM rather than a step up from current NiM ops.

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what annoys me is after almost two years into the game bioware has not figured out how they want gear progression to work. it seems like with every new ops they are just winging it and making up their progression plans as they go. evidence why so many people are confused about the gear tiers and have no clue how gear progression is going to work through the next ops, not to mention future ops. it seems that a plan should have been in place along time ago and we should know the drop ratings and tier progression before the ops even come out. but we are all clueless because they haven't had any consistent progression since launch. seems sloppy :D
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I dont know if anyone had mentioned this is far but for the weekly, SM requires 156, HM requires 168. Thus I think it would be safe to assume that no new gear til NiM of these ops.

 

I agree, New look maybe new set bonus thats about it unless it drops a half tier of gear aka 75-77 instead of 78.

 

except dulfy has confirmed that the new gear coming with 2.4 is actually better than the Kell Dragon gear

 

Sounds like SM is set to 156 and HM will be set to 168 but HM will drop better gear than Kell Dragon

Edited by MisterBlackJack
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I know it won't happen so not trying to complain but would be nice if NiM (75) for the previous tier was just slightly better than HM of the next tier (74 for instance). That gives an incentive to do NiM but also work on the HM since it will help prep you for NiM of the next tier. Or maybe make BIS relics, implants, ear drop from HM new tier, while BIS mods drop from NiM. That's probably too complicated, but at least would encourage running of both.

 

We're enjoying the challenge of beating NiM and it's awesome to get gear for a head start on the new Ops, but once we hopefully get our titles and the new ops releases why would we ever go back to NiM?

 

Regardless on the positive side I have had a lot of fun overcoming the challenge of NiM and am also looking forward to two new brand new raids to learn.

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Hard mode drops 78 gear and is seemingly tuned for 75 geared players.

Set bonus 78 gear is called "Dread Forged" and non set bonus is named "Oriconian".

It is similar to when Asation/TFB came out. Story mode is easier and is meant for players who have gone along with the story mode gear order, and hard mode is for top-gear. Nightmare will be far off then.

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From my first SM-run on Dread Fortress, I can confirm that SM drops both 69 and 72-level Gear.

 

The Loot-table, as we encountered it:

 

  1. Nefra, who bars the way
    • Arkanian Token (Bracers)
    • random Black-Market Item (Bracers)

[*]Gate Commander Draxus

  • Arkanian Token (Boots)
  • random Black-Market Item (Boots)

[*]Grob'thok, who feeds the forge

  • Arkanian Token (Head)
  • random Black-Market Item (Ear)

[*]Corruptor Zero

  • Underworld Token (Head)
  • Arkanian Token (Offhand)
  • random Verpine Item (Ear)

[*]Dreadmaster Brontes

  • Underworld Token (Hand)
  • Arkanian Token (Chest)
  • random Verpine Item (Hand)

 

See screenshots here.

 

Btw, there are two new legacy-titles to be earned on Oricon:

PvE: "Master of Dread" (complete story and daylies at least once)

PvP: "Judged Dread" (I don't remember the requirements)

Edited by Tito_O
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Hard mode drops 78 gear and is seemingly tuned for 75 geared players.

Set bonus 78 gear is called "Dread Forged" and non set bonus is named "Oriconian".

It is similar to when Asation/TFB came out. Story mode is easier and is meant for players who have gone along with the story mode gear order, and hard mode is for top-gear. Nightmare will be far off then.

 

that makes no sense top end guilds should be doing NIM ops not HM

 

teams able to do NIM content just got their new content and gear [and exclusive titles and exclusive mounts and exclusive secret bosses... yeah I'm bitter at how much they get pandered too being less then 1%] a couple months back and most haven't cleared that. for teams clearing / farming HM still there hasn't been new content since 2.0

 

I feel if your team is in full 75's you should be getting your challenge from NIM TFB / SNV until NIM DF / DP comes out and then chase a new tier of NIM gear, teams in full 75's should not be looking to the HM of the new ops for their top end challenges and teams farming HM TFB / SNV should not be gated from HM DF / DP by gear because they can not clear NIM to get full 75's and be forced to farm SM DF / DP for 69's when they are already in full 72's and the same for SM DF / DP should not be gated by 72 gear for SM guilds that are in mainly 69's still :rak_02:

 

this whole ops progression just seems very unusual, im afraid that come 2.4 average guilds are going to be extremely bored with the new SM ops and the top end guilds are going to be extremely disappointed with the HM, then there will be no one happy left in the game :D

Edited by Vis-Tecum
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Honestly the ops felt tuned for 72's on HM not 75's. As a tank in about 70% 75's I felt over-geared for it, surprised we are getting 78's in this op as it seems like unnecessary. I was expecting 75's but in new shells to better control power creep. Although I guess that in tuning it for 72's or possibly lower and then having it drop 78's it makes it accessible for all and have a relevance to NiM raiders
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Agreed. HM's should be tuned for the gear that drops in the last HM operations... According to the weekly quest it is exactly like that. Advised gear level is 168 (72).

 

hmm, in that perspective yes, but think about it. NIM Scum and Villainy isn't that old and BW probably doesn't want players thinking they can jus skip NIM and move on to the next operation and get KD gear so easily. So yea if I have to do NIM SnV before I do the two new operations on HM. fine by me. Plus it separates the players who actually work their asses off doing nightmare and getting the KD gear and those who jus wait for the gear to be obtained(Like people did when they put BH and DG gear in EV, KP, and EC).

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hmm, in that perspective yes, but think about it. NIM Scum and Villainy isn't that old and BW probably doesn't want players thinking they can jus skip NIM and move on to the next operation and get KD gear so easily. So yea if I have to do NIM SnV before I do the two new operations on HM. fine by me. Plus it separates the players who actually work their asses off doing nightmare and getting the KD gear and those who jus wait for the gear to be obtained(Like people did when they put BH and DG gear in EV, KP, and EC).

 

That's also a good point.

 

However, I think if they tuned the new HM ops for 75 gear, that target audience would just be to small.

There's plenty of people/guilds that have no problems at all clearing the current HM operations, but are still struggling with the NiM operations. Tuning for 75 would mean that they would be stuck at the sm versions, which is no challenge at all.

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That's also a good point.

 

However, I think if they tuned the new HM ops for 75 gear, that target audience would just be to small.

There's plenty of people/guilds that have no problems at all clearing the current HM operations, but are still struggling with the NiM operations. Tuning for 75 would mean that they would be stuck at the sm versions, which is no challenge at all.

 

not to mention then what is the point of NIM ops if NIM teams are supposed to be getting the highest challenge and gear from HM. is NIM then just to reuse content?

 

bioware Austin really needs to be more clear about their plans for progression, right now the lack of consistency makes me concerned that they have no long term plans or structure for ops progression.

Edited by Vis-Tecum
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not to mention then what is the point of NIM ops if NIM teams are supposed to be getting the highest challenge and gear from HM. is NIM then just to reuse content?

 

bioware Austin really needs to be more clear about their plans for progression, right now the lack of consistency makes me concerned that they have no long term plans or structure for ops progression.

 

Yeah, currently it seems like they're just improvising things without a real plan...

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Honestly the ops felt tuned for 72's on HM not 75's. As a tank in about 70% 75's I felt over-geared for it, surprised we are getting 78's in this op as it seems like unnecessary. I was expecting 75's but in new shells to better control power creep. Although I guess that in tuning it for 72's or possibly lower and then having it drop 78's it makes it accessible for all and have a relevance to NiM raiders

 

my concern for that is when SNV was on pts it was very easy compared to when it went live the same for the NIM versions, on pts everybody was saying they were too easy and not NIM worthy, that turned out not to be the case when they went live, same with the HM czerka FP's. it seems that the pts is tuned down for testing and gets buffed when it goes live. but that is basically a wait and see opinion

 

right now on pts most groups are requiring you to be in some 75's to join and still not clearing the op. like I said if it turns out to be more on the 75 gear side and is to difficult for teams in 72's farming HM that cant clear NIM and too easy for NIM teams in full 75's earning 78's to make it even easier then no one is going to be happy and raiders seem to be the only ones currently in the game that are somewhat happy

 

also if HM is dropping 78's is that going to mean that 75 level mod schematics will now be learnable, that not only throw's a wrench in to the gear progression but also hands NIM teams a huge exclusive credit faucet

Edited by Vis-Tecum
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Honestly the ops felt tuned for 72's on HM not 75's.

 

This.

 

4/5'd HM the other day with one tank in 69's, me in 72's and the other pug dps was probably not in 75's either. While the other 5 in the group were mostly in 75's I feel this op is more balanced towards verpine/augmented arkanian, you probably don't even need min/maxed underworld to pull it off.

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