I unlocked one of the new non-moddable mainhand weapons on my Armstech.

A few notes:

1. Chance to RE from blue -> purple is 100%

2. Gear rating is 216, which is the same as SM operations gear.

3. It requires one Strategic Resource Matrix mat (personal conquest reward)

Since SM ops are bolstered, this gear would mostly be of value for people running HM FPs. Still not sure what kind of market there's going to be.

I guess we'll see next week after conquests are done, and the price of SRMs.

---------

Oh, I also learned one of the new Augments. The 60% chance to learn on RE was nice. I do find the intermediary crafting step (Farium Armor Assembly Component) rather annoying, however.

Basically, I have enough mats, and enough crafters, to queue up 30 augments and then switch to an alt and go play the game (which is what I used to do). However, I instead have to craft 60 of the components, in two batches, making sure to switch back to the crafter after each batch, THEN craft the augments.

It's not a super big deal or anything. I'll adjust to it, but it this surely isn't for the stated purpose of "making crafting easier". It seems more likely that the purpose was to slow down the rate of crafting of actual final products, but that isn't something they would come right out and say.

/shrug

I unlocked one of the new non-moddable mainhand weapons on my Armstech.

 

A few notes:

 

1. Chance to RE from blue -> purple is 100%

2. Gear rating is 216, which is the same as SM operations gear.

3. It requires one Strategic Resource Matrix mat (personal conquest reward)

 

Since SM ops are bolstered, this gear would mostly be of value for people running HM FPs. Still not sure what kind of market there's going to be.

 

I guess we'll see next week after conquests are done, and the price of SRMs.

 

---------

 

Oh, I also learned one of the new Augments. The 60% chance to learn on RE was nice. I do find the intermediary crafting step (Farium Armor Assembly Component) rather annoying, however.

 

Basically, I have enough mats, and enough crafters, to queue up 30 augments and then switch to an alt and go play the game (which is what I used to do). However, I instead have to craft 60 of the components, in two batches, making sure to switch back to the crafter after each batch, THEN craft the augments.

 

It's not a super big deal or anything. I'll adjust to it, but it this surely isn't for the stated purpose of "making crafting easier". It seems more likely that the purpose was to slow down the rate of crafting of actual final products, but that isn't something they would come right out and say.

 

/shrug

What rating are SM ops dropping? This being the gear one would assume as being entry level to HM.

Also I thought it said you could RE that SM item into a HM item so have you not yet got the final product due to not having the mats?

As for the crafting steps ... exactly as predicted and with some schems now needing 4 crew skills ... wow that's crappy. No more purely self sufficient toons now.

It will mean more mats sold on the GTN though most likely thus higher prices so more people out in the field gathering also and more people doing dailies/heroics etc. to buy them all.

Curious also from your obvious critiquing of the game so far ... how OP is slicing? I've only got the db to work off until I get home but from what I'm hearing the DB ir correct and slicing is hugely OP now with the schem usage?

What rating are SM ops dropping? This being the gear one would assume as being entry level to HM.

SM ops drops 216

HM ops drops 220

"High value target" ops drops 224.

I believe that's where one of the ops is boosted to NM or something? Not 100% sure.

Also I thought it said you could RE that SM item into a HM item so have you not yet got the final product due to not having the mats?

You get the blue item at the vendor -- that's rating 208. I RE'ed it to purple (rating 216).

I'm 99% sure that it cannot be RE'ed again, based on torcommunity only listing two types of Defiant gear (MK-16 blue and and MK-26 purple)

I haven't yet crafted the purple -- don't have any of the mats. There was one selling for 1.5 million, but I didn't really care THAT much.

Curious also from your obvious critiquing of the game so far ... how OP is slicing? I've only got the db to work off until I get home but from what I'm hearing the DB ir correct and slicing is hugely OP now with the schem usage?

Well, seeing as how the only relevant gear I can craft at the moment is augments, slicing it seems pretty useful at the moment.

There is no new equivalent "basic gear" (like the 186 gear was for 3.0). The only thing you can craft that is better than what was available in 3.0 is the new Defiant MK-16s and MK-26s, but that requires conquest mats.

It is a bit weird that slicing mats made it's way into mods, enhancements, hilts and barrels. At least for the grade 36-37 stuff it's all blue mats, which are as easy to come by as sand in the desert.

The grade 42 stuff (ripped from ops token gear and RE'ed) will require the purple slicing mats, but at that point it's the Dark Matter Catalyst that's going to be the bottleneck -- who cares about ACs at that point, anyway?

It's not a super big deal or anything. I'll adjust to it, but it this surely isn't for the stated purpose of "making crafting easier". It seems more likely that the purpose was to slow down the rate of crafting of actual final products, but that isn't something they would come right out and say.

 

/shrug

Yeah it is inconvenient.

Now I have to store the materials, the bought materials appropriate to the individual skills, and now keep a stash of these items on hand, which also means spending time queing up companion after companion to make these so that I can build up a stash to allow myself to craft when I want/need to.

It's going to end up being a lot of time spent crafting things just so I can later spend time crafting things.

I would rather they have just added the time to whatever I was crafting... If something needs 4 bronzium thingamajigs then add the time to craft four bronzium thingamajigs to the base schematic and just let me use the base materials.

If they felt that they needed something more than some type of flux to make the schematic seem more "real" then replace the various fluxes or whatever other craft-specific item was being used with different thingamajigs that the vendors sell or that I can run missions for.

At least that way I could just queue up stuff as I wanted it and save a little inventory space.

IIt's not a super big deal or anything. I'll adjust to it, but it this surely isn't for the stated purpose of "making crafting easier". It seems more likely that the purpose was to slow down the rate of crafting of actual final products, but that isn't something they would come right out and say.

 

/shrug

Actually, as we discussed previously, it does make things easier. There is no more RNG as to which missions you get or which mats they return. The additional step adds in a deterministic delay as opposed to the variable delay that was there before. For people like me (who keep a large number of mats in stock), it's a slight nuisance at first, but once you get into the steady state, it's business as usual. It's a one-off cost.

For the new player (at whom the changes were targeted), however, it means that they don't have to beat their heads against a wall of RNG,

Actually, as we discussed previously, it does make things easier. There is no more RNG as to which missions you get or which mats they return.

Okay, let me clarify my statement.

OVERALL crafting is easier, that I can agree.

But the additional intermediary components adds more steps to crafting, making the crafting (not gathering, mind you) take longer. This particular addition to crafting is does not assist in the effort of "make it easier". It just makes it take longer and (for me at least), is a cramp in my workflow.

I am very happy about not having to refresh my mission lists, and that RE chance was raised to 60%. Both of those are beneficial. The component step, in my opinion, seems to be at odds with the other Qualify of Life upgrades, purely if one assumes the purpose of "make crafting easier"

Therefore, I am left with the impression that the component step was NOT added to make crafting easier, but was added for some other reason. Perhaps to slow down end-game crafting? Perhaps to change the way the market plays?

SM ops drops 216

HM ops drops 220

"High value target" ops drops 224.

 

I believe that's where one of the ops is boosted to NM or something? Not 100% sure.

Not sure either, I don't think it was mentioned or if it was just a measure to encourage people to do HM more?

You get the blue item at the vendor -- that's rating 208. I RE'ed it to purple (rating 216).

 

I'm 99% sure that it cannot be RE'ed again, based on torcommunity only listing two types of Defiant gear (MK-16 blue and and MK-26 purple)

 

I haven't yet crafted the purple -- don't have any of the mats. There was one selling for 1.5 million, but I didn't really care THAT much.

Right so based on the blog the 208 is SM gear even though we have bolster for SM so that's more or less useless or would it just be nice gear for open world ... which is only really the story itself now with level sync?

So then you get the 216 gear ( that sounds overly expensive to craft so far ) to run HM with but you can get this easily from running SM anyway ( with bolster )?

What about comm gear where does that fit in to the picture?

So far it sounds like this new gear is a complete waste of time and you'd be crazy wasting any time or resources attempting to craft it?

Well, seeing as how the only relevant gear I can craft at the moment is augments, slicing it seems pretty useful at the moment.

 

There is no new equivalent "basic gear" (like the 186 gear was for 3.0). The only thing you can craft that is better than what was available in 3.0 is the new Defiant MK-16s and MK-26s, but that requires conquest mats.

 

It is a bit weird that slicing mats made it's way into mods, enhancements, hilts and barrels. At least for the grade 36-37 stuff it's all blue mats, which are as easy to come by as sand in the desert.

 

The grade 42 stuff (ripped from ops token gear and RE'ed) will require the purple slicing mats, but at that point it's the Dark Matter Catalyst that's going to be the bottleneck -- who cares about ACs at that point, anyway?

It got into crystals and tons else ... 41 pages on Tor community vs I think 2 for midltihe crystals ... something really seems off about that.

The more I read into these crafting changes the more of an utter fail it's been except ... RE'ing is easier ... for the brief amount of time that's going to be a thing before you need not RE anymore heh.

I think there was one other good qol change I've forgotten too.

I try be positive about the game and where they head but damn ... slot machine design again right here it seems.

Actually, as we discussed previously, it does make things easier. There is no more RNG as to which missions you get or which mats they return. The additional step adds in a deterministic delay as opposed to the variable delay that was there before. For people like me (who keep a large number of mats in stock), it's a slight nuisance at first, but once you get into the steady state, it's business as usual. It's a one-off cost.

 

For the new player (at whom the changes were targeted), however, it means that they don't have to beat their heads against a wall of RNG,

Lol here we go again.

I thought you might be quoting directly about the extra crafting step ( that would make no sense though ) but it seems you want to reflect on the changes as a whole.

Now you can't even defend the "4 crew skills" position because it's there to see in the game. Sure not every schem has it but many do and there is nothing easier about this ( 8 materials to track for 1 item in some cases up from 4 ) plus the extra crafting step.

If this were a bug and gets fixed I'll change my stance but until then ... craziness. No more self sufficient toon crafting without buying mats ... yay super easy and streamlined.

I'm yet to see any other players come forward ( except you ) and go "wow this is tons easier thanks Bioware!"

Okay, let me clarify my statement.

 

OVERALL crafting is easier, that I can agree.

 

But the additional intermediary components adds more steps to crafting, making the crafting (not gathering, mind you) take longer. This particular addition to crafting is does not assist in the effort of "make it easier". It just makes it take longer and (for me at least), is a cramp in my workflow.

 

I am very happy about not having to refresh my mission lists, and that RE chance was raised to 60%. Both of those are beneficial. The component step, in my opinion, seems to be at odds with the other Qualify of Life upgrades, purely if one assumes the purpose of "make crafting easier"

 

Therefore, I am left with the impression that the component step was NOT added to make crafting easier, but was added for some other reason. Perhaps to slow down end-game crafting? Perhaps to change the way the market plays?

You are correct, this particular step does not improve QOL, and in fact -- in isolation -- it detracts from QOL However, in conjunction with the removal of the RNG, as you noted, the OVERALL system is easier. As I have said before, this is the price we pay for the other things that we wanted. And by "we", as I have said, I mean "all the people who have begged for the removal of the RNG". As I have said many times, *we* (as in "you and I") aren't the intended beneficiaries of the changes. *We* were (or at least *I was*) able to deal with the RNG by running a large enough number of missions to get the expected payout. The people complaining weren't, and there were more of them, so BW changed the system to accommodate them. At cost.

Now you can't even defend the "4 crew skills" position because it's there to see in the game. Sure not every schem has it but many do and there is nothing easier about this ( 8 materials to track for 1 item in some cases up from 4 ) plus the extra crafting step.

 

If this were a bug and gets fixed I'll change my stance but until then ... craziness. No more self sufficient toon crafting without buying mats ... yay super easy and streamlined.

 

I'm yet to see any other players come forward ( except you ) and go "wow this is tons easier thanks Bioware!"

I have no desire to defend anything BW has done. Most of what I've seen looks like crap, and the slicing mats in way too many schematics is, in fact, particularly crappy. I made a point of not addressing the issue earlier because it was not official. Now that it's official, I have no problem saying that it's crap.

That said, the system *is* easier, at least IMO. I don't like RNG-dependent things, and the components are (IMO) an acceptable price to pay for the removal of the RNG. Adding the Slicing mats to some schems, especially since they didn't bother to discuss it in the crafting blog, does go beyond what I consider an "acceptable" price to pay, however.

I have no desire to defend anything BW has done. Most of what I've seen looks like crap, and the slicing mats in way too many schematics is, in fact, particularly crappy. I made a point of not addressing the issue earlier because it was not official. Now that it's official, I have no problem saying that it's crap.

 

That said, the system *is* easier, at least IMO. I don't like RNG-dependent things, and the components are (IMO) an acceptable price to pay for the removal of the RNG. Adding the Slicing mats to some schems, especially since they didn't bother to discuss it in the crafting blog, does go beyond what I consider an "acceptable" price to pay, however.

Is not the only true removal of RNG from the crafting process though the ability to now choose your mission for gathering/missions which arguably doesn't neccessarily have to be part of the crafting process?

People mention RE RNG and that's wonderful but it's a temporary boon, once you have the schems that aspect is useless unlike the extra crafting step.

Is not the only true removal of RNG from the crafting process though the ability to now choose your mission for gathering/missions which arguably doesn't neccessarily have to be part of the crafting process?

No. Prior to 4.0 there was RNG in which missions you could run *and* what those missions returned. The example I gave earlier was Grade 9 Bioanalysis mats. There were two types -- Samples and Compounds,. There were two subtypes of each -- i.e., two different Sample types and two different Compound types. If you "won" the RNG to get the mission type (Sample or Compound) you wanted, you then had had to win the RNG to get which subtype you wanted. So you had to win two RNGs in succession to get what you wanted.

In 4.0, BW removed the "extra" subtypes -- e.g., for Grade 9 Bio there is now only one Sample and one Compound. AND they put all missions on the list. So now you can run whichever mission type (Sample or Compound) you want, and there is only one return type, so you always get you want. In return, however, when we want to craft an item, we have to combine the greens and whites in one stage and add the blues/purples in a second stage. That was what I explained with my "10/20/30" algorithms.

We get rid of two layers of RNG in return for one additional layer of non-random work.

People mention RE RNG and that's wonderful but it's a temporary boon, once you have the schems that aspect is useless unlike the extra crafting step.

You are correct. However, as I pointed out earlier, you only need to build up one stack of the new components to reach the steady state, so it really is a one-time cost just like RE'ing things. Once you have the first few components, making more is no more difficult than trying to get a specific subtype of a given mat.

You are correct, this particular step does not improve QOL, and in fact -- in isolation -- it detracts from QOL However, in conjunction with the removal of the RNG, as you noted, the OVERALL system is easier. As I have said before, this is the price we pay for the other things that we wanted.

You say: "this is the price we pay for the other things we wanted"

Are you implying that a QoL upgrade should be "balanced" by adding something else that isn't a QoL upgrade?

Or did I misunderstand you?

Taken as a whole, the crafting changes and additions are underwhelming to say the least.

No new schematics for basic / common level hilts, barrels, ears, implants, relics, mods, armoring, or enhancements.

New basic / common level stuff that most will consider junk as it is blue, non-modular, and requires quite a few exotic materials to craft, not to mention competed with common crystal gear and WZ commendation gear, both of which are extremely easy to gain the necessary commendation for purchase.

New SM / HM level stuff that will probably have very niche demand, again because it is non-modular and not only requires a few exotic materials but also a material throttled by conquest, not to mention all HM FPs and SM ops are fully bolstered, and all drop modular gear of equal or better quality.

Random-ish seeming schematics for various crew skills that require slicing materials and / or do not require the typical matched mission material and / or require the 'assembly' from another crew skill.

A extra step added in every schematic to craft 'assembly' items before being able to craft final product.

Loss of lots of legacy schematics.

A consolidation of older materials which does have its positives, but not as many to my play-style as to a few other posters, so a net wash for me personally.

Ability to select any mission, which is a great QOL change, but given the very limited items able to be crafted and the subset of those that actually use appropriate mission materials, not as big a QOL as it would have been absent the stupidity of other changes.

More resources from harvesting, great for those that spend time riding in circles on planets, no big deal to me personally.

No. Prior to 4.0 there was RNG in which missions you could run *and* what those missions returned. The example I gave earlier was Grade 9 Bioanalysis mats. There were two types -- Samples and Compounds,. There were two subtypes of each -- i.e., two different Sample types and two different Compound types. If you "won" the RNG to get the mission type (Sample or Compound) you wanted, you then had had to win the RNG to get which subtype you wanted. So you had to win two RNGs in succession to get what you wanted.

 

In 4.0, BW removed the "extra" subtypes -- e.g., for Grade 9 Bio there is now only one Sample and one Compound. AND they put all missions on the list. So now you can run whichever mission type (Sample or Compound) you want, and there is only one return type, so you always get you want. In return, however, when we want to craft an item, we have to combine the greens and whites in one stage and add the blues/purples in a second stage. That was what I explained with my "10/20/30" algorithms.

 

We get rid of two layers of RNG in return for one additional layer of non-random work.

Ignoring the 4 crew skills required for schems ... even if they came from the same 2 crew skills as before that is still 7 independent materials and a crafted material I have to keep track of for my schematics.

I only have 6 crew to achieve 7 material gathers and 2 crafts ... that's effectively 9 steps.

You can argue the "once you build up a base" but there is no analysis provided on what that entails ( and I am not doing it because I don't think you're correct solely by the 6 crew vs 9 steps point ) and how accurate it is.

For example how long do you need to be playing each day and how long does each login period need to be on one toon to make it so you can effectively and consistently gather the materials required ( ignoring nodes, this would be done during game play I assume for most casual players ), craft the first step and again craft the second step.

I mean if you play 8 hours straight every day it's probably not too much of an issue ( possibly storage ) as you could constantly be sending out those companions as soon the return so it would come down to how long the 2 crafting steps take vs the gathering steps ( even though you can't do the second crafting step until the first one is complete so let's hope the first step is much faster than the second ).

However say you are a person who logs in once or twice a day to send out their companions ( for example I can use myself and I believe psandak has often stated this is how he operates though he at least as multi toons to balance out the multi mat issue but even then it's not going to balance out as well as it did in 3.0 because you're still running into the point of not being able to send out as many crafters for finished products, regardless of how many toons, as you did with the same setup in 3.0 ) this system is utter fail to any sense of streamlining the process because doing it this way I just won't have the mats available to send our crafters each login as I did in 3.0

You say: "this is the price we pay for the other things we wanted"

 

Are you implying that a QoL upgrade should be "balanced" by adding something else that isn't a QoL upgrade?

 

Or did I misunderstand you?

You misunderstood Showing all the missions is not *just* a QoL change, it changes the expected rate of mat acquisition (supply). People weren't asking solely for convenience, they were asking for it because they wanted more mats faster. No, BW didn't *have* to rebalance anything, it's just not unreasonable that they did so.

You can argue the "once you build up a base" but there is no analysis provided on what that entails

I'm not making any argument based on how I manage my mats. All I'm saying is that people complained about the RNG and BW removed the RNG and replaced it with something deterministic. If you didn't like the RNG, this should be an improvement. If you didn't care about the RNG, than yes, this could be irritating. But I can send out six companions to craft 5 components each, so that's 30 components in less than 20 minutes, and that's enough to get started.

You misunderstood Showing all the missions is not *just* a QoL change, it changes the expected rate of mat acquisition (supply). People weren't asking solely for convenience, they were asking for it because they wanted more mats faster. No, BW didn't *have* to rebalance anything, it's just not unreasonable that they did so.

Ahh. I get what you're saying.

So then, with this in mind, wouldn't you agree with my statement that the addition of crafting components was NOT done to make crafting easier, but for some other reason?

That was really the only point I wanted to make.

Ahh. I get what you're saying.

 

So then, with this in mind, wouldn't you agree with my statement that the addition of crafting components was NOT done to make crafting easier, but for some other reason?

 

That was really the only point I wanted to make.

I don't see it as separable from the removal of the RNG. On it's own it doesn't make things easier -- if I'm right about why it was included, BW should have presented it as part of the remove-RNG feature so that everybody could see that it was clearly a package deal. By just listing it as a separate item in their change log / blog, I can totally understand why people would say "HTF does this *help* me?".

OTOH, even though it should be obvious that if a game is supposed to have challenges, and being sub-based, will have some time sinks, I can understand devs not wanting to call attention to them. I can't imagine sausage makers wanting to explain *how* the ingredients are used, they just list them as required by law and hope people don't ask

Edit: I just got a disturbing image in my head -- imagine what the general chat on a sausage maker's forum would look like if mmo players were on it. I'm thinking the RPPM/ RNG discussions would be priceless.