Only time guard on healers is really more useful is in HM tfb. When we get pulled up to the platforms our tanks will guard the healers. It seems like when healers go up and start healing right away you run into a serious aggro problem

I hate to break it to you guys but for every 1 point that a healer heals they gain 2 threat, if you deal 1 point of damage your threat goes up by 1 point. So Healers need guard because they generate the most threat. End of Story.

I mean I've seen instances where there's been two 72 geared sents/gunslingers and the tank goes ahead and chucks the guard on some lower geared healer.

 

Is there any reason why this still happens? Bad advice become force of habit perhaps?

 

I have a Guardian Tank, and lately, because of the spiky damage a Shadow Tank takes, I find myself tossing Guard on them(Ops only and in certain instances) and pulling the aggro of whatever they were pulling just to save the Shadow.

 

Other than that, I usually don't guard anyone, because I can hold aggro. That's the point of a tank, work your rotations and cool-downs and you shouldn't have a problem.....ever.

Edited September 9, 2013 by DarknessInLight

I hate to break it to you guys but for every 1 point that a healer heals they gain 2 threat, if you deal 1 point of damage your threat goes up by 1 point. So Healers need guard because they generate the most threat. End of Story.

 

5/10

 

You lose some points for being too obvious, but nice attempt.

It depends on the situation really. If it's large trash mobs where there are lots and lots of adds the tank might put a guard on a healer to avoid them pulling from the healing agro. Most of the time a guard isn't really needed all that often

I hate to break it to you guys but for every 1 point that a healer heals they gain 2 threat, if you deal 1 point of damage your threat goes up by 1 point. So Healers need guard because they generate the most threat. End of Story.

 

thats wrong. for every point of healing the healer gains 0.5 points threat.

it looks like overheal does not generate threat in a boss fight.

I guard healers when the dps are morons and attack the mob with the highest hitpoints first, leaving all the weak mobs to shoot the **** out of the healer.

 

Thats the only reason healers insist on guard in flashpoints (especially hammer station), there are so many dps who can't do their freaking job properly and pick off all the weak mobs first.

I guard healers when the dps are morons and attack the mob with the highest hitpoints first, leaving all the weak mobs to shoot the **** out of the healer.

 

Thats the only reason healers insist on guard in flashpoints (especially hammer station), there are so many dps who can't do their freaking job properly and pick off all the weak mobs first.

 

^ This

 

Guarding the healer is the percentage play in pugging fp.

 

If you get a good group it doesn't matter who you guard.

 

If the dps not killing weaks first in trash packs, guarding the healer can make the difference.

Ahahahaha. Oh man, this is so timely. Because there are still people out there who think this is Canon.

 

Funny anecdote related to this that just happened to me last night:

I was tanking SM Hammer Station on a Shadow while my friend was playing a Scoundrel Healer. We've been playing together for a while now and as a tank/healer combo in the 55 Operations for several months, so we have a pretty high comfort level with each others' skills in the respective roles.

 

We got a PUG Shadow and Sentinel as DPS via Group Finder, and I slapped my Guard on the Sentinel. Not four pulls in (after that big hairy one near the beginning), the DPS Shadow slapped a Guard on my friend--which indicated they'd either switched or was running in tank form. When I called them on it, the Shadow proceeded to throw a snit fit about how I wasn't guarding the healer, how I was doin' it wrong but didn't want to tank themselves. When both I (as the tank) and my friend (as the healer in question) pointed out it wasn't necessary to Guard the healer and that I knew what I was doing, I can only assume the Shadow proceeded to ragequit the group.

 

I can understand PUG Healers wanting the Guard from an unknown tank or a tank in a PUG group maybe putting the Guard on the Healer until they get a sense of the DPS, but having a DPS throw a hissy about it when the healer doesn't have a problem with it...pretty laughable. XD And yet the misconception persists.

 

----

 

Also, FWIW, like others have noted, my Op group has some points where we do put Guards on the Healers instead of the DPS--Phase 2 of the TfB fight is one of them. Phase 1 of Operator IX is another (but we've only done SM so far, this may change when we get to HM).

Edited September 9, 2013 by AlixMV

I guard healers when the dps are morons and attack the mob with the highest hitpoints first, leaving all the weak mobs to shoot the **** out of the healer.

 

Thats the only reason healers insist on guard in flashpoints (especially hammer station), there are so many dps who can't do their freaking job properly and pick off all the weak mobs first.

 

^ This

 

Guarding the healer is the percentage play in pugging fp.

 

If you get a good group it doesn't matter who you guard.

 

If the dps not killing weaks first in trash packs, guarding the healer can make the difference.

 

Hey OP, here is the answer to your question, Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints? enjoy!

It depends on the situation really. If it's large trash mobs where there are lots and lots of adds the tank might put a guard on a healer to avoid them pulling from the healing agro. Most of the time a guard isn't really needed all that often

 

That's not going to help, the healer would still have the aggro if those adds are not handled. The healers would indeed have less thread (25%?) but this tiny bit will still be over the 0 thread the others have.

 

There is few cases where guarding a healer can make sense, assuming player follow their role: If the DPS aren't focusing on the same target than the tank, they're too far to benefit the guard, there is an immediate thread of damage on a player. For instance:

- Cademinu, Xander & EN-4C: the DPS are supposed to attack the droid as well as the tank, therefore can't steal the aggro

- Mandalorian Raiders, Braxx the Bloodhound: the DPS focus on the dogs, and may be out of range while the healer wouldn't like to. The boss' need to be taunted regularly.

- TFB operator IX, adds start with some aggro already and the DPS are not supposed to be on range most of the time anyway

- The false Emperor, switch the guard to whoever Malgus is going to target.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Nkya

I´m Commando and Merc healer, I am not angry to be guarded when the tank decides to jump into massive trash groups. TraumaProbe/Med-Shield guarantee instant attention from the mobs if I forget to take it back and cast it again few moments later. Depending on FP and diffculty i´m torn apart in split seconds, it´s only few (2-3) spots where this happens but they are there.

I´m Commando and Merc healer, I am not angry to be guarded when the tank decides to jump into massive trash groups. TraumaProbe/Med-Shield guarantee instant attention from the mobs if I forget to take it back and cast it again few moments later. Depending on FP and diffculty i´m torn apart in split seconds, it´s only few (2-3) spots where this happens but they are there.

 

Yeah, BW really need to learn from that "other" company that changed the threat on a reactive shield type healing ability to apply to the person healed rather than the caster of the heal.

I mean I've seen instances where there's been two 72 geared sents/gunslingers and the tank goes ahead and chucks the guard on some lower geared healer.

 

Is there any reason why this still happens? Bad advice become force of habit perhaps?

 

I have the suspicion that "guarding" means a different thing in PvP than in FPs & OPS - and that people mean the same.

 

Meaning that "guarding healers" is seemingly common in PvP, and that perhaps people bring it from there into FPs & OPs.

Guarding the healer appears to be the quick and easy way, since a majority of the time the healer will be pulling aggro if an enemy is left to their own devices (not taunted or attacked).

 

As I healer I love guard, love it, however when I'm levelling alts and a DPS is the higher level and better geared (especially if they're melee) I'll ask for the tank to guard them. If the tank asks why, I explain. That's not to say guards should be on the highest level / highest geared all the time. As an operative healer if I have 2 on-going heals (Kolto Probe) on all 4 group members using my aggro dump when I get aggro does squat.

 

The best tanks I've found seem to have their guard somewhere they can use it, since they change it mid battle. If the healer is fine but your friendly DPS is getting hammered, a switch to absorb some of that damage can really assist. After all, the damage absorption only works if the target is within a certain distance, 15m I believe, which a lot of PUGS seem to forget.

 

Still, the worst guard is one that isn't used at all

Healers only get aggro when literally no one else touches a mob. In a group of 5 mobs, my ptech's rapid shots (weakestability) will do more threat to a stray mob than a healer putting out 20,000 points of healing (rare in most FP trash fights). With a guard 27k healing will do about the same threat as 20k without).

 

So, whether the healer does 50 healing or 19k, a mob that has not been sneezed on will go straight to him. Similarly if the healer cc's before the tank attacks. Whether the healer gets threat for 19k healing or 25% less than that makes approximately zero difference

 

But then, when I do tank, I usually dont putguard out till a dps pulls off me a couple times, at which point they get guard and a pat on the back.

The best tanks I've found seem to have their guard somewhere they can use it, since they change it mid battle. If the healer is fine but your friendly DPS is getting hammered, a switch to absorb some of that damage can really assist. After all, the damage absorption only works if the target is within a certain distance, 15m I believe, which a lot of PUGS seem to forget.

 

 

Do the damage absortion ( from guarded player to tank ) work on PvE ? I thought that was an only PvP thing.

Do the damage absortion ( from guarded player to tank ) work on PvE ? I thought that was an only PvP thing.

 

the damage redirect (half inc damage taken to tank instead) is only for pvp

there damage reduction (-5% inc damage) is for pve (and maybe for pvp too, but i haven't really bothered to test it)

the damage redirect (half inc damage taken to tank instead) is only for pvp

there damage reduction (-5% inc damage) is for pve (and maybe for pvp too, but i haven't really bothered to test it)

 

I thought damage reduction was only in PVP as well, with threat reduction being the only tangible PVE benefit.

I whish that people would react less autistic about guarding.

 

I'm not sure you fully understand what autism is.

Once you get to a certain level of comfort with your tanking you start using guard for the damage reduction component (as others have pointed out in various nightmare op situations) rather than the threat component.

 

I guard my healer for Heirad nightmare since that's where the most benefit came from in my comp. There are other situations but I don't really use guard for threat any more. I have to really mess up my rotation for anyone to pull threat or I have to recover from a DPS accidentally hitting their taunt.

 

If I'm doing a random hardmode flashpoint I might use guard on someone if they're really undergeared just to help them stay alive but threat isn't a concern. Too many tanks use it as a crutch to make up for bad rotations, imo.

Once you get to a certain level of comfort with your tanking you start using guard for the damage reduction component (as others have pointed out in various nightmare op situations) rather than the threat component.

i think both are very valid forms of using guard, but i don't understand why some people seem to think that there's only one, infallible way to use guard that it is the only appropriate method in every scenario.

Edited September 13, 2013 by oaceen

Healers only get aggro when literally no one else touches a mob. In a group of 5 mobs, my ptech's rapid shots (weakestability) will do more threat to a stray mob than a healer putting out 20,000 points of healing

 

In practice this is incorrect. If the tank is under or poorly geared (my Sin tank's DG was not optimal for 2.0 Mitigation style) the healer can pump out more threat than the dps in group. But that's about the only case. And yes, she only healed; no dps whatsoever. But she was pulling agro. Once my gear was updated that never happened again.

 

I've also tested this with leveling my PT tank to 55 from 50 finally, since his mitigation stats were set up properly for 2.0, the healer agro issue did not occur. Though, one might argue it was due to poor dps transitioning from pre 2.0 dps as well...I don't believe that holds much merit.

 

All this being said...there really is almost no reason to guard a healer in FPs.

I use my Commando to guard the healer cause I aggro EVERYTHING onto me in Heroics and FPs. I usually have the healer just healing me, cause I use that taser aggro thing on all the mobs, who hen proceed to knock off half my health before I can activate my shield-thingy. This is how I sometimes play through Heroic 4s and Area 4s with only 2 people and companions. The only problem I usually have is micro-managing Elara or Jorgan (The two that I have so far) while I'm trying to use my tank cycle.

I'm playing tank and sniper (cleaned HM content with both) and in fact current FP need's more guard on the dps than on the heal:

- dps is often pulling before tank

- dps doesn't use threat reduction

- dps is attacking different target than tank

- dps likes to give full burst to take agro and have a "big one"

 

When I play tank I hate it but when I play sniper I do the same...

 

And during this time heal has no risk to be focussed by the ennemies.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Terza