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How many subscriptions SWTOR still have?


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except you forget that they can't lie during investor calls. They said during the investor calls that it was ABOVE 500k in the last call.

 

This.... And as much as we are not privy to the exact info on it... Shareholders are. They do have Exact numbers. And probably asked for them as well.

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Ignore what the other poster said.

 

The reason why is because EA doesnt want only profitable, they want a rampanging sucess that gives them alot of money. That is the only reason why the game went F2P option. EA craves alot of money as fast as possible. Its usually the enemy of perfection, but if EA does get that, then the game will thrive with more support.

 

 

 

Actually that was with free month. I dont recall sub numbers above 1.2-1.5 million.

 

First announced number was 1.7 million

http://www.gamespot.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-sells-2m-has-17m-active-subs-6349578

Edited by Taorus
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As best as we can tell from the Financial Statements SW:TOR's decision to go F2P was not because we had crashed through the bottom of the "break-even-floor" of 500,000, but due to panic on EA's part that their projected profit margin likely shrunk by two-thirds.

 

We were given a series of reports: A steady decline from 1.7Million to 1.35 Million to "less than a million but more than 500,000."

 

I would hazard a guess at 750,000 as a moderated point.

 

We have lost two-thirds of our subscription base.

If we gain back 1 player for every 4 we lost over the last year we will be over a million subs.

 

I would quite like that actually.

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you guys are out of your mind this game has less than 100k or it wouldn't of went f2p or releasing dlc as an expansion. AT lest until Bioware shows numbers and proves otherwise.

 

This is by far the most idiotic response I have seen. All new MMOs will be f2p. F2P is not a bad thing. The only reason World of Warcraft has not adopted this is due to the fact that they do have so many subscribers. If they had between 1 to 2 Million they would switch over to free to play also. Free to play with a cash shop always makes more money. Unless you have over two million subscribers

Edited by LordVilos
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My friends and I picked this game back up when it went F2P last month. We are now all subscribers. For now.

 

I like the fact that I can still play the game even when it doesn't feel worth the monthly fee. F2P is indeed the future but it doesn't mean free gaming. It just means the subscribe-to-a-video-game model didn't make sense for the industry.

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So, if SWTOR never got below 500k subs, the point they originally set their measuring stick, why the hell did EA did such a mess with the SWTOR team? Layoffs, restrictions in the budget, etc?

 

If the game was, although not the new king of MMOs, a financial success, why take those measures that so strongly resemble "milk-the-cash-cow-dry-and-run"?

 

Anyone has any idea?

Here is a base explination why the team got cut down. its an industry standard on most part and this some it very well.

 

Here

 

Its the 7th post down.

 

This could also be referd to the post that said the subs were 100k, its the first post, very well written very well.

Edited by Bounty_
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So, according to posters opinion, SWTOR amount of active subscripstions is between 300k-600k.

 

An average of 450k then? WoW. less than 20% of the top number.:(:(

 

Not sure about how I feel about this... I wanted this game to be the next WoW, you know... What did we do wrong?:(

Good news and bad news. The good news ( I guess) is that these forums represent (on industry average anyway) less than 5% of the playing population. Most are intelligent enough (unlike yours truly) to not subject themselves to flaming when they openly support a game. They just go about their extracurricular activities, pay their subs and keep playing. They couldn't give a rats arse about someone who screams fail because no one on the inside caters to them directly.

 

The bad news (I guess) is this game will never be WoW in space for two reasons: [1] they are way different games (I did notice that WoW ditched their original pos UI in favor of a LOTRO clone - except you can't customize a damn thing ... classic Blizz), and [2] I doubt any MMO will have 10 million active subscribers again. Ever. WoW was in the right place at the right time. If you're looking for another shooting star like that, you'll be looking for a while. Like ... maybe decades.

 

Personally, I'll stick to my May prognostication: 850,000 by the new year and over 1M by the next expansion's release. This game probably will never see 5M actives. But again, no MMO ever will. Titan could be the exception, but only if Chuck Norris does their TV commercials.

 

To answer you're question ... the only people who did anything wrong were the so called "expert analysts." They too often display a penchant for treating "the next greatest thing" MMOs like junk bonds. It's mostly copy for trollnation. Which is why I personally take their expert opinions with a grain of salt.

Edited by GalacticKegger
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We don't have exact numbers.... so no one knows. For subs I will guess for you though. 300-600k sounds about right to me.

 

(all opinion of course)

 

^^^^ This

 

The fanbois will tell you its 600k + and everything is roses

The haters will say 300k or lower (not calling you a hater OP, just the number fits their patern)

 

Truth is probably somewhere in the middle at around 400k, but EAs never admitted that publically.

 

In a perfect world we should be able to read the shareholder reports to see an accurate number but EA has been padding those numbers since day 1 with free trials and non subscribed players (and I wouldnt expect them to change this joke of a policy now with the enterance of the F2P crowd)

 

In fact it wouldnt shock me to see them suddenly proclaim they over the million mark again (with the counting of the F2P accounts as "subscribers").

 

Best guess (with out a agenda either way) is 400k-500k.

 

As you pointed out, EA themselves said 500k was the break even point, so they had to be there for F2P to get as rushed in as it has.

 

As a player I certainly dont see this influx of players.

Ive been merged 2 times now, and rerolled from a dead server once, and even on my server (Harbringer) Black hole has dropped from 80 people to 12 people in off hours and the fleet load is much lesser now then when merger happened. So that indictates less players, not more playing.

 

Pop is down Subscriber wise but I do think the Cartel Market has given TOR a shot of adreniline Financially for the time begin.

 

Anyones guess if it can maintain long term. We shall see.

 

So thats your answer as best as you can find.

 

I know if I was a shareholder Id certainly like a non padder report on subscriber levels, but thats just not going to happen sadly.

 

So you will continue to hear everything is hunky dorry as servers merge and get shut down by the fanbois

and

you will hear how the bottom falling out by the haters

 

Just save yourself the headaches and cut the difference of the two groups and call it a day.

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, and [2] I doubt any MMO will have 10 million active subscribers again. Ever. WoW was in the right place at the right time. If you're looking for another shooting star like that, you'll be looking for a while. Like ... maybe decades.

 

Personally, I'll stick to my May prognostication: 850,000 by the new year and over 1M by the next expansion's release. This game probably will never see 5M actives. But again, no MMO ever will. Titan could be the exception, but only if Chuck Norris does their TV commercials.

 

 

This is exactly true, which puzzles me with why MMORPG companies constantly copy WoW instead of innovating in new ways.

 

Personally if I had to guess I'd say SWTOR probably had between 500,000 and 750,000 subs now (from a low of ~500,000 to 400,000 just befoee F2P) however I don't think it is rising going from server numbers.

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This is exactly true, which puzzles me with why MMORPG companies constantly copy WoW instead of innovating in new ways.

 

Personally if I had to guess I'd say SWTOR probably had between 500,000 and 750,000 subs now (from a low of ~500,000 to 400,000 just befoee F2P) however I don't think it is rising going from server numbers.

 

because inovation is too risky. Gamers always say they want something new and innovative but the truth is quite the opposite.

Whats the best selling FPS franchise? Call of Duty. Meanwhile innovative FPS like Killer 7, Stalker, Metro, Deus Ex and others at best do ok.

 

RTS? Starcraft is the most succesful while others that are far more innovative lose out.

 

TIme and time again players say they want something innovative but always buy the same old.

 

When it comes to MMOs you are talking about a HUGE investment so what do you do? You make it close to the industry leader while adding your own unique things.

Games that try something different like The Secret World, or SWG end up failing hard because the truth is players don't want that. Players want what they are used to.

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because inovation is too risky. Gamers always say they want something new and innovative but the truth is quite the opposite.

Whats the best selling FPS franchise? Call of Duty. Meanwhile innovative FPS like Killer 7, Stalker, Metro, Deus Ex and others at best do ok.

 

RTS? Starcraft is the most succesful while others that are far more innovative lose out.

 

TIme and time again players say they want something innovative but always buy the same old.

 

When it comes to MMOs you are talking about a HUGE investment so what do you do? You make it close to the industry leader while adding your own unique things.

Games that try something different like The Secret World, or SWG end up failing hard because the truth is players don't want that. Players want what they are used to.

 

This is so true.... look what happened here, in this very game. How many times have you seen, "this is standard MMo stuff that should have been added to the game"

 

Well maybe they were trying to do something different.

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because inovation is too risky. Gamers always say they want something new and innovative but the truth is quite the opposite.

Whats the best selling FPS franchise? Call of Duty. Meanwhile innovative FPS like Killer 7, Stalker, Metro, Deus Ex and others at best do ok.

 

RTS? Starcraft is the most succesful while others that are far more innovative lose out.

 

TIme and time again players say they want something innovative but always buy the same old.

 

When it comes to MMOs you are talking about a HUGE investment so what do you do? You make it close to the industry leader while adding your own unique things.

Games that try something different like The Secret World, or SWG end up failing hard because the truth is players don't want that. Players want what they are used to.

 

It is important to keep in mind that it's just a very vocal minority which keeps proclaiming they want something new, the rest simply can't be bothered to join in on those discussions prior to release.

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because inovation is too risky. Gamers always say they want something new and innovative but the truth is quite the opposite.

Whats the best selling FPS franchise? Call of Duty. Meanwhile innovative FPS like Killer 7, Stalker, Metro, Deus Ex and others at best do ok.

 

RTS? Starcraft is the most succesful while others that are far more innovative lose out.

 

TIme and time again players say they want something innovative but always buy the same old.

 

When it comes to MMOs you are talking about a HUGE investment so what do you do? You make it close to the industry leader while adding your own unique things.

Games that try something different like The Secret World, or SWG end up failing hard because the truth is players don't want that. Players want what they are used to.

 

 

Except innovation isn't more "risky" than just copying and failing again and again.

 

I know it's happening and why (this is why all video games, not just MMORPGs, are now endless copies of something done before, and the same can be said for films and largely music), I'm saying I don't agree with the corporate accountants view, they have no idea, which is WHY all those industries are declining.

 

Yet indy development (and film and music) is innovating and is getting bigger all the time.

 

 

 

SWTOR has a further problem in that they didn't even hit the lower bar for copying in many respects, and unfortunately Class Story (which has largely been abandoned now anyway) whilst GREAT doesn't make up for that. :(

Edited by Goretzu
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Except innovation isn't more "risky" than just copying and failing again and again.

 

I know it's happening and why (this is why all video games, not just MMORPGs, are now endless copies of something done before, and the same can be said for films and largely music), I'm saying I don't agree with the corporate accountants view, they have no idea, which is WHY all those industries are declining.

 

Yet indy development (and film and music) is innovating and is getting bigger all the time.

 

 

 

SWTOR has a further problem in that they didn't even hit the lower bar for copying in many respects, and unfortunately Class Story (which has largely been abandoned now anyway) whilst GREAT doesn't make up for that. :(

but it is more risky. Can you name an innovative MMO that has been succesful?

 

Yes some indie games are doing well the most obvious is Minecraft. However those are the few. Most indie games have only a handful of people working on it. Of course they never reach the numbers of CoD, or even the numbers of say Medal of Honor.

 

btw you assume that class story has been abandoned. Remember Makeb was just supposed to be a regular content patch. It was never meant to continue the class story. I assume that would happen with a proper expansion pack.

Edited by jarjarloves
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but it is more risky. Can you name an innovative MMO that has been succesful?

 

We've been through this before:

Can you name ANY MMORPG that has been "successful" since WoW?

 

 

Yes some indie games are doing well the most obvious is Minecraft. However those are the few. Most indie games have only a handful of people working on it. Of course they never reach the numbers of CoD, or even the numbers of say Medal of Honor.

There's a lot of indy games doing well, not Minecraft-well, but again Minecraft is an exception not the rule (much like WoW).

 

btw you assume that class story has been abandoned. Remember Makeb was just supposed to be a regular content patch. It was never meant to continue the class story. I assume that would happen with a proper expansion pack.

It's not in Makeb and there are no plans for the foreseeable future, sure we may see some more eventually (and we may never too), but it's not going to be before late 2013 at the very earilest. :(

Edited by Goretzu
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We've been through this before:

Can you name ANY MMORPG that has been "successful" since WoW?

 

 

 

There's a lot of indy games doing well, not Minecraft-well, but again Minecraft is an exception not the rule (much like WoW).

 

 

It's not in Makeb and there are no plans for the foreseeable future, sure we may see some more eventually (and we may never too), but it's not going to be before late 2013 at the very earilest. :(

 

1. Yes. EQ2 has been very succesful, LotrO it has found F2P is very profitable, and Rift is also doing well and still P2P.

 

2. Yes but indie games are ONLY succesful because they are small and made by small teams. You could not have an indy MMO for example.

 

3. Forseable future?? come on man we don't even know whats going to be in patch 1.7 let alone in Makeb. What makes you think we are going to know when the class stories are going to continue.

 

You need to remember we are still gettting content that was supposed to be out over the summer if they hadn't downsized. From the launch and data mining Makeb was supposed to be out in like patch 1.5.

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1. Yes. EQ2 has been very succesful, LotrO it has found F2P is very profitable, and Rift is also doing well and still P2P.

EQ2 was released 20 days before WoW, peaked at 350,000 subs (less than 50% of EQ1s and declined from there), it also wasn't innovative.

LOTRO did ok (peaking at 575,000 with F2P), but wasn't "successful" by WoWs standards and has an incredibly strong IP.

Rift again has done ok, and has certainly churned out more content with less devs and less players than SWTOR, but again "successful" compared to WoW? No.

 

2. Yes but indie games are ONLY succesful because they are small and made by small teams. You could not have an indy MMO for example.

I'm not so sure, several MMORPGs have been made by effectively "indy" teams, they usually sell out though. But again indy doesn't have the rights to innovation, its just they tend to use it rather than relying on copying and huge budgets.

3. Forseable future?? come on man we don't even know whats going to be in patch 1.7 let alone in Makeb. What makes you think we are going to know when the class stories are going to continue.

That's their words not mine when they were pressed in an interview about class story in Makeb and beyond.

You need to remember we are still gettting content that was supposed to be out over the summer if they hadn't downsized. From the launch and data mining Makeb was supposed to be out in like patch 1.5.

Indeed, I can't see how that means Class Story is going to arrive sooner though, if anything it will be later than theyve said (and they've not said it is coming at all).

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Again, it is very difficult to find such information. However, I , too, will give you my opinion. Since there two types (three if you include preferred) of accounts now: free-to-play and subscription. As far as subscriptions are concerned, I would be very surprised if actual subscriptions are over 300k. I would say there are over 300k free-to-play accounts. The bad thing about this is that I believe that those who are subscription players are responsible for more than 80% of cartel purchases.

That is really the point of the FP model on all games. Free subs keep the game feeling alive, so that the subs don't feel like the world is dead, but they don't pay much at all. In fact the market items aimed at the free subs such as UI mods are very cheap, just to encourage them to spend something.

 

The expensive items such as the gear are to entice the subs to spend more money, these are the players by definition more dedicated to the game, and more likely to spend money on fluff items. These fluff items are usually what generates the revenue and the actuals subs usually just keep the game standing still.

 

Personally I think the F2P model is going to work, but only if the future development is along the right lines, which Makeb shows it is not.

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I think the number of subscribers has increased a lot lately, i'd say somewhere around 750k, and rising.

Once new content rolls out things will get even better.

I actually think it's rising again as well. I've seen quite a few "Hurray, I just got my sub" yells this week.

F2P gives a very good try-before-you-buy, and that's the whole idea behind it in the first place. Get people to either subscribe, or have them spend a load of money to unlock their game to near-subscrition capabilities. F2P isn't to actually give you all benefits possible without paying. It's made with a lot of inconveniences (and that's really all they are!) to make you seriously consider subscribing, on the premise that one hour or more of fun every day for a whole month is worth the value of one round of beer in the pub with at most 4 friends, which are downed within 30 minutes. (and that's small glasses of cheap beer you're putting in then.)

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EQ2 was released 20 days before WoW, peaked at 350,000 subs (less than 50% of EQ1s and declined from there), it also wasn't innovative.

LOTRO did ok (peaking at 575,000 with F2P), but wasn't "successful" by WoWs standards and has an incredibly strong IP.

Rift again has done ok, and has certainly churned out more content with less devs and less players than SWTOR, but again "successful" compared to WoW? No.

 

 

.

 

Yup G is right

 

EQ2, while a much superior game then WOW, is not considered a market success. It had stronger then WOW numbers for first few months (mostly because it was a much nicer game to look at, plus it had original EQ followers trying game) and then WOW changed its marketting direction and rest is history. EQ2 however failed to reach the numbers that was originally projected for it.

 

LOTRO gets mentioned alot by people that dont understand the genre. *shrugs* I dont see any developers or industry people talking about it or imitating it in any manner though. Guess success here is in eyes of beholder.

 

RIFT was a complete and utter flop in its first year and anyone claiming differently is crazy. Rift couldnt maintain subscribers for more then 2 months at a time and after the first year was up they had used up pretty much their entire potential subscriber pool. RIFT however listened to the feedback and has huge design changes in this most recent expansion, changing many core design from what launched.

 

Strangly enough I was a fan of Rift and beta tested it and bought pre order, and was gone 6 weeks later as had seen and done all the content (both sides). Much like everyone else I knew that played game. Trion is betting heavy on the new expansion that they can draw subscribers back to RIFT.

 

Fact is no title since before WOW (WOW had nothing new either, was rehashed stuff with bad graphics and dumbed down game play) has been all that creative.

 

RIFT gets a nod for RIFT content. While done before it was done excellently well in RIFT.

 

Really the last game I can think of that really shocked the MMORPG genre (and was successful) was DAoC with their RVR system.

 

EQ2 did great with mentoring, crafting, houseing, and seasonal events. But game wasnt overly successful in the long run.

 

The thing is, devs dont really need to reinvent the wheel.

They just need to stop looking to copy WOW and start looking at what was successful before WOW and why.

 

This genre started in 1991 on AOL and has hosted a ton of successfull titles long before Warcraft was made (forget WOW, first MMORPG was released before original Warcraft released).

 

There is ALLOT of great ideas from different titles over the years.

Devs just need to take their blinders off, stop guzzeling the WOW kool Aide, and look at what makes a great game!

 

WOWs success isnt that hard to figure out.

Make a watered down product

Hire some popular celebrities to name drop the product while on Letterman and Leno and Conan

Make some very creative advertisements that make people remember them

Culture fads will do the rest for you

WOW success really isnt about great game play.

Its like McDonalds, over a billion served, and maybe 1% of the billion will say its the best burger ever.

McDonalds is to burgers what WOW is to MMORPGs.

Low grade product/high grade marketting

 

But if your trying to make a great game that will have a loyal following to it

Then you need to do your homework and look at everything not named WOW and get feedback from experienced and knowledgeable customers.

 

RIFT just took a step in that direction and im really hopeing TOR does as well soon (sooner the better)

 

Said it before and say it again

WOW was and is the WORST THING to ever hit the MMORPG genre and were STILL trying to recover from its long lasting effects.

 

Besides, why would anyone come to TOR/RIFT/Who Ever for a WOWish game experience when they can goto WOW and all its expansions and updates for the genuine experience?

 

The genre is not looking for the next WOW

Its looking for the next great game

The two are NOT the same thing

Edited by Kalfear
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EQ2 was released 20 days before WoW, peaked at 350,000 subs (less than 50% of EQ1s and declined from there), it also wasn't innovative.

LOTRO did ok (peaking at 575,000 with F2P), but wasn't "successful" by WoWs standards and has an incredibly strong IP.

Rift again has done ok, and has certainly churned out more content with less devs and less players than SWTOR, but again "successful" compared to WoW? No.

 

 

I'm not so sure, several MMORPGs have been made by effectively "indy" teams, they usually sell out though. But again indy doesn't have the rights to innovation, its just they tend to use it rather than relying on copying and huge budgets.

 

That's their words not mine when they were pressed in an interview about class story in Makeb and beyond.

 

Indeed, I can't see how that means Class Story is going to arrive sooner though, if anything it will be later than theyve said (and they've not said it is coming at all).

 

ok i see the problem. You think MMOs have to have WoWs numbers to be succesful. sorry kid but you are wrong.

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