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What type of operations would you enjoy seeing?


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New ones.

 

But in all seriousness, I was thinking about SWTOR's operations and how the developers mentioned that new endgame group content needs to feed into the overall story. Do you agree?

 

(Skip down for the question, or read ahead for the context)

 

Eternity Vault, Karagga's Palace, Explosive Conflict, TFB,+Dreadful, SnV+Hateful, Dread Fortress and Dread Palace were all part of the Dread Master storyline. Playing them from start to finish, especially after freeing them on Belsavis and doing the side quests and Oricon story, really made for a great experience that I haven't found in other MMO raids.

 

Toborro's Courtyard fits into the Makeb story, also tying in to the Makeb weekly where the Republic discovers that Makeb survived (and also implies that the canon Imperials either chose not to destroy the planet, or simply didn't do a thorough job of killing Regulators).

 

Temple of Sacrifice and Worldbreaker Monolith tie into the Shadow of Revan/Rise of the Emperor storyline.

 

Then there's The Ravagers

 

This one exists in its own little zone, even compared to Monolith and TC. Lore dump ahead that you can skip over.

From a canon perspective it seems to take place AFTER ToS since when you're on Rishi you're pretending to be a pirate and Ruugar offers his services to your faction and not the Red Hulls/Howling Tempest. Yavin/ToS takes place immediately following Battle of Rishi. My best guess is that we complete Ravagers either before Theron gets kidnapped, or that we go back after defeating Revan and Ruugar asks for our help after hearing about our victories over Margok, the Revanites and Torch.

 

 

Regardless of the above, Ravagers doesn't add much to the plot of the story. Note that Cora, Ruugar and B0-55 escape however. This Raid is a side story that doesn't serve to expand on the lore, unlike the Dread Master or Revan operations.

 

Would you like to see more operations like The Ravagers, where they don't fit as well in the overall narrative? Or would you like to see the operations saved for the big villains of the story, like with the DMs and Revan?

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New ones.

 

But in all seriousness, I was thinking about SWTOR's operations and how the developers mentioned that new endgame group content needs to feed into the overall story. Do you agree?

 

(Skip down for the question, or read ahead for the context)

 

Eternity Vault, Karagga's Palace, Explosive Conflict, TFB,+Dreadful, SnV+Hateful, Dread Fortress and Dread Palace were all part of the Dread Master storyline. Playing them from start to finish, especially after freeing them on Belsavis and doing the side quests and Oricon story, really made for a great experience that I haven't found in other MMO raids.

 

Toborro's Courtyard fits into the Makeb story, also tying in to the Makeb weekly where the Republic discovers that Makeb survived (and also implies that the canon Imperials either chose not to destroy the planet, or simply didn't do a thorough job of killing Regulators).

 

Temple of Sacrifice and Worldbreaker Monolith tie into the Shadow of Revan/Rise of the Emperor storyline.

 

Then there's The Ravagers

 

This one exists in its own little zone, even compared to Monolith and TC. Lore dump ahead that you can skip over.

From a canon perspective it seems to take place AFTER ToS since when you're on Rishi you're pretending to be a pirate and Ruugar offers his services to your faction and not the Red Hulls/Howling Tempest. Yavin/ToS takes place immediately following Battle of Rishi. My best guess is that we complete Ravagers either before Theron gets kidnapped, or that we go back after defeating Revan and Ruugar asks for our help after hearing about our victories over Margok, the Revanites and Torch.

 

 

Regardless of the above, Ravagers doesn't add much to the plot of the story. Note that Cora, Ruugar and B0-55 escape however. This Raid is a side story that doesn't serve to expand on the lore, unlike the Dread Master or Revan operations.

 

Would you like to see more operations like The Ravagers, where they don't fit as well in the overall narrative? Or would you like to see the operations saved for the big villains of the story, like with the DMs and Revan?

 

any at all would come as a surprise

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The problem is that when a raid involve story revolving around solo quests solo players get frustrated because they can't do them by themself. Just look at the number a thread we had a few month ago where people asked for solo operations.

 

the term of mmorpg implies you playing with others. if they want to tie operations with story people will just have to deal with the fact they need to group up.

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the term of mmorpg implies you playing with others. if they want to tie operations with story people will just have to deal with the fact they need to group up.

 

Maybe, but Bioware sort of found a workaround with Temple of Sacrifice. With that one, solo players had a series of daily quests to complete that allowed them to bypass the Operation and finish the story.

 

Compare that to the Dread War, where solo players couldn't complete the story at all due to needing to clear DF/DP.

 

Personally, I prefer the ToS way to the Dread War way, since it means I dont have to get a group together for my 15th alt, and I don't burn out since I raid weekly on my main.

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Dude, pay attention to yourself! In your first post you wrote down perfectly how the Dread Masters storyline works. Than you state that solo players can't finish the story becauso fo DF/DP? Come on, read your first post :D

 

Anyway, to the topic: I would be happy either way. I just wish for it to be in the corner now....

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the term of mmorpg implies you playing with others. if they want to tie operations with story people will just have to deal with the fact they need to group up.

 

Oh I know and I'm fine with that. But most solo players consider to be entitled to be able to play all the content their way so even if I think operations are better when tied in the story (Dread Wars operations are my favourite by far), it won't happen because Bioware don't want to force solo players to group up. That's the reason why we have solo FP, why you had a choice between solo and operation to finish Yavin, why we have a solo Revan fight and why we won't ever have a new operation tied in the story. We'll just have another Ravagers to make solo players happy. So I'm pretty sure we won't kill Arcan and Vaylin in an op even though that would make the most sense. We'll just kill them in a stupid easy solo fight with kolto stations.

 

Dude, pay attention to yourself! In your first post you wrote down perfectly how the Dread Masters storyline works. Than you state that solo players can't finish the story becauso fo DF/DP? Come on, read your first post :D

 

Anyway, to the topic: I would be happy either way. I just wish for it to be in the corner now....

 

Well, DP is kinda the end of the Dread War where you kill the remaining Dread Masters once and for all.

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i'd like a difficult single instance boss, but it should be somewhere people actually go, not makeb or ziost. that could be lore heavy.

maybe after a ''chapter'' or a single player mission, with shinies as prize, like a companion or a huge alliance boost, to involve people in ops.

and then i really like the ravagers model, funny, unrelated operations, so another like that. ravagers level of difficulty before the nerfs is fine for me.

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Well, DP is kinda the end of the Dread War where you kill the remaining Dread Masters once and for all.

 

My point is that if solo players think Oricon is a storyline not just a side quest chain leading up to DF/DP, than they missing the whole DM story arc.

 

To be back on topic again: it would be cool if we could see Cora, Ruugar and B0-55 in one fight. All of their abilities carried over ofc. With addition that Cora is taunt immune, and for Ruugar's hostage situation you have to turn B0-55's magnetic/electric stuff to him to let go of the hostage. Else the hostage dies(for example at the end of a channel). Call this op as The Revenge of the Ravagers, or just simply Ravagers 2.

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For me the Ravagers was always a perfect raid, because it was a great self-contained story with awesome very memorable characters and entertaining dialogue.

 

I enjoy the Dread Masters story arc, but killing the same characters over and over was boring, and, tbh, I don't think I managed to put together a cohesive plot from adding them up. I am too worried about getting through for that. There are memorable bosses there, with voicing that stands out, and the fights that keep me loving it, but as a cohesive story, no, it doesn't work for me.

 

I adore TfB for its funky battles.

 

Heh, I can't get enough of Gree, so more stories set in that sub-setting of the SWTOR would be gratefully received.

Edited by DomiSotto
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Lulz a new op?

 

Bioware dont know what that is. Maybe in 7 years we will get a dev post indicating that they are contemplating about a new flashpoint. But thats all we are likely to get

 

KoTFE = death of endgame raiding

 

Yeah, I think you're right.

 

I have always loved raiding in this game. I think the team size is just right and the combat flow is great.

 

Yes, the engine has issues. Yes, the quality control has been abysmal. Yes the support has been non-existent. In short, this company should be embarrassed at their treatment of Star Wars IP.

 

But still, the old model of SM/HM/NM was awesome. My groups would generally have something to do all the time. By the time new Ops were released we were either just finishing up NM or doing things like timed runs or mount farming from previous tiers. It was also fun helping out some of the less advanced teams work through previous-tier NM stuff.

 

Some of the fights have been brilliant. NM (WL) Kephess. NM OpIX. NM Draxus. NM Brontes. The balance and tuning was always just about right, with a few anomalies like prenerf DG that were eventually handled. My favorite fight in the game, HM Master Blaster is just ridiculously cool.

 

The change to Hardmare during SoR was a major disappointment. For groups like mine, it wasn't so bad. But for the other 10 or so groups in my guild, it represented a major reduction of playable content. These groups could barely get past Squadron, let alone something like Torque. The best they could aim for was 7/10. So a lot of them were having fun learning NM TFB/SV or DF/DP.

 

Now, there's literally nothing for them to do. And I think you're right, there won't ever be again. There's just the content they can do - which they were done with weeks ago - and the content they will never clear.

 

As much as I want to answer the question the OP is asking with "anything, just give us something!" I can't.

 

Because I know even if we get something, it will be ****.

 

It won't go on PTS. And if I'm wrong it doesn't matter because PTS feedback will be ignored.

 

It will be released with bugs, probably ones that make encounters broken. And BW will leave them there for months.

 

It won't be the same quality as the people responsible for the fights I mentioned above are long gone.

 

It won't have the same long-term playability, because they won't make NM and they won't raise the level cap.

 

It will be tuned horribly, and it will either never get fixed or nerfed/buffed by a ridiculous amount.

 

So what I'd like to see is another 3-difficulty-tier of operations akin to DF/DP but sadly I know that's just a dream.

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Wow, such doom and gloom amongst the raiding community. I think ending the Infinite Empire with an Op would be a natural. I see two ops would be great endings to the current chapter set and be a springboard to the next.

 

Ops 1

Assault on the Drakul Crystal Palace. A mixed faction team (hey, they are going to allow it on the pvp side, and it would be a challenge to balance properly, but a mixed final pve assault makes perfect sense) prepares for the final take down of the Emperor and his offspring.

 

Boss 1 - Your Alliance companions have softened up the area and readied your insertion into the Palace Base area. Wade through oceans of Star Troopers to get to their leader. Fight off strong counterattacks (waves of adds) to gain entry to the Palace.

 

Boss 2 - Since the Star Troopers and Fleet are droids under some kind of central control, fight to destroy or conquer the control center. Again, determined resistance must be overcome with any remaining Star Troopers being thrown at the fight.

 

Boss 3 - With the automated systems shut down, now the elite guard (what is left of them after the amusements of the children have thinned and weakened their ranks) fight for their charges.

 

Boss 4 - The children of the Emperor. My money is on the sister killing the brother when she gets a chance, but whomever is left in the final chapter becomes the battle royal. Fight should be in the Throne area, with knockbacks or throws plunging folks to their deaths.

 

Boss 5 Valkorian - If he is truly immortal, let's get SOA's old digs spruced up for a new occupant. Fire up the Rakatta energy chambers, and put the prison together while being whooped on by the galaxie's biggest baddie. Victory is when the blue green energy shell envelopes him!

 

Ops 2

So the King is dead, Long live the new King! Fly the Gravestone to a new system in the Infinite Empire and convert the planets to your faction! This fight is strictly for one faction or the other.

 

Boss 1 - While the Gravestone takes on portions of the Infinite Empire's Fleet, the players jump into their Galactic Starfighters and have a Grand 'Ol Furball (yes, this boy can dream Big!)

 

Boss 2 - I can still hear the sniveling from the first GSF fight, but now it is time to take out the AA defenses on the ground. Strafing runs, smart bombs, and a command and control center takedown to soften up for the ground assault to come.

 

Boss 3 - Once the skies are clear, it is time for the aerial assault. Riding in assault transports, players leapfrog the planet clearing areas of strong resistance leading to a ground commander fight.

 

Boss 4 - Planetary boss fight. A really big ugly to take down to win over the locals.

 

Boss 5 - Winning their hearts and minds. So you blew it all up, now you have to put something you can rule back together. (This is the part we still haven't figured out in the 21rst century) For added giggles install one of your companions as Supreme Leader of the system and keep them alive long enough for reinforcements to arrive.

 

Hey, the chances of it happening are slim, but so is winning the lottery, and all kinds of folks play that. You asked and I just had a creative burst I had to type in.

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Yeah, I think you're right.

 

I have always loved raiding in this game. I think the team size is just right and the combat flow is great.

 

Yes, the engine has issues. Yes, the quality control has been abysmal. Yes the support has been non-existent. In short, this company should be embarrassed at their treatment of Star Wars IP.

 

But still, the old model of SM/HM/NM was awesome. My groups would generally have something to do all the time. By the time new Ops were released we were either just finishing up NM or doing things like timed runs or mount farming from previous tiers. It was also fun helping out some of the less advanced teams work through previous-tier NM stuff.

 

Some of the fights have been brilliant. NM (WL) Kephess. NM OpIX. NM Draxus. NM Brontes. The balance and tuning was always just about right, with a few anomalies like prenerf DG that were eventually handled. My favorite fight in the game, HM Master Blaster is just ridiculously cool.

 

The change to Hardmare during SoR was a major disappointment. For groups like mine, it wasn't so bad. But for the other 10 or so groups in my guild, it represented a major reduction of playable content. These groups could barely get past Squadron, let alone something like Torque. The best they could aim for was 7/10. So a lot of them were having fun learning NM TFB/SV or DF/DP.

 

Now, there's literally nothing for them to do. And I think you're right, there won't ever be again. There's just the content they can do - which they were done with weeks ago - and the content they will never clear.

 

As much as I want to answer the question the OP is asking with "anything, just give us something!" I can't.

 

Because I know even if we get something, it will be ****.

 

It won't go on PTS. And if I'm wrong it doesn't matter because PTS feedback will be ignored.

 

It will be released with bugs, probably ones that make encounters broken. And BW will leave them there for months.

 

It won't be the same quality as the people responsible for the fights I mentioned above are long gone.

 

It won't have the same long-term playability, because they won't make NM and they won't raise the level cap.

 

It will be tuned horribly, and it will either never get fixed or nerfed/buffed by a ridiculous amount.

 

So what I'd like to see is another 3-difficulty-tier of operations akin to DF/DP but sadly I know that's just a dream.

 

this made me smile.

 

I just wanted to throw out that my guild was the only guild testing 3.0 for 16man raiding content back in the day. We gave several pages of feedback on bosses and raiding in general. Weeks before 3.0 release we told EAWare that HM/SM 16man Underlurker was unkillable cos of bugged mechanics. What they do?! -Make group-finder 16man mode to further increase the frustration of players, and on top of this it took them 3 months to fix it after release of the expansion.

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Levelling-raids.

 

These would take the place of the old trinity-required Story Mode Flashpoints, and serve the same broad purposes, IE, introducing people to endgame style group-content whilst scaling up the complexity of mechanics/difficulty as people advance and gain more passives/abilities.

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So fun fact:

 

If you look around a little bit, you can find SWTOR versions of Batman and Robin in the Zakuul cantina. While that's not exactly NEW news, the same room also has an active elevator in it; if you take it down a level, you'll find yourself in a room blocked off by the standard orange flashpoint/operations barrier.

 

Hope still exists, folks.

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So fun fact:

 

If you look around a little bit, you can find SWTOR versions of Batman and Robin in the Zakuul cantina. While that's not exactly NEW news, the same room also has an active elevator in it; if you take it down a level, you'll find yourself in a room blocked off by the standard orange flashpoint/operations barrier.

 

Hope still exists, folks.

 

I'd really like to know where you can find all those things ^^

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I'd really like to know where you can find all those things ^^

 

Ok, directions then:

 

1. travel to Zakuul. Head east, up the elevator, then south and back down another elevator to reach Undercity Plaza.

2. head west from there into the Platform 6 Cantina. "Nocturno" and "Drake Raven" (the Batman and Robin NPCs) are in the room at the north end of the cantina, along with several other NPCs who might be additional references (can't really tell, the lighting's not great in that room).

3. at the very north end of the same room is an elevator. Take it down to "Level 2," and you'll find yourself in a hallway leading to a circular room sealed off by what looks like an orange flashpoint/operation barrier. The room itself seems rather small, so this could simply be the entrance for a future "single-boss" op like Golden Fury, or it could be something similar to the FP/ops hangar bays found on fleet that lead to larger content by way of a shuttle or something.

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Any new ones at this rate.

 

Even if it was something to fall in line with KOTFE much like SoR has with Solo Revan and then ToS Revan.

 

Arcann + Vaylin as bosses and using high ranking knights of Zakuul / Skytroopers and what have you in a raid setting would be pretty cool. Even having to fight against a type of apparition of Valkorion or something.

 

Though who knows how the story will play out anyways. Here's to hoping theirs some sort of endgame content that will have people coming back to play again instead of the stale state the game is in with people complaining 24/7. Maybe that's too wishful thinking though...

 

So fun fact:

 

If you look around a little bit, you can find SWTOR versions of Batman and Robin in the Zakuul cantina. While that's not exactly NEW news, the same room also has an active elevator in it; if you take it down a level, you'll find yourself in a room blocked off by the standard orange flashpoint/operations barrier.

 

Hope still exists, folks.

 

Are you sure the elevator doesn't lead to the new "Operations teaching" thing or what ever that is supposed to ease you into end game content from solo content though. Wouldn't surprise me if that's what that is all about.

Edited by Lil_Fusion
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