Jedi Knight/guardian/defense build. Question and vent message all in one.

So, I finished my end game itemization (working on class armor tech frag farming- all enhancments, mods, armors, and augmentation kits done). I decided to give master FP's a try. I did not do any flashpoints pre 75 for fear of getting flamed for not knowing the map perfectly and or being underleveled. I thought being 75 would at least offset those issues a little. I've probably done 50 vet FP's in the last week by now trying to memorize the routes and making moves as to not aggro random mobs.

First question: Are there maps on master FP's that are not on veteran FP's? I swear it's like Hammer Station every other vet FP's. But then all the master's (6 so far) I've done have been levels I've not encountered at the vet level.

Second question: It's like, IF the healer takes * any * damage at any point in the FP, it seems like, "you're the worst ******** tank i've ever seen. Learn your character or uninstall." Is that normal on Vet and Master FPs? Like, nobody would die, but god forbid if random mobs give a little damage to your healer before we kill the mobs? I can't taunt everything- I have cooldown timers too. I wish I could spam challenging call and taunt!

Third question: Taunt not working? Challenging call ineffective? So far I have seen this twice. I've gotten the "tell that to our supposed tank." due to my failure (even though we did win eventually). Once on that 1st boss robot outside Korriban Incursion and the first doggies bosses on Mandalorian Raiders. I have re-read all my combat proficiency and searched google for an answer. I couldn't taunt either I think starting about halfway during battle- it was just grayed out unavailable. And if I did taunt the doggie, I would lose his attention after like 2 seconds. Then they'd jump back on my healer =(

Anyways, I love being the tank, and I want to be able to do master FP's like nothing- and not get flamed. I don't get mad if someone messes up- I just don't want to be the person that messed up. If nobody says anything but "gg ty fg" at the end I am happy. But I was wondering if anyone had any extra tips and had answers to the questions listed above. I want to get better at this game- though I feel as I have just touched the surface. I'm guildless, stronghold is collecting dust and 'Im scared to be a liability on starfighter- never once have tried it. One thing to master at a time in my opinion... Thanks for reading!

You will only get better at the game by playing it, so keep at it.

You are going to run into impatient, toxic morons while pugging runs, so don't sweat it. They all cry that there are no tanks in the game, they get somebody in there trying to learn who may want to tank future content for them, and instead of taking a minute to be cordial and helpful, just feel it better to dump on them to make sure they never want to tank again. Smart.

The biggest key to being a good tank, as you seem to be aware, is getting to know the instances. You have to know when the adds are going to spawn, and make sure you have your AOE threat generators off CD when that happens. (Force Sweep/Guardian Slash/AOE Taunt/Saber Reflect, etc) Have a Focus pool built up for it as well, so you can use all of those abilities in quick succession and then cap it off with a couple Cyclone Slashes. That is the biggest mistake beginner tanks make, is that they use all their abilties off cooldown on the boss, and have nothing up to deal with adds when they spawn. Dealing as much damage to the boss as you can is important, but not as important as having the tools you need to deal with a situation when it happens.This will come through time and practice.

Also, do not fall into the trap mindset of taunt solves everything. It will put you on top of the threat meter for 6 seconds, but if you have done nothing much to generate threat on those mobs in those 6 seconds, they will go right back to their previous target.To be honest once you get far enough in your journey as a tank, you won't really need taunt that much.

Also you can coach your healer a bit as well, the tendency for most beginning healers is to stand as far away from the boss as their range allows. When I am healing, I stand close to my tank (obviously behind the boss, you don't want to be eating cleaves), when adds spawn, they are going to run right for me. I can make my tank and DPS's life as easy as possible by standing close to the tank and boss, and that way the adds run right to where we want them as a group with little to no effort on the groups part. If I am standing way the hell out if BFE when adds spawn, then I am making it as hard as possible for my tank to get those adds grouped up under the boss.

Specifically for the instances you mentioned, for that first boss in Mando Raiders, the dogs are not really tauntable, that is the mechanic of that fight. As the tank you should take the boss to the side of the room away from the group, and just tank him there and do nothing with the dogs. The boss will freeze you occasionally, but your taunt will be up for every one, so once the freeze wears off, taunt him back to you. When the boss gets close to the dogs he buffs them, your DPS and healer have to deal with the dogs, focus fire one of them down first, and then the next one, then they help you with the boss. The dogs getting on the healer throughout that fight is a reality they have to deal with, and a healer getting mad at you because he has to use a DCD or kite a little because a dog is on him, doesn't understand that fight. As the tank just put a kill marker on a dog and then pull the fight and take the boss to the side of the room.

For the first droid boss, when the adds spawn I would use AOE taunt right away to make sure everything groups around you (do this on top of the boss to maximize splash damage), as soon as the adds are clustered, I would do a Force Sweep / Saber Reflect (if up) / Guardian Slash *with Warding Strike buff active) / and then Cyclone Slash 2 or 3 times. No way anyone should be pulling those off you. I would not normally recommend AOE taunt as the first global to use, but in that situation, I believe the adds are a little spread out, so starting with AOE attack abilities is likely to miss one or two as they will be out of range, The priority there is to get them grouped up around you.

One more note about that robot boss in Korriban Incursion, I believe he does have an autocannon channeled ability where he will turn to a random party member and fire, that you cannot taunt back or interrupt. All you can do in that situation is Guardian Leap to the target and guard swap to them. This will give them 25% damage reduction.

Keep at it, the game needs good tanks, and you are well on your way. Interest and dedication is the key to a good tank, the rest of it comes off the back of that.

Hello, going through the questions:

1. No, there are no different layouts between and vet FP and Master FP. Are you certain it is the same FP? Some bosses are different, but not all.

2. Depends, but healer can and do get hit. Some bosses do random attacks, so healer will get hit regardless. Bottom line, if you manage threat, healer should not be getting direct attacks.

3. Not everything is tauntable. Example, the hounds in mandalorian raiders are not tauntable, they attack randomly. Your role, as tank, is to take the boss to a corner. Keep him away from the hounds, so he does not buff their damage. And taunt him after he CCes you. Same for the robot boss in Korriban. Actually, that specific boss, the tank does not do much. Just AOE the adds, and stand out of the bad circles. Both fights require awake dps, which in my experience, tend to be the biggest problem in most master FPs.

I would also advice with the following:

1. I do not play Jug tank, but you want to start AOE with smash. Not sure for single target. Just do not start with taunt.

2. Need to know your rotation. You want to maximize your dps to ensure you maintain threat and maintain defensive procs.

3. Keep eye on health for everyone in the group. If someone other than you is getting attacked, taunt the attacker. If you are in doubt, AOE taunt.

4. Make sure you use guard. If you are in doubt, guard the healer. Generally, you want to guard best geared melee dps.

5. If you are not sure ask. No one will get upset if you mentioned you are not familiar with the fight or not sure about a mechanic. People might if you do not ask and mess up the fight. It does not hurt if you say in the beginning of the FP that you are new to tanking, or to that specific FP.

6. I would not run master FP for an FP I never ran on vet. Make sure you are at least familiar with the FP before you run it on master.

7. I probably would select what FPs I want to run, instead of random. I would start my way up one by one. Merdian (imp side in particular), Zeildrog, Umbra and Tython are difficult. Unless you are highly confident in your role, I would suggest not running them for the time being.

Jedi Knight/guardian/defense build. Question and vent message all in one.

 

So, I finished my end game itemization (working on class armor tech frag farming- all enhancments, mods, armors, and augmentation kits done). I decided to give master FP's a try. I did not do any flashpoints pre 75 for fear of getting flamed for not knowing the map perfectly and or being underleveled. I thought being 75 would at least offset those issues a little. I've probably done 50 vet FP's in the last week by now trying to memorize the routes and making moves as to not aggro random mobs.

 

First question: Are there maps on master FP's that are not on veteran FP's? I swear it's like Hammer Station every other vet FP's. But then all the master's (6 so far) I've done have been levels I've not encountered at the vet level.

 

Second question: It's like, IF the healer takes * any * damage at any point in the FP, it seems like, "you're the worst ******** tank i've ever seen. Learn your character or uninstall." Is that normal on Vet and Master FPs? Like, nobody would die, but god forbid if random mobs give a little damage to your healer before we kill the mobs? I can't taunt everything- I have cooldown timers too. I wish I could spam challenging call and taunt!

 

Third question: Taunt not working? Challenging call ineffective? So far I have seen this twice. I've gotten the "tell that to our supposed tank." due to my failure (even though we did win eventually). Once on that 1st boss robot outside Korriban Incursion and the first doggies bosses on Mandalorian Raiders. I have re-read all my combat proficiency and searched google for an answer. I couldn't taunt either I think starting about halfway during battle- it was just grayed out unavailable. And if I did taunt the doggie, I would lose his attention after like 2 seconds. Then they'd jump back on my healer =(

 

Anyways, I love being the tank, and I want to be able to do master FP's like nothing- and not get flamed. I don't get mad if someone messes up- I just don't want to be the person that messed up. If nobody says anything but "gg ty fg" at the end I am happy. But I was wondering if anyone had any extra tips and had answers to the questions listed above. I want to get better at this game- though I feel as I have just touched the surface. I'm guildless, stronghold is collecting dust and 'Im scared to be a liability on starfighter- never once have tried it. One thing to master at a time in my opinion... Thanks for reading!

My first, unfortunate, piece of advice is to get used to being yelled at. It still happens to me on the odd occasion, and most of the time, it's someone being a cranky crybaby.

But on to actual useful things. On your first question, the honest answer is, I'm not quite sure offhand, but I don't think so. If I have to hazard a guess, I'd say most people spam HS vet as an easy method to gear.

Second question, on AoE situations: Things your group should be doing include: dps on the small mobs first (rarely happens), if melee mobs are attacking the healer, they should run them to you (happens slightly more often). For things you can do: ensure your guardian slash is buffed with warding call, this makes it an aoe. Your next best aoe is force sweep. Of course, after that you have cyclone slash, BUT I tend to rotate in other, stronger abilities on prolonged aoe situations. cyclone slash spam, by itself, will not hold aggro on all mobs, all the time. Guardians are, indeed, a tad weak in the aoe department. Another huge helpful tip would be to take the high threat on reflect utility. Then you can leap --> sweep --> cyclone slash a couple times --> reflect --> aoe taunt if avaliable --> warding strike under a taunt window --> Guardian slash. This should be effective on most melee mobs. In your korriban incursion doggie situation, the dps and healers should bring the adds to you, swap/taunt/aoe to hold them as much as possible. If you're gearing, using power (lethal b) mods also helps aggro generation.

Question 3: I have had taunts ignored or felt like it was on the odd occasion.

Good luck, and if you need further advice feel free to ask or pm me

I'll just add that if you don't have 'target of target' enabled yet, do it asap. That way you'll know when you lose aggro on the boss.

Sometimes it's scripted (as in the korriban droid fight mentioned above) and the boss will be untauntable so you can't do anything. Other times (like with the mando dog boss) you lose the boss after he freezed you, but can immediately taunt him back.

I'll also second the recommendation to make sure you know all the vet versions of the flashpoints, or at least the story version. It's a lot easier to explain some of the mechanic heavy MM fights if you can just say 'like veteran, except ...' rather than do a full explanation. It also gives you an idea of which boss fights are more demanding than others, so you'll be prepared for a potential wipe.

I've been doing alot of DPS'ing as Jugganaut just to do an easy "ride along", while I observe what the tank is doing, that's how I learned 90% of the FP's strategies. Don't be afraid to join something because you'll 'be a liablility' it's just a game, and some toxic PPL are taking it WAAAAY to seriously. I defo know the scenario of being cussed out for just tanking and loosing aggro for a second. Or someone getting themselves killed by running away from me and out of sight - and suddenly it's MY fault

I totally agree that our 2 primary taunting abilites have some hit-n-miss results. Sometimes I simply dont get aggro. Still trying to figure that one out. (iRating 300) Specced right. Been tanking in different MMO's for 18 years :/

Chin up brother

I am very glad I read this thread. I have been working up an Immortal Jugg for the last month or so, and I am about to give up in despair. I have played SWTOR for a long time, I know the common FP's reasonably well from playing as Healer or DPS, but Tanking is driving me to raging frustration. I seem unable to do anything right. My toon is well-nigh unkillable, just hard as nails, but her DPS is pathetic, and she can't seem to hold aggro for ****.

Vulkk has a PVP guide for Immortal Jugg, and a PVE guide for one of the Jugg DPS specs, but no PVE guide for Immortal Jugg. There are some great Tanks in my guild, but none of them play Juggernaut.

If you're gearing, using power (lethal b) mods also helps aggro generation.

Much respect, Kendra, but this is not true except in the newest FP's where you're actually at level 75. All older FP's like the Mando Puppies and Hammer have you level capped to 70, and Power mods have nothing at all to do with your actual stats inside the FP. I documented this here -

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=978983

In any level capped FP, my Jugg has exactly 3393 Power regardless of her equipment. She can be buck naked with zero power, and it's set to 3393. My Merc can be fully geared with 7500 power, and it's set to 3393.

Endurance and Mastery are capped, but Power is actually set to a pre-determined number, whether it's higher or lower than that number. I would urge you all to have a look at that thread. I documented the numbers. I would also urge you to conduct your own experiments, and share your results.

Much respect, Kendra, but this is not true except in the newest FP's where you're actually at level 75. All older FP's like the Mando Puppies and Hammer have you level capped to 70, and Power mods have nothing at all to do with your actual stats inside the FP. I documented this here -

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=978983

In any level capped FP, my Jugg has exactly 3393 Power regardless of her equipment. She can be buck naked with zero power, and it's set to 3393. My Merc can be fully geared with 7500 power, and it's set to 3393.

 

Endurance and Mastery are capped, but Power is actually set to a pre-determined number, whether it's higher or lower than that number. I would urge you all to have a look at that thread. I documented the numbers. I would also urge you to conduct your own experiments, and share your results.

I think untrue is a bit harsh, as when I'm giving gearing advice I'm doing it under a condition of uncapped content. Which I grant you, is only what 1 operation. That is biowares decision.

And no, I have better things to do with my time than grind gear exclusively for content I have no issue completing as it is, that I have been doing for 8 years anyway. I have 3 complete sets for my guardians already. Biowares stupid and simultaneous inability to make new content or raise the level cap on old content to create an endgame at 75 means I'm supposed to carry around 6 gear sets per class to "optimize" every situation? Not my cup of tea.

If i was in a better mood I would go check the power thing, my understanding was that it was capped also. But like I said, I have no issues completing anything i do level capped with uncapped BiS gear, so its largely an irrelevant annoyance that my stats are artificially lowered because of BWs ineptitude and stupid decisions.

TLDR: yes, in capped content you can run 10k defense or whatever you get from unlettered warding mods and technically its "BiS" because both endurance and power are altered in capped content. I would have to change my enhancements too, because I went for the high endurance ones. That being said, I find the situation with the level cap too stupid to fathom and my gearing recommendation stands for uncapped content.

I’ll tell you right now, tanking is a thankless job. When you’re good at it, no one notices, when you’re mediocre or below, everyone notices and yells. Also, some people are just dumb and don’t know fights (examples being the two you mentioned – those dogs in Mando Raiders are untauntable, the fault is not yours at all, and the droid has a targeted attack that hits at random – there’s nothing you can do. In those cases, if you were yelled at, THEY were wrong).

Most people in this thread have covered the basics really well, but I do want to add, where your stand in a fight can be vital. This does require knowing some fights first, so you may hit some trial and error sadly, unless you have someone to guide you. If the boss has a knockback, put your back to a wall. If adds have a set spawn-in point, plant your *** right on top of it. Tanking is rough as hell at first because you’re stuck reacting after things instead of predicting those you know.

As a possibly unhelpful suggestion, a guild sometimes help. I mean, yes, you have to find the right one, but I learned tanking in a guild group, where they were all super helpful and guided me through the beginning roughness. This may not be the case for every guild, because some guilds are ******s too, but if you find the right one, it helps a ton.

As a side note, if you play on either Star Forge or Satele Shan, I’d be happy to run MM FPs with you as your healer while you learn. I’m a big girl and know how to use my DCDs so I don’t mind things looking at me.

Most people in this thread have covered the basics really well, but I do want to add, where your stand in a fight can be vital. This does require knowing some fights first, so you may hit some trial and error sadly, unless you have someone to guide you. If the boss has a knockback, put your back to a wall. If adds have a set spawn-in point, plant your *** right on top of it. Tanking is rough as hell at first because you’re stuck reacting after things instead of predicting those you know.

Just to expound on this, it is almost never a bad thing to face the boss away from the group and have your back to a collidable object, especially if you don't know the fights. I don't think there are any boss cleaves that have to be shared across group members, except for HM Nefra which isn't a flashpoint boss. Yes, there are times when you need to get out of an ground based AoE, even as a tank, but always practice facing the boss away from the group, especially when it DOESN'T matter. The more you practice that, the more habitual it becomes, and it will be second nature when it really does matter.

I think untrue is a bit harsh, as when I'm giving gearing advice I'm doing it under a condition of uncapped content. Which I grant you, is only what 1 operation. That is biowares decision.

My sincere apologies, Kendra. I didn't mean to be snarky with you, and I'm truly sorry it came off that way. I meant no disrespect.