I have a relic question to the healers, mainly sage/sorc healers. I just bought the DG Boundless Ages relic, the plus 350 power clicky one. The question is for my other slot relic. I was using the matrix cube till recently when I decided to try my battle master one. 103power is great even with the wasted expertise on it.

Now should I be looking to get the War Hero one and Elite War Hero one soon, or should I go with one of those DG healer proc ones. 505 health over 3 secs every 20 secs sounds good but it will be mostly be overhealing anyways. What's best?

Just had the same conversation with healers in my guild and this is what we came up with:

 

TL;DR - keep WH, get EWH when it comes out (120pwr each)

 

We felt that the activated power one could definitely be of use, giving you on demand burst. However, healing that actually requires use of such a boost is already chaotic enough and adding one more thing to watch out for (the cd) may be onerous. Furthermore, if you only use it on burst phases you may only utilise it once or twice per fight, not giving you much in terms of power increase. It could be a bit better if used constantly on cd but again that is something you may need to watch out for and in fact it may not always be suitable to do so as it may come off cd when the fight is not healing intensive.

 

The proc relic is just bad. Sure the extra healing is nice, and works great if you are just healing a tank but you are never just healing a tank. You cannot control when the relic will proc. I have had it proc on CC'd targets, DPS I was just topping up with Rejuvenate (which was already overheal) and it is even worse with Salvation as it can easily proc on the 1 person standing in it that is already at full health.

 

Matrix Cube is worse than WH now and will be even worse with EWH.

 

Simply put, I will take the constant increase to power (240 points for Pete's sake!!!) any day. I have Force Potency for burst and I don't even use triage adrenals, never needed that much burst.

 

For DPS the power/proc combo is now apparently BiS but that is not your question.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Darth_Dreselus

Ya i try to use the clicky power relic as much as I can. Figured the proc relic was crap too. I hope they update the matrix cube again and increase the stats. They need to keep updating those every few times they add new relics I think. Puts the drive to get the datacrons in people

The proc relic is amazing in terms of throughput numbers, but the lack of control is its downfall. If it only proc'd on targets at low health, it would be awesome and definitely the way to go. The healing it contributes is quite a bit more than what you get from the PvP relics. It's just…uncontrollable.

 

What's interesting is the activated DG relics now contribute more power over time (when used on CD) than even the elite war hero relics. So, current best in slot would be the activated power and the EWH static power relics.

The proc relic is just bad. Sure the extra healing is nice, and works great if you are just healing a tank but you are never just healing a tank. You cannot control when the relic will proc. I have had it proc on CC'd targets, DPS I was just topping up with Rejuvenate (which was already overheal) and it is even worse with Salvation as it can easily proc on the 1 person standing in it that is already at full health.

 

Quoting for truth. I'd be perfectly happy with a proc relic that would always heal me (a sage), or heal the lowest party member. But a proc'ing on a random person who may or may not need healing is just stupid.

 

EDIT: I feel the same about the tanking proc relics. They sound great, but I'd rather a tank equip a clicky to use as an additional cool down.

 

There are certain fights where a clicky relic would be helpful, mostly where you can expect large raid-wide damage and you want salvation to heal as much as possible. For example, the burn phases on the 1st and 4th bosses in TfB, maybe the last boss in LI (although that place is pretty freaking easy now!). For those, dropping salvation and hitting your relic and healing adrenal could be the difference between killing the boss with everyone alive or a wipe.

Edited November 26, 2012 by NoFishing

My take for heals is always on-use + static Power relics.

 

If you're in near-BiS gear you're definitely not short on sustained HPS for all encounters in the game. The on-use relic gives you an appreciable oh-crap button for tough situation, which I personally find much more useful.

 

As a biochem, popping an adrenal + relic and getting 805 power is quite lulzy.

Definitely one DG power and one WH power for me. You don't lose a lot of power, and you gain on demand burst.

 

I made it through the NiM Keph trandoshan phase without hitting relic and adrenal a few times, but it was vastly easier when I bumped up my healing output towards the end of that phase. Similarly with Keph up until 60%.

 

The only time I like the proc relic at all is when I'm in a Huttball. While I'm running around I spam the little instant heals on myself (rejuv, cleanse) and the proc's static increase is better than a percent in that situation. I didn't care enough to ever buy a WH proc relic though, this was ages ago when I had the proc from KP.

Edited November 27, 2012 by shadowflit

Bodyguard here - I currently still use Matrix cube, the +AIM is much more valuable than onclick or passive +120 power. I use that with a EWH for the other slot. It also allows me to get more power from not having to have as much crit on other pieces.

the +AIM is much more valuable

 

You're claiming that 66 Aim and 27 Crit are more valuable than 120 Power. Even with the 9% additional Aim from talents, you're claiming that 72 Aim and 27 Crit provide more healing than 120 power. Even with a remarkably high 1.1 coefficient of value for Aim (i.e. you value Aim 10% higher than you do crit or power), that's ~106 points compared to 120. The Matrix Cube is only on par with Columi tier gear. Anything Rakata, Campaign, or DG is going to be better.

While I agree with what Aurojiin has said about the on-click power relic, the on-click power relic is better only if you use it immediately when it is off cooldown (which in some fights is useless) as this is the only way for the relic to provide a higher amount of power in the fight.

 

The true answer lies with what Darth_Dreselus mentioned his healers spoke about saying the static power is the best in slot no matter the class. If someone was to need bust healing the adrenal is more than enough for any situation and so I would never truly recommend getting the on-click power relic.

 

The passive power is nice on the relic and has made it a viable and the best choice for DPS but it still is not something worthwhile for healers as healing is very situation based and can't reliably be predicted all the time. For my healers (I have one of each) I use the static power relics as they offer the best numbers in the long run and if a situation arises where I need burst healing I will use an adrenal and it has been able to get me through any rough spots.

Kitru - a couple questiions.

 

First of all, is the agent matrix cube worth using, or is it still far outclassed by DG/EWH? What if I despise PVP and only have battlemaster and I'm really looking for an excuse to never set foot in a warzone again outside of leveling?

 

Second, I know for most DPS BIS is a clicky power and a proc relic, but could EWH and the proc relic be better if you still use the clicky relic right before the pull? That is, you use your power relic, equip your EWH, and then attack the boss. You get 1 use of your power relic, as opposed to 2 or 3, but you get the static increase to power for the whole fight. Obviously it wouldn't be good for fights that have burst phases like Fabricator, or Kephess the Undying, but I'm wondering if it could be useful for bosses with fewer burn phases.

Edited January 3, 2013 by MantorokTwelve

First of all, is the agent matrix cube worth using, or is it still far outclassed by DG/EWH? What if I despise PVP and only have battlemaster and I'm really looking for an excuse to never set foot in a warzone again outside of leveling?

 

If you despise PvP, the Matrix Cube isn't *too* bad as a passive stat chunk. It's not optimal, but it's not going to hamstring you all that much, especially if you're not up for clicking the DG use relic.

 

Second, I know for most DPS BIS is a clicky power and a proc relic, but could EWH and the proc relic be better if you still use the clicky relic right before the pull? That is, you use your power relic, equip your EWH, and then attack the boss. You get 1 use of your power relic, as opposed to 2 or 3, but you get the static increase to power for the whole fight. Obviously it wouldn't be good for fights that have burst phases like Fabricator, or Kephess the Undying, but I'm wondering if it could be useful for bosses with fewer burn phases.

 

It depends on the length of the fight.

 

The average power provided equation for the DG relic is: (47 x + 350 * 30 * (1 + x / 120)) / x; where x is the duration of the fight in seconds (I could throw down with some modulus math in there to account for only perfect divisions of the 120 sec duration, but it's not a big enough issue imo).

 

The average power equation for your proposed EWH + 1 DG proc is: (120 x + 350 * 25) / x; where x is the duration of the fight (I'm assuming 5 seconds of wasted uptime waiting for the tank to pull and swapping the relic out).

 

Throw the two of those ((47 x + 350 * 30 * (1 + x / 120)) / x = (120 x + 350 * 25) / x) into Wolfram Alpha (too lazy for algebra that can't be done in my head today) and you learn that if a fight is any longer than 120 seconds, you get more out of the DG relic. While this isn't *exactly* true in practice (the DG relic isn't providing 87.5 power averaged over 120 seconds, it's providing 350 for 30 seconds every 120 so it jumps), unless a fight is both exceptionally short *and* ends right before the proc relic comes off of CD, the DG relic is going to provide more.

 

Since a vast majority of Ops fights are longer than 2 minutes, it's better to just say that, no, it wouldn't be better.

It is also important to remember that healing isn't about absolute maximum throughput. If a fight requires X total healing you don't need to put out x+50%. Healing is about reacting to incoming damage and keeping everyone alive.

 

To that end, I like one DG Clicky and one EWH Power on my Sawbones. Good constant throughput and free on demand burst when I need it. Most fights I don't need to use it but when I do, its awesome. I am against the proc ones for the reasons stated above. I lost all interest in them when I saw my Sage proc one on a CCed target.

 

Now, yes arguments can be made that healers who don't have to heal can add DPS and all that sort of stuff but really: use what works for you. If you want controllable burst, use 1x EWH and 1x DG clicky power relics. If you like "set and forget" power, use 2x EWH power relics.

only downside to the DG relic is that to get a slight edge in overall healing you have to use it close to off CD... which may be a waste if no burst healing is needed. If you only use it for burst situations, which may not be even required, you lose in overall performance compared to WH relics. So I keep 1 on myself, and if I see that the fight requires it (I expect I need to oh-**** heal), I'll switch my WH relic for the DG... but it rarely happens.

Actually you lose only about 12 static bonus healing if you wear DG relic instead of EWH. This is not that much. and in return you get nice burst.

Actually you lose only about 12 static bonus healing if you wear DG relic instead of EWH. This is not that much. and in return you get nice burst.

 

true dat... both is viable, and I think in the end it comes down to personal decision. For myself, I have a rakata power adrenal for burst/oh-sht situations, and it should be enough if the team knows what it is doing.

I usually run a dg click/EWH when in my usual ops group because the throughput healing is more than enough on a team that knows the fights and the extra burst when needed makes my job very easy. I will switch out the DG for a second WH if running pug ops where everyone takes damage due to reckless/careless play style or if we are making a speed run. When running difficult content with a group that knows the fights and plays them correctly the dg goes back in. There just isn't any need for that constant static power increase of a second pvp relic when your dps don't pull aggro, stand in red circles or knock down cc'd enemies. All you are left with is tank healing and party burst. Edited January 11, 2013 by nninjacoupe

It depends on the length of the fight.

 

So to amuse myself, I went and started playing with Wolfram Alpha a bit more and decided to get the "true" form of the given equations to determine what the actual breakpoints are. The plot itself tells a better story of it that I'm going to (each blue line represents the average power contributed per second by the relevant load out at x seconds; each blue line represents a 120 second time frame as an easy section marker), but, the basic conclusion is that, after 4 minutes, the use relic averages out with better uptime unless you're right on the edge of a CD, after 6 minutes, the use relic is universally better with the exception of a *very* tiny period of time where it's largely a break even just before the 8 minute marker, and, for anything longer than 8 minutes, the use relic is simply outright better.

 

The basic conclusion is that, for short fights, it can honestly be considered something of a wash: healers aren't like to use it on CD to they're almost never going to actually get the given values. For longer fights, it's going to be better over the long term if you actually use it on or close to CD. Of course, none of this calculation of average contribution is going to be all that useful if you only keep the use relic around for times when you need some burst healing: pretty much every boss in TfB has a burst healing phase of some kind at some point (Writhing Horror's, Kephess's, and TfB's burn phases; DG after the electronuke and after Force Leech expires; DDR boss after Disinfection).

 

It's a lot like the decision you have to make as a tank between the tanking use relics and the passive/proc ones: even if you don't use the use relics on CD every time, sometimes the one time you need the extra survivability attributed to the relic is justification enough, especially if you don't really *need* the constant benefits of the passive relic for all of the other times.

Maths stuff

 

I'll take your word for it, all I see is some lines which make no sense to me . Still gonna use 2 EWH's because it is simply easier.