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Are Sith really evil?


CupOHemlock's Avatar


CupOHemlock
02.06.2012 , 05:30 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by owenthorn View Post
jedi and sith are the EXACT same, they turn their backs on suffering and whatever, if it is not in their interest to do something about it
Whoa! I have been helping the suffering from level 1-50 and since then. I object to your blanket statement and substitute my own belief system, which clearly trumps your flawed view of all things Star Wars related.

Bladedheart's Avatar


Bladedheart
02.06.2012 , 05:31 PM | #12
Dunno how a got a second post in here. My bad.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

The Ethereal Blade on The Harbinger, actively recruiting, see site for details.

RowanThursday's Avatar


RowanThursday
02.06.2012 , 05:38 PM | #13
What's 'evil'? Two-dimensional definition.

I've seen plenty of dark side choices that could be pretty well defined as morally *good* from my stand point; letting a corrupt politician's corruption go undiscovered because you believe they genuinely *are* doing good now, and it would do no good to disrupt that for the sake of abstract justice, or putting a blaster bolt through the brain of an imperial prison vivisectionist... or several more, for that matter.

Generally speaking, the Sith Empire's moral philosophy is further from the one 21st century human culture aspires to as 'right', than the Republic's philosophy is.

The Sith philosophy is about embracing passion, letting it fuel and drive you, whereas the Jedi philosophy seems to be largely about denying, channeling, restricting that.

Now, from several points of view, the Jedi philosophy's just plain *wrong*- passion is a far greater fundamental of human nature than compromise and control.

To a certain extent, it feels as if Jedi thought is influenced to a massive amount by fear of the Dark Side- not so much that they deny that a Sith could be influenced and driven by positive passions, to be a great force for good... and, after all, wasn't it *love* for his son and *hate* for the man who'd destroyed 90% of his whole life and was just about to destroy the last 10% that gave Anakin the strength to kill Palpatine? The Emperor was killed by a Sith using his passion and making what would almost certainly be a dark side choice- and I doubt anyone would call that an evil act, even though "Kill the old man" would probably be at least 50 DS points in game.

The Jedi's fear seems to be the- quite understandable- one that it tends to be the stronger, more violent passions, that predominate... so they try to block out and screen off *all* passion, even including those that could be to their benefit, and for a good cause, to stop the dam from bursting, and letting emotion rule them.

Neither philosophy is good or evil. The Jedi philosophy is appallingly repressive and self-destructive- look at Anakin again. Had the force been balanced, had Palpatine's Sith teachings been well-meaning rather than self-serving, and had Mace Windu not been so much of a bully, Anakin could well have grown up to become an amazingly gifted and heroic light-side Sith, if people had taught him to *moderate* his passions, rather than shut them up and be ashamed of admitting they existed.
"... Pointless meatbag bickering."
-- HK-55

krimsonkrow's Avatar


krimsonkrow
02.06.2012 , 05:38 PM | #14
Take a gander at the Sith code real quick will ya?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

This says nothing about rage, anger, fear or anything of that nature really. This seems to me more like a creed, declaration, whathaveyou of someone who refuses to be enslaved. This could mean by the jedi, by their emotions, whatever, but you get my point.
"Thats not the smell of fear.....Its an angry wookiee with a lazer sword!"

ryathal's Avatar


ryathal
02.06.2012 , 05:39 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by CupOHemlock View Post
Whoa! I have been helping the suffering from level 1-50 and since then. I object to your blanket statement and substitute my own belief system, which clearly trumps your flawed view of all things Star Wars related.
really? because my JK quest mentioned ignoring those twilek until they actually had something the jedi needed...

Ziggoratt's Avatar


Ziggoratt
02.06.2012 , 05:41 PM | #16
Alright, I'm hearing a lot of adversity towards the Sith. I'll agree that they have corrupt leaders, yes... But let me offer this as a follow-up question?

Are the Jedi a necessarily good organization?

HanzoV's Avatar


HanzoV
02.06.2012 , 05:43 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by krimsonkrow View Post
Take a gander at the Sith code real quick will ya?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

This says nothing about rage, anger, fear or anything of that nature really. This seems to me more like a creed, declaration, whathaveyou of someone who refuses to be enslaved. This could mean by the jedi, by their emotions, whatever, but you get my point.
True, though it starts with "Peace is a lie" so it stands to reason they'd prefer perpetual war.

I don't believe that all Sith are evil, especially in this time-line, but at the very least, most seem self-centered and only concerned with their own goals and ambitions. Which would not make them all that different than people we know in real life. I'd say the difference is what they are willing to do to meet there goals -- murder, steal, destroy?
TORtanic indeed. It's just like that movie that was hugely successful and made boatloads of money.
This is an MMO. Whether you play with or see the other players is irrelevant to that fact.

krimsonkrow's Avatar


krimsonkrow
02.06.2012 , 05:45 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzoV View Post
True, though it starts with "Peace is a lie" so it stands to reason they'd prefer perpetual war.

I don't believe that all Sith are evil, especially in this time-line, but at the very least, most seem self-centered and only concerned with their own goals and ambitions.
I'm not sure that "Peace is a lie" is actually a bad thing to start with, it's not pretty, but it's honest. I see it as more of a reality then a declaration of war.
"Thats not the smell of fear.....Its an angry wookiee with a lazer sword!"

Marak's Avatar


Marak
02.06.2012 , 05:46 PM | #19
Nothing in the Sith code says "Kill all the things!"

I agree with the Spartan assessment. The Sith govern their world view through a "Might is Right" lens with the direction and ambition being left to the individual.


Evil is also very hard to define. Evil is really just the breakdown of morality and morality is really just the societal standard of right vs wrong. To a Spartan it wasn't really all that wrong to get downright genocidal on their enemies.

Was Darth Nihilus "evil"? Dude was just hungry, imo. Sure he was the harbinger of wanton destruction, but his motivations were pure. No more different than you eating that tasty burger.

Was Darth Malak evil? I would say yes. His modus operandi was deceit and betrayal for personal gain.


So I would say no. Sith are not intrinsically evil.

Ziggoratt's Avatar


Ziggoratt
02.06.2012 , 05:46 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by RowanThursday View Post
What's 'evil'? Two-dimensional definition.

I've seen plenty of dark side choices that could be pretty well defined as morally *good* from my stand point; letting a corrupt politician's corruption go undiscovered because you believe they genuinely *are* doing good now, and it would do no good to disrupt that for the sake of abstract justice, or putting a blaster bolt through the brain of an imperial prison vivisectionist... or several more, for that matter.

Generally speaking, the Sith Empire's moral philosophy is further from the one 21st century human culture aspires to as 'right', than the Republic's philosophy is.

The Sith philosophy is about embracing passion, letting it fuel and drive you, whereas the Jedi philosophy seems to be largely about denying, channeling, restricting that.

Now, from several points of view, the Jedi philosophy's just plain *wrong*- passion is a far greater fundamental of human nature than compromise and control.

To a certain extent, it feels as if Jedi thought is influenced to a massive amount by fear of the Dark Side- not so much that they deny that a Sith could be influenced and driven by positive passions, to be a great force for good... and, after all, wasn't it *love* for his son and *hate* for the man who'd destroyed 90% of his whole life and was just about to destroy the last 10% that gave Anakin the strength to kill Palpatine? The Emperor was killed by a Sith using his passion and making what would almost certainly be a dark side choice- and I doubt anyone would call that an evil act, even though "Kill the old man" would probably be at least 50 DS points in game.

The Jedi's fear seems to be the- quite understandable- one that it tends to be the stronger, more violent passions, that predominate... so they try to block out and screen off *all* passion, even including those that could be to their benefit, and for a good cause, to stop the dam from bursting, and letting emotion rule them.

Neither philosophy is good or evil. The Jedi philosophy is appallingly repressive and self-destructive- look at Anakin again. Had the force been balanced, had Palpatine's Sith teachings been well-meaning rather than self-serving, and had Mace Windu not been so much of a bully, Anakin could well have grown up to become an amazingly gifted and heroic light-side Sith, if people had taught him to *moderate* his passions, rather than shut them up and be ashamed of admitting they existed.
I applaud this post. Thank you for seeing straight into the heart of what I believe