Where does it say tanks start the battles? Who made up that rule? If it is based on gear, if one has gear as a healer buts wants to fight or attack first go for it. Isn't that why the group finder matches level or boost who's needed automatic. why would it matter is someone wants to attack first or not Isn't it about killing the same bad guys together who cares who shoots first?

Tanks have skills and gear to soak and mitigate incoming damage. They're supposed to held the mobs attention (aggro) so they don't hit anyone else. Pulling first helps them establishing and keeping aggro and perform their role. Bosses or a nasty group of mobs can completely destroy a dps or a healer in a few seconds.

 

This doesn't matter at all in tactical flashpoints that are built to be completed by any combination of players (although if there's a tank in the group and he wants to tank why not let him/her practice). In every other type of content that's built around the "trinity" (tank/heal/damage), it's pretty much vital.

 

Storymode flashpoints while leveling are very forgiving so you can get away with a lot, but there's no reason to if you have any intention of playing endgame content (and why not?). Bad habit and also rude.

if the players are good, you can do whatever you like, the problem is that most are bads with horrible reactions and few knowledge of the game and their class:

 

-healers unable to heal more than one target and take any pressure

-dps unable to do decent damage or use dcds

-tanks unable to take back aggro spread on multiple targets

 

this leads eventually to a wipe, frustration and disbands

And if I tank(usually don't pug,) and a dps pulls first then I whisper the healer to let him die then the rest of us will kill the mobs. He/she wants to keep doing it keep letting them die. I tend to rush thru fp's but if he wants to rage quit that's fine by me dps backfill is quick with a heal and tank in the group already. On the ignore list that dps goes

Where does it say tanks start the battles? Who made up that rule?

 

Good question. I don'Ät think that you'll get any answer, because I fear that this rule is as old as the "Trinity" concept is ... Or even as old as MMORPGs are.

Where does it say tanks start the battles? Who made up that rule? If it is based on gear, if one has gear as a healer buts wants to fight or attack first go for it. Isn't that why the group finder matches level or boost who's needed automatic. why would it matter is someone wants to attack first or not Isn't it about killing the same bad guys together who cares who shoots first?

 

You must have run too much Kuat Drive Yards, or Tactical FPs in general, otherwise you wouldn't be asking this question...

 

Tank start battles because otherwise they have to struggle much more to do their job - holding as many enemies as possible on themselves.

My rule if I'm a Tank and a DPS pulls before me is, "You pull it? Fine, you Tank it". If the DPS survives, kudos to him. If he dies, his fault for not letting me do my job.

 

Gear has nothing to do with this "rule", as you call it - I'd call it common sense, myself - it's a matter of abilities. As a DPS you have abilities to kill stuff, not soak damage, and those abilities who have that function are weaker than the corresponding Tank ones.

Thus, if a DPS starts a pull in a context where proper role trinity is required (I.E. everywhere but in Tactical FPs) he has serious chances to die, unless the Healer overworks to keep him alive and the Tank does the same to gain the enemies' attention.

 

It's a matter of being polite. Why would you want to force the others to overwork - which is what always happens when someone doesn't let the otehrs do what they should be doing - to pull through, when just by letting everyone do their work you can go on easily?

 

Also, GF DOESN'T boost gear afaik, that only happens in either Kuat Drive Yards - Tactical FP you can basically go through with a blindfold as long as you know what you're doing - or in SM Ops, and in Ops if a DPS pulls - I would think a Healer would have enough common sense not to - it's almost certainly going to be a wipe because of how Ops are made: tons of incoming damage to mitigate, plus mechanics to follow, plus severe timings to kill bosses.

 

TL;DR: Tanks start pulls because it's their job, aswell as running their part of mechanics.

DPS kill stuff from weaker to stronger because it's their job, aswell as try not to stand in enemy AoEs and run their part of mechanics.

Healers keep everyone alive because it's their job, aswell as running their part of mechanics, once again.

If one of those doesn't allow the others to do their part, either the group wipes or the others have to overwork to compensate.

 

EDIT: Just noticed my post may sound quite harsh... It wasn't my intention to berate the OP, nor anyone else for that matter.

I just believe the best way to say something is, well... To say it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Cox_The_Beast

This question is an example of why x12 hurts the game. It is also creating tanks who don't know they have chosen a Tank discipline so they enter an fp and don't know they are supposed to pull. Honestly swtor should give a link to dulfy in their tutorials. Learn your role before joining an fp or op. 5 times today I ran HM fp as a mara and spent the entire time pulling off tank because he insisted on guarding the operative healer. I actually just got told I didn't know how to play because I tried explaining threat to a Tank. Edited June 6, 2015 by Matt_Comtois

Please let this be a troll post

Where does it say tanks start the battles?

Because the first one who aggros a group has the initial aggro, so if a tank attacks first, he only has to worry about DPS pulling aggro from him and can keep his mass taunt for another situation. Won't eloborate further than that since I'm not convinced the OP is not a troll.

if the players are good, you can do whatever you like, the problem is that most are bads with horrible reactions and few knowledge of the game and their class:

 

-healers unable to heal more than one target and take any pressure

-dps unable to do decent damage or use dcds

-tanks unable to take back aggro spread on multiple targets

 

this leads eventually to a wipe, frustration and disbands

 

Lol no. Doing "whatever you like" in an HM flashpoint will get you kicked if you make things harder for the rest of the group by pulling first. It's funny that you call people bads while advocating the kind of behavior that most people attribute to bads.

Please let this be a troll post

 

We both know thats not the case.

Lol no. Doing "whatever you like" in an HM flashpoint will get you kicked if you make things harder for the rest of the group by pulling first. It's funny that you call people bads while advocating the kind of behavior that most people attribute to bads.

 

what i mean is not literally whatever you like, is that if i pull a trash pack or a boss on a dps or even on a healer and:

 

the tank doesn't go drama queen mode, but jumps in and does his job or,

the healer pops a cd instead of doing nothing or casting the wrong thing or,

the dps jumps in following kill order and using a bit of CC,

 

nobody will die..i never whined over a dps pulling while tanking..just jump and taunt, or if i heal i just keep the guy alive..eventually let him drop to save myself or the tank, but there's huge room of maneuvering between a dps pulling and a wipe..

 

and anyway, the overwork concept is correct..

what i mean is not literally whatever you like, is that if i pull a trash pack or a boss on a dps or even on a healer and:

 

the tank doesn't go drama queen mode, but jumps in and does his job or,

the healer pops a cd instead of doing nothing or casting the wrong thing or,

the dps jumps in following kill order and using a bit of CC,

 

nobody will die..i never whined over a dps pulling while tanking..just jump and taunt, or if i heal i just keep the guy alive..eventually let him drop to save myself or the tank, but there's huge room of maneuvering between a dps pulling and a wipe..

 

and anyway, the overwork concept is correct..

 

Pull once, I'll do everything I can to pick up the mobs and save the group.

 

Pull twice (especially obviously pulling), I'll let you die and do everything I can to kick you or get you killed repeatedly.

 

It's that simple.

 

For tactical - I don't care who pulls, just don't expect others to save you if you run off and pull stuff you can't handle on your own.

Edited June 7, 2015 by DawnAskham

Tank's main objective is to ensure group safety.

If group don't follow the rules - it's tank decision not to save idiots.

Simple as that.

If you want to kill your character - pull. Just don't blame tank for not doing his job. Becouse you obviously not doing your job properly.

 

Tanks is THE ONLY ONE PERSON who pulls.

Thats THE LAW.

When I see a dps jumping in first, I imediatly alt tab and watch cat videos on youtube

what i mean is not literally whatever you like, is that if i pull a trash pack or a boss on a dps or even on a healer and:

 

the tank doesn't go drama queen mode, but jumps in and does his job or,

the healer pops a cd instead of doing nothing or casting the wrong thing or,

the dps jumps in following kill order and using a bit of CC,

 

nobody will die..i never whined over a dps pulling while tanking..just jump and taunt, or if i heal i just keep the guy alive..eventually let him drop to save myself or the tank, but there's huge room of maneuvering between a dps pulling and a wipe..

 

and anyway, the overwork concept is correct..

 

So in that situation your have literally made everyone else's job more difficult for no good reason.

 

1) The tank has to waste an AoE taunt early just to get the enemies off of you, thereby making it harder for him to hold agro/perform situation control as the fight continues. Speaking of situation control, since you pulled first the tank didn't get an opportunity to control the positioning of enemies and group them for AoE or CC the more difficult ones before they take a chunk out of everyone.

2) The healer wastes a cooldown keeping your health out of the danger zone and then doesn't have it when needed to help the tank against the stronger enemies that you didn't give him a chance to control.

 

So yeah, if you pull and cause a wipe you can either accept the blame for causing that problem or you can try to deflect in onto others, claiming they didn't react in the perfect way.

 

TL;DR =

If you want to kill your character - pull. Just don't blame tank for not doing his job. Becouse you obviously not doing your job properly.

Agree with those who say just don't do it (as in pull before the tank). Yeah, good players can pick up the slack for you, but why should they? If its your average HM Flashpoint, odds are I'd rather be DPSing and am only tanking or healing to make the damn thing pop, so if you're going to just make things even more difficult for me, damn right I'm gonna be pissed and probably let you die or votekick you.

 

If you want to pull first so bad, roll a tank and do it. I'm sure you'll get pops very quickly, so no issues there.

 

nobody will die..i never whined over a dps pulling while tanking..just jump and taunt, or if i heal i just keep the guy alive..eventually let him drop to save myself or the tank, but there's huge room of maneuvering between a dps pulling and a wipe..

 

and anyway, the overwork concept is correct..

 

i'll enlight what some missed apparently.

and come on, it's trash mobs..even the new ops have easier trash then in the past.. the only ''dangerous'' mobs are the zealot in tos and the repair droid exploding in rav

again what i'm trying to say is that it's not that game breaking if a dps pulls a group especially if he pulls following the kill order..chain pulling is another story but can still be done if the tanks starts in that case..

also during ops, the tanks start but you are not waiting more than a fraction of a second before unloading..i mean, ours counts 3-2-1 and pulls, once dps see he's moving they are critting on the boss and those who didn't precast anything back between 2 and 1...

I guess it comes down to the idea that just because you can get away with it....doesn't make it right. For many reasons, pulling first (w/o being asked to) is generally perceived as placing yourself above the group...and this is the exact opposite of what a tank holds dear.

 

And, if you're talking about a sm group, what about the people that are there to learn the proper mechanics and ordering for hm content? You have effectively taken that away by your impatience. In a bubble, one can make a decent argument for pulling first. But, this is not a bubble. And...right or wrong...my general perception of those who do this in ops and hm's is that they just want everyone to see how cool they are. Further, this behavior is usually exhibited in other ways along the line. Is it fatal to do it? Nah. But, I would strongly recommend you reserve that tactic for your own guild runs. It's hard enough to get a pug group to function effectively without adding that fluff.

 

I guess the most important question to ask is why do you want to pull first so badly? Sounds like you need to roll a tank if it's something that truly makes or breaks your gaming experience. On the other hand, if your gaming experience is based on irritating others and grandstanding...then by all means....continue. Just let me know before we start so one of us can leave.

2) The healer wastes a cooldown keeping your health out of the danger zone and then doesn't have it when needed to help the tank against the stronger enemies that you didn't give him a chance to control.

 

So yeah, if you pull and cause a wipe you can either accept the blame for causing that problem or you can try to deflect in onto others, claiming they didn't react in the perfect way.

 

TL;DR =

 

If I'm healing and Chuk Norris leaps in and pulls a mob of say 7, 8 enemies, I just let him die. No regrets. I heal him and immediately 6 or 7 of those are aiming for me. Screw that. If I'm up for being focused down by a bunch of unfriendlies, I queue for WZs as healer, lol

Edited June 8, 2015 by wainot-keel

If I'm healing and Chuk Norris leaps in and pulls a mob of say 7, 8 enemies, I just let him die. No regrets. I heal him and immediately 6 or 7 of those are aiming for me. Screw that. If I'm up for being focused down by a bunch of unfriendlies, I queue for WZs as healer, lol

 

that's what i do

And some of these posts explain perfectly why tanks don't want to pug, and people end up complaining about long queues for non-tactical flashpoints. Just let the tank do his or her job, and do yours, don't make it harder for everyone. It doesn't matter if you think the tank or healer should be able to make up for your mistakes, why turn what can be a smooth run into a complete pain in the backside for the other people you are playing with?

Original poster's not responded at all, pretty sure this was either a troll or someone who wanted to rant and never checked again. I'm not sure there is a point in explaining things further (if OP disagrees, please post and let us know if you are confused here).

again what i'm trying to say is that it's not that game breaking if a dps pulls a group especially if he pulls following the kill order..

Sounds to me like you never played a tank before then. Pulling before the tank is insulting, it makes his job harder just because the DPS could not wait a second. (The exception would be bad tanks who take a long time to pull but then you should talk about it in chat instead of pulling yourself.)

Pulling before the tank is identical to not running out of circles so that healers have more to do or knocking back mobs from melee DPS so they are out of range. This does nothing but create more work for that player and has no benefit to the group.

 

Sure, you can still finish the flashpoint but it just creates a hostile atmosphere when to provoke the tank like that. After all, this is PvE, not PvP, so try to work together and don't annoy each other.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Jerba

If I may give an example as to why I think tank should pull first.

 

Korriban HM theres a mara pulling before my jugg. Every time I jump in and control aggro, until he decides to do it on the pull at the bottom of the ramp (guardian, sent, consular and 2 droid) and decide to let him die. However, even though I said I wont be helping the healer starts healing this pulling dps and guess who has ALL the aggro? I ended up jumping in to save the op healer because this mara was pathetic at aggro control.

 

it's not that game breaking if a dps pulls a group especially if he pulls following the kill order.

 

If you want to pull first and kill your dps thats fine by me, but to pull first with a dps and make no attempt to get aggro is going to kill that nice, polite healer who is carrying you. If dps want to pull, at least control aggro when you do.

Edited June 8, 2015 by BobFredJohn