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Exploits and Galactic Command


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

As we move towards the expansion launch, I wanted to post a reminder about our exploit policy and to talk about how it will work with Galactic Command. First, a general reminder on what to do if you think you have discovered an exploit:

  • Discontinue the questionable action immediately.
  • Send a private message to myself or Tait Watson on the forums with any and all details you have on the issue. Do not make a public post with this information.
  • Submit an in-game bug report.
  • If you happen to hear about a possible exploit, do not test it yourself. This can leave you open to action being taken against your account.

With those reminders in place, let's talk about Galactic Command and specifically Command Experience Points (CXP). When you reach level 70, most activities in the game will reward you with CXP, which will earn you Command Ranks and subsequently Command Crates. Since Command Crates are your source of end-game gear we are going to be extra diligent and harsh on exploits relating to CXP. As a reminder, an exploit is using the game in an unintended manner to gain an advantage, typically through the use of a bug or subversion of game mechanics.

 

If anyone is discovered to have abused an exploit related to CXP we intend to take severe action, including:

  • Resetting that character(s) Command Rank to 1
  • Stripping all gear/items earned from Galactic Command
  • Standard ToS action up to and including permanent ban

Again, if you discover an exploit, please refrain from using it and report it to us privately as soon as possible. Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

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I thought that the weekly cap ensures that we cannot exploit Galactic Command. :(

 

Obviously, I'm going to try to farm as many Command Points as possible. When we don't know what is supposed to be the intended speed to get gear, how are we supposed to know what is considered an exploit?

Like you mentioned a long time ago that one hour in a SM operation gives one Command Crate. Is that still correct? So I guess 2-3 Command Crates per hour are still okay but 5-10 crates per hour are an exploit? :rak_02:

Edited by Jerba
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Players are naturally going to seek the quickest possible way to grind CXP Eric...is resetting an instance over and over an exploit? I assume all 'normal' things that players have done for years will be acceptable, but you've got to know that players are going to cruse through this the most efficient way possible so they can get back to doing the things they pay for.
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I know you're only doing your job with this post, but geez. This does not exactly fill me with confidence about this system if you warn about exploiting it before it even hits live servers.

The fact that they have repeatedly stated "you only hit the limit if you're exploiting" and now this post make me a little worried that there is something going live that either is an exploit outright, or something "natural" within the game mechanics that they would consider an exploit if used in a certain context (I have an idea of something specific, but I don't wanna get sacked for trying to read someone's mind!).

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As a reminder, an exploit is using the game in an unintended manner to gain an advantage, typically through the use of a bug or subversion of game mechanics.

 

It would be great for those players who intend to grind GC for gear to know in advance of possibly being punished for doing this, especially those who intend to enter operations and save lockouts etc on bosses.

 

Or is that still acceptable methods of gearing with GC? A simple yes / no answer will suffice Eric.

 

I wouldn't want to see any players to be caught up in undefined rules for GC gearing.

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[*]If you happen to hear about a possible exploit, do not test it yourself. This can leave you open to action being taken against your account.

I guess I sort of understand the reasoning behind this (I assume you don't want people trying to weasel out of punishment by claiming they were "testing" an exploit). But... it also concerns me as it sounds a bit heavy-handed.

 

I mean, say I stumble upon an exploit and accidentally do it once. How can you tell the difference between that and testing it, or that and doing it intentionally to get unintended rewards/progression? I don't see how you possibly could tell the difference and if you punish for first time offenders, that's not going to be taken well.

 

And what if I hear a rumor, but I think it might be bull and I want to test it before I go sending some nonsense report in? Would you rather players not take the initiative just so that you can better discern who has or hasn't broken the rules? It seems like it'd be obvious that if somebody does an exploit once or twice, they're only testing it or stumbled onto it and if they do it repeatedly, it's intentional.

 

You also need to be extra clear, as TUX pointed out, on what is and isn't an exploit with Galactic Command, if you are going to be extra diligent.

 

This isn't my first rodeo with postings in MMOs about exploits and I've seen it go awry before. You need to make it crystal clear what constitutes crossing the line and that means being proactive about the details of CXP and gains, not just being reactive when you inevitably get reports about some bug.

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This isn't my first rodeo with postings in MMOs about exploits and I've seen it go awry before. You need to make it crystal clear what constitutes crossing the line and that means being proactive about the details of CXP and gains, not just being reactive when you inevitably get reports about some bug.

 

Exactly.

 

There are mechanics in place in this game that will be used by players to get CXP the fastest way possible (like resetting OPS). Eric, Bioware can't just say: BE WARNED! When it is unclear what to be warned about in specific detail.

 

Everything can be considered an "exploit" if you get 999 bug reports about a specific mechanic in the game that gives a player CXP. But again, it is just being vague as usual instead of being crystal clear.

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It sounds to me that they are aware that there can be an exploit and that if there is they don't know exactly what it is and wanna catch it and fix it before it goes live on the second to those who don't have early access. As always people who get early access are the beta testers.
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Hey folks,

 

I am seeing a few questions in the thread about "what constitutes an exploit" and things along those lines. First, you don't need to have concerns about simply playing the game. Earning a lot of CXP is in no way an exploit. Play and earn CXP as much as you want, you won't be punished for that.

 

As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.

 

The reason that we put out this messaging is that we know players are going to want to push the boundaries to gain CXP as fast as possible, and we are totally ok with that. I just wanted to caution how you go about those gains and should you find a way to gain CXP that goes around intended mechanics, it could be an exploit. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is, report it to us so we can see if there is an issue.

 

-eric

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Hey folks,

 

I am seeing a few questions in the thread about "what constitutes an exploit" and things along those lines. First, you don't need to have concerns about simply playing the game. Earning a lot of CXP is in no way an exploit. Play and earn CXP as much as you want, you won't be punished for that.

 

As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.

 

The reason that we put out this messaging is that we know players are going to want to push the boundaries to gain CXP as fast as possible, and we are totally ok with that. I just wanted to caution how you go about those gains and should you find a way to gain CXP that goes around intended mechanics, it could be an exploit. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is, report it to us so we can see if there is an issue.

 

-eric

I appreciate the response and I understand you are just the messenger, but I want to make a point of noting that the following statement:

As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.

is a tautology, aka: circular.

 

"What is an exploit?" It's what isn't intended.

 

"What's not intended?" Anything that is an exploit.

 

Might seem obvious to the devs, since they know what their intentions were, but we don't all know what the intentions are.

 

For example, the question TUX asked about resetting an instance. Would that be considered an exploit? To me, it seems like one of those things that is on the borderline... maybe not intended, but not necessarily game breaking either. It's also the kind of thing that could be avoided in development by (for example) storing mob kill data somewhere for things that have a weekly lockout and then putting in code that says the mob kills only give you the XP once a week on that character. That is, if it is a thing that is unintended.

 

But with it open-ended as it is, we need to know.

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I appreciate the response and I understand you are just the messenger, but I want to make a point of noting that the following statement:

 

is a tautology, aka: circular.

 

"What is an exploit?" It's what isn't intended.

 

"What's not intended?" Anything that is an exploit.

 

Might seem obvious to the devs, since they know what their intentions were, but we don't all know what the intentions are.

 

For example, the question TUX asked about resetting an instance. Would that be considered an exploit? To me, it seems like one of those things that is on the borderline... maybe not intended, but not necessarily game breaking either. It's also the kind of thing that could be avoided in development by (for example) storing mob kill data somewhere for things that have a weekly lockout and then putting in code that says the mob kills only give you the XP once a week on that character. That is, if it is a thing that is unintended.

 

But with it open-ended as it is, we need to know.

I don't think they know what the exploit is exactly that can happen and if they do, they aren't saying because they don't want people to do it and admit that the expansion isn't up to code like they wanted it to be or they are just worried an exploit will happen because as with the KOTFE expansion it dropped something in the system broke and there was a credit exploit and the same thing can happen with this new system when it drops, something in the game will break and cause an exploit except this time it has to deal with CXP instead of credits. What it is or possibly could be they don't know or are unwilling to tell us. It also maybe that they don't want to tell us so people who have used exploits in the past can be caught in the act and dealt with properly. This is all theoretical of course but I put nothing past Bioware.

Edited by DarthEnrique
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OK Eric, I'll PM you a bug I encountered yesterday, I don't know if this is being fixed by 5.0 but this would be a WONDERFUL HEAVENS DREAM!!!! exploit :D

 

Anyway, tell us whether resetting instances is an exploit or not. This is not intended use as I see it, but who knows, maybe you intended us to do it.

 

Also, if /stuck on bosses works(e.g. Bestia), is this an exploit?

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I think people are reading too much into this in terms of intention. I doubt Bioware knows that there is a specific exploit that they are pushing to live, but I rather think Bioware wants to make sure that people are aware that exploiting the game has a punishment. Period.

 

Bioware was accused of being too soft with exploiters and their ill-received gains in the past, and they were constantly "attacked" for not making cause and effect clear enough. This is a clear message: If you find a way to quickly cap GCXP on multiple characters within the first week, you are doing something that isn't intended to be.

 

Now, here's where it gets important: Eric has made an important point about the idea that "if it is too good to be true, it probably is!" People who engage in exploits are often quite aware that what they are doing is not intended to be done, or supported by the average/intended game mechanics in any way. Let me take the world quest example from WoW:

 

The world quest system promotes traveling the Broken Isles in order to complete certain quests that rewards Order Hall Resources (a currency used for building troops for missions and upgrading your class hall), gold, crafting materials, and artifact power (think of it as "experience" for weapons). Players found a bugged world quest in Suramar that enabled them to complete the quest over and over again after logging out. Kill ten mobs. Gain 5k XP. Log out and back in. Rince and Repeat.

 

Now, seeing that every other world quest is designed to be done once, it was quite clear that this was a bug. The quest was not intended to behave that way. The AP gain was ridiculous, and no other world quest ever reset that quickly or upon relogging within a few seconds. The players who repeatedly used that quest knew that they were using a bug to trick the system.

 

Let's put that into SWTOR terms:

 

Imagine you want to farm GCXP by doing solo mode flashpoints. You travel to the FP using the GC interface. Now, you might be playing a shadow like me, and sneaking past mobs is the trick of the trade. You stealth, run past the trash, and only kill the available bosses. You then use "Exit Area" to travel back, then reset and do the same thing again. This would not be an exploit, seeing that you are only using the tools the game is providing, and the mechanics as they were meant to be used:

 

Stealth is meant to avoid trash mobs/mobs as a class that can actually stealth through the dungeon. You're not traveling anywhere you're not supposed to be. You kill the bosses fair and square. Then you reset the flashpoint with an intended reset mechanic and do the same thing again. You're just doing what people have always been doing for years - use the reset mechanic to farm the bosses and skip trash.

 

Now imagine you're doing warzones. GCXP is a reward. It's supposed to be given out as a complimentary reward after finishing an activity - killing a boss and ending a warzone come to mind. You quit one of the warzones before it actually ends, and you get a big command XP booster. You're a sly person, and you try that again. You join a warzone and quit after a few seconds without the warzone even having started properly. And...you're awarded an experience booster again! You do that over and over again. You don't finish a single warzone for two hours, and yet you make five to six levels per hour. That's most likely uninteded, seeing that you aren't even rewarded for doing anything. Reward are distributed at the end of a warzone since 1.0. Everyone who has the slightest experience with PvP knows that.

 

TL;DR:

 

If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Use common sense.

 

Anyway, tell us whether resetting instances is an exploit or not. This is not intended use as I see it, but who knows, maybe you intended us to do it.

 

Of course it's the intended use. You can reset an instance if you've killed all the bosses and obtained their loot. This has always been the case since "ancient times". Before the dark times of 3.0. You're not circumventing any mechanic at all. You're not using a system in an unintended way. You reset the FP as soon as all the bosses are down. That's the intended effect.

Edited by Alssaran
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Of course it's the intended use. You can reset an instance if you've killed all the bosses and obtained their loot. This has always been the case since "ancient times". Before the dark times of 3.0. You're not circumventing any mechanic at all. You're not using a system in an unintended way. You reset the FP as soon as all the bosses are down. That's the intended effect.

 

We might not be talking about the same reset. Complete speculation, but for example, lets say we find out that running 8 people thru 16 man NiM EC and kill the trash up to the first boss. We get 2-3 ranks from it in about 30 minutes and then reset to kill them all again.

 

Is that their intention? or are we crossing their ill-defined line?

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Hey folks,

 

I am seeing a few questions in the thread about "what constitutes an exploit" and things along those lines. First, you don't need to have concerns about simply playing the game. Earning a lot of CXP is in no way an exploit. Play and earn CXP as much as you want, you won't be punished for that.

 

As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.

 

The reason that we put out this messaging is that we know players are going to want to push the boundaries to gain CXP as fast as possible, and we are totally ok with that. I just wanted to caution how you go about those gains and should you find a way to gain CXP that goes around intended mechanics, it could be an exploit. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is, report it to us so we can see if there is an issue.

 

-eric

 

 

So, let me get this straight... (And if I am right about this, I'll be the first to say I have exploited the game. [Please let me be wrong.])

 

If I level a new alt and completely skip the story via side quests (for the first 10 levels.) and then via Flash points and War Zones so I can get to kotfe (or raiding or what ever end-game content.)... Would that not be playing the game a way that is not intended? Honest question because to me is sounds like you definition is not 100% correct.

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So, let me get this straight... (And if I am right about this, I'll be the first to say I have exploited the game. [Please let me be wrong.])

 

If I level a new alt and completely skip the story via side quests (for the first 10 levels.) and then via Flash points and War Zones so I can get to kotfe (or raiding or what ever end-game content.)... Would that not be playing the game a way that is not intended? Honest question because to me is sounds like you definition is not 100% correct.

 

Wouldn't that be the same as just getting a character token and skipping everything? I do that where I level to max then just start KotFE. It's an allowed mechanic because it says once you start KotFE you can't go back.

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So, let me get this straight... (And if I am right about this, I'll be the first to say I have exploited the game. [Please let me be wrong.])

 

If I level a new alt and completely skip the story via side quests (for the first 10 levels.) and then via Flash points and War Zones so I can get to kotfe (or raiding or what ever end-game content.)... Would that not be playing the game a way that is not intended? Honest question because to me is sounds like you definition is not 100% correct.

 

You really asked a stupid question. And the simple answer that any intelligent person would know is - no that is not an exploit.

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We might not be talking about the same reset. Complete speculation, but for example, lets say we find out that running 8 people thru 16 man NiM EC and kill the trash up to the first boss. We get 2-3 ranks from it in about 30 minutes and then reset to kill them all again.

 

The mechanic is working as intended. You are killing mobs on the highest difficulty level for the appropriate reward in GCXP. Bioware said that the amount of GCXP you get is higher in NiM and HM difficulty than in SM difficulty. The more difficult a content part is, the more GCXP you get. Bioware stated that their intention is to give one crate every thirty minutes on average during the first few levels. And you're using the reset mechanic to reset the operation. You're not using a bug in the system. The mobs are dropping a slight amount of XP, the reset properly resets the operation (as it was intended to do), and you kill the mobs in a reasonable fight. No obvious bugs there. The system is safe.

 

Seeing that you are running the most difficult content there is (and not the intended SM content to start with), two levels in that timeframe are reasonable for the lower levels of GC.

 

The basic question to ask is whether a mechanic is being used the way it is intended to be used. If all the mechanics are working as intended, and you're not sneaking around any necessary systems, it's a valid form of farming GCXP. If you'd find a mob that instantly gives an entire level up and is a one-hit enemy, I'd suggest stopping that activity. A three second mob kill for an entire level is definitely not an intended mechanic.

 

Whether you're making 1.6 or 1.8 levels per half an hour is a scaling issue between content difficulties and boss balancing. However, if you suddenly start making ten levels per thirty minutes? That's probably not intended at all.

 

It's applying common sense to GC. If every boss or trash mob in the game drops 10 GCXP by default, and you find a simple bandit on Tatooine that drops a thousand GCXP for a two second fight on a thirty second spawn timer? That's definitely not intended at all. Not if the average level takes a thousand GCXP during the first 100 levels.

 

Would that not be playing the game a way that is not intended? Honest question because to me is sounds like you definition is not 100% correct.

 

No. It's entirely your decision what kinds of content you use in what timeframe to level up to max level. Bioware is recommending you to use story because it's their strong point. If you feel as if leveling up via space combat alone is your thing, you can just do that. It's the same with experience gain in WoW. Blizzard recommends questing and dungeons for the best XP curve. Then there's DoubleAgent. Someone who gathers herbs and goes to 110 without ever killing a mob. He never exploited a mechanic. He choose the playstyle he likes best and used that.

 

I get the feeling some people are are desperately trying to find a workout to this definition in order to "win" an argument here. Applying common sense to a mechanic isn't hard.

Edited by Alssaran
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