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So you're the top Player, can you beat the top Sorc?


Boops

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The answer is always, YES.

 

Take the top Imp players on your server. Duel your best DPS Sorc on DK spaceport (wide open). See who wins.

Yes, the sorc can beat decent players. But rarely, if ever, against the other Best in Class players. QQ.:(

 

If this post were just ''can you beat the top Sorc on your server'' there would be 100's of replies. Keep that in mind before you start posting 'hybrid heal' spec, etc. Like to see any Sorc beat Wakalord/assassin, Cialy/Marauder, Grugharina/PT . - Bastion.

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The answer is always, YES.

 

Take the top Imp players on your server. Duel your best DPS Sorc on DK spaceport (wide open). See who wins.

Yes, the sorc can beat decent players. But rarely, if ever, against the other Best in Class players. QQ.:(

 

If this post were just ''can you beat the top Sorc on your server'' there would be 100's of replies. Keep that in mind before you start posting 'hybrid heal' spec, etc. Like to see any Sorc beat Wakalord/assassin, Cialy/Marauder, Grugharina/PT . - Bastion.

 

 

that's like saying the top pt/mara on your server can beat the top commando/merc on your server, the question is self answering

 

we all know sorc dps sucks, stop making threads about it.

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A duel in plain open terrain doesn't demonstrate anything. Warzones are full with line of sight obstructions that have a tremendous impact on many classes performance, including sage/sorcerer.

 

Who would win in a Sniper vs MAdness sorc fight in plain terrain? Of course sniper. Who usually wins this fight in a warzone? If the Sorc is good, most of the time he will win.

Edited by NoTomorrow
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The answer is always, YES.

 

Take the top Imp players on your server. Duel your best DPS Sorc on DK spaceport (wide open). See who wins.

Yes, the sorc can beat decent players. But rarely, if ever, against the other Best in Class players. QQ.:(

 

If this post were just ''can you beat the top Sorc on your server'' there would be 100's of replies. Keep that in mind before you start posting 'hybrid heal' spec, etc. Like to see any Sorc beat Wakalord/assassin, Cialy/Marauder, Grugharina/PT . - Bastion.

 

And what has a duel to do with the warzone OBJECTIVE?

Are you suggesting we should balance PVP around 1vs1 combat?

 

I play a DPS Sorc and DPS Sage and I can kill any sniper in a duel (and I play a 50 sniper as well).

If you don't know how, learn your class. Tell me, which class is vulerable to a DPS merc/commando?

 

These sorc/sages just whine because they cannot go toe-to-toe with the lolsmashers and PTs.

 

The class was never meant to do that, but they have plenty of utility to contribute to the team.

For crying out loud, Huttball was made for Sorc/Sages!

 

Nevermind the F2P'ers who think otherwise - SWTOR WARZONES ARE NOT DEATHMATCHES!

 

DPS Merc/Commando is a whole different story!

Mediocre damage AND lack of utility makes their complaints much more credible.

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try playing a Merc

 

This

 

A duel in plain open terrain doesn't demonstrate anything. Warzones are full with line of sight obstructions that have a tremendous impact on many classes performance, including sage/sorcerer.

 

Who would win in a Sniper vs MAdness sorc fight in plain terrain? Of course sniper. Who usually wins this fight in a warzone? If the Sorc is good, most of the time he will win.

 

This

 

And what has a duel to do with the warzone OBJECTIVE?

Are you suggesting we should balance PVP around 1vs1 combat?

 

I play a DPS Sorc and DPS Sage and I can kill any sniper in a duel (and I play a 50 sniper as well).

If you don't know how, learn your class. Tell me, which class is vulerable to a DPS merc/commando?

 

These sorc/sages just whine because they cannot go toe-to-toe with the lolsmashers and PTs.

 

The class was never meant to do that, but they have plenty of utility to contribute to the team.

For crying out loud, Huttball was made for Sorc/Sages!

 

Nevermind the F2P'ers who think otherwise - SWTOR WARZONES ARE NOT DEATHMATCHES!

 

DPS Merc/Commando is a whole different story!

Mediocre damage AND lack of utility makes their complaints much more credible.

 

And that

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Winning solo has nothing to do with winning a WZs, because winning a WZs is about team work and synergy between different classes. If WZs are measured by how effective you can win solo everyone will roll a sin/shadwo!

 

Also, in small battle situations (2v2, 3v3, 4v4) sorceress has strong impact (specifically lighting/corruption hybrid) as bubble becomes much more effective.

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Winning solo has nothing to do with winning a WZs, because winning a WZs is about team work and synergy between different classes. If WZs are measured by how effective you can win solo everyone will roll a sin/shadwo!

 

Also, in small battle situations (2v2, 3v3, 4v4) sorceress has strong impact (specifically lighting/corruption hybrid) as bubble becomes much more effective.

 

I'd like to agree, but if you have 2 smash spec vs a smash /sorc, they just rape the sorc instantly. two 7.5k hits with 4k(non crit) follow up, each = 23k, in less than 2.5 seconds.

 

Sorcs are nothing more than fun to play. They get raped.

Edited by Boops
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I'd like to agree, but if you have 2 smash spec vs a smash /sorc, they just rape the sorc instantly. two 7.5k hits with 4k(non crit) follow up, each = 23k, in less than 2.5 seconds.

 

Sorcs are nothing more than fun to play. They get raped.

first, thats a 2v1 situation, two, get a tank with guard

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And what has a duel to do with the warzone OBJECTIVE?

Are you suggesting we should balance PVP around 1vs1 combat?

 

I play a DPS Sorc and DPS Sage and I can kill any sniper in a duel (and I play a 50 sniper as well).

If you don't know how, learn your class. Tell me, which class is vulerable to a DPS merc/commando?

 

These sorc/sages just whine because they cannot go toe-to-toe with the lolsmashers and PTs.

 

The class was never meant to do that, but they have plenty of utility to contribute to the team.

For crying out loud, Huttball was made for Sorc/Sages!

 

Nevermind the F2P'ers who think otherwise - SWTOR WARZONES ARE NOT DEATHMATCHES!

 

DPS Merc/Commando is a whole different story!

Mediocre damage AND lack of utility makes their complaints much more credible.

 

Obviously you don't play against any good snipers, there is no reason a sorc should ever win 1v1 against a sniper without LOS. Snipers are immune to interrupt, can use entrench to make themselves immune to cc and have superior CC options to the sorc. Sorcs can't go toe to toe with any class other than mercs and otehr sorcs. Mind you sniper is easy to be while utilizing LOS, but without it Sorc/Sage survivability just isn't enough to fight the sniper.

 

If you loose to any sorc as a sniper and the sorc didn't abuse LOS then you are bad.

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Obviously you don't play against any good snipers, there is no reason a sorc should ever win 1v1 against a sniper without LOS. Snipers are immune to interrupt, can use entrench to make themselves immune to cc and have superior CC options to the sorc. Sorcs can't go toe to toe with any class other than mercs and otehr sorcs. Mind you sniper is easy to be while utilizing LOS, but without it Sorc/Sage survivability just isn't enough to fight the sniper.

 

If you loose to any sorc as a sniper and the sorc didn't abuse LOS then you are bad.

 

Not only do I play against good snipers, I play a good sniper myself.

 

Just one question for you - which warzone does not have LoS restrictions?

 

The only time a sorc/sage should lose is if the duel is in a place without LoS limitations.

Why a sorc/sage would agree to such duel is beyond me, but none of that has anything to do with class balance in warzones.

Edited by Totaltrash
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On my Sniper I hVe never ever come close to losing to a Sorcerer, and I honestly don't know how you could. A corruption Sorc isn't going to kill anything, ever. A lightning Sorc that is allowed to cast while you have an interrupt and a flashbang means you deserve to lose, but even then, going toe to toe with any sniper spec and the Sorc is behind damage wise. The only way I could see a Sorc having any advantage is a Madness Sorc trying to DOT up a Marksman Sniper. Lethality DOT's far outperform Madness DOT's so that can't be what you're talking about, and Engineering isn't far behind, will actually pull ahead if the Sorc turrets to channel Force Lightning at all. And if he doesn't do that, he won't get any wrath procs, and engineering sniper will actually be.pretty equal DOT wise to that.

 

So the only way a Sorcerer can beat a Sniper, is if he specs madness, the Sniper specs MM, the sorc manages to fully DOT the Sniper, and run for cover to heal. Then do it again. Then run LOS and heal again. And again. A full affliction does just over 2k dmg. Full creeping Terror does about the same. Full CRushing Darkness does I believe another 3k. Add in.a force.lightning or two each round, and a deathfield. The Sniper might die the second time you hide to heal, but it will be close. Tell me when killing somebody solo over a matter of 30-40+ seconds is useful in objective based PVP? Sure not useful in huttball. If there is a solo defender on one node, and he doesn't call for help at all, and nobody randomly goes to check on that node, is the only time it would be useful, and if the team is that bad, it won't matter anyways.

 

I said in another thread, if my Sniper gets jumped by two people 2 vs 1, I have a very good chance of killing one of them. If my Sorc gets jumped by 2 people, I have a very good chance of doing less than 25% damage to one of them.

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On my Sniper I hVe never ever come close to losing to a Sorcerer, and I honestly don't know how you could. A corruption Sorc isn't going to kill anything, ever. A lightning Sorc that is allowed to cast while you have an interrupt and a flashbang means you deserve to lose, but even then, going toe to toe with any sniper spec and the Sorc is behind damage wise. The only way I could see a Sorc having any advantage is a Madness Sorc trying to DOT up a Marksman Sniper. Lethality DOT's far outperform Madness DOT's so that can't be what you're talking about, and Engineering isn't far behind, will actually pull ahead if the Sorc turrets to channel Force Lightning at all. And if he doesn't do that, he won't get any wrath procs, and engineering sniper will actually be.pretty equal DOT wise to that.

 

So the only way a Sorcerer can beat a Sniper, is if he specs madness, the Sniper specs MM, the sorc manages to fully DOT the Sniper, and run for cover to heal. Then do it again. Then run LOS and heal again. And again. A full affliction does just over 2k dmg. Full creeping Terror does about the same. Full CRushing Darkness does I believe another 3k. Add in.a force.lightning or two each round, and a deathfield. The Sniper might die the second time you hide to heal, but it will be close. Tell me when killing somebody solo over a matter of 30-40+ seconds is useful in objective based PVP? Sure not useful in huttball. If there is a solo defender on one node, and he doesn't call for help at all, and nobody randomly goes to check on that node, is the only time it would be useful, and if the team is that bad, it won't matter anyways.

 

I said in another thread, if my Sniper gets jumped by two people 2 vs 1, I have a very good chance of killing one of them. If my Sorc gets jumped by 2 people, I have a very good chance of doing less than 25% damage to one of them.

 

Problem is sage can heal your dots, while you can't heal his dots.

 

A balance sage abusing the **** out of LoS will be a sniper every time.

Edited by Smashbrother
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i play a sage on bastion..from my experience i lost fights and i won some solo..alot of people dont understand the concept to sorc /sages..this is one class thats not friendly to people who backpeddles, keyclick and keyturn..espcially against a skill melee player..

 

i will fight anybody or class alone..lot of fights i do lose its very close..sages/sorcs you must use strategy with the class..we are not like juggs or maras where any idiot can herp derp smash and hit big..this is techiniques and skills the player must find on there own..

 

lot of sorc/sages wont fight certain classes they will run away..only way you get better at your class is learning how the other classes works in terms of fighting you..to win the fight you have to lose a few times..to sum it up sorcs/sages dont have the burst to win a battle..they do have the tools to win a war it depends on how you play the toon..

 

lastly since i play a sage i fought many sorcs on bastion server..in terms of skill and play..best sorc atm is Best World..the dude have game with the sorc and i seen him beat melee classes from sents to juggs in 1 vs 1 duels in outlaw den.

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i play a sage on bastion..from my experience i lost fights and i won some solo..alot of people dont understand the concept to sorc /sages..this is one class thats not friendly to people who backpeddles, keyclick and keyturn..espcially against a skill melee player..

 

i will fight anybody or class alone..lot of fights i do lose its very close..sages/sorcs you must use strategy with the class..we are not like juggs or maras where any idiot can herp derp smash and hit big..this is techiniques and skills the player must find on there own..

 

lot of sorc/sages wont fight certain classes they will run away..only way you get better at your class is learning how the other classes works in terms of fighting you..to win the fight you have to lose a few times..to sum it up sorcs/sages dont have the burst to win a battle..they do have the tools to win a war it depends on how you play the toon..

 

lastly since i play a sage i fought many sorcs on bastion server..in terms of skill and play..best sorc atm is Best World..the dude have game with the sorc and i seen him beat melee classes from sents to juggs in 1 vs 1 duels in outlaw den.

 

Full balance sages are really good at 1v1s.

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Full balance sages are really good at 1v1s.

 

Yeah but they aren't useful at all when it comes to actual warzones. I can beat almost every class 1v1 in full madness, but I can't kill anyone for the life of me if there is a decent healer or tank around.

 

Still full madness looses to snipers without LOS, Assassins and Operative dps. Assuming that the aforementioned classes are equally skilled as the sorc.

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The thing is yes, utilizing kiting tatics, LOS and knowing when to mez the opponent as full madness can net you a win against most players and classes. The problem lies in that it takes you so long to do this, so it isn't very practical in a warzone. I takes around 45 seconds to beat most classes as a dps sage. You have to spend the time kiting to make your opponent waste his cooldowns so you can burst them yourself. Sadly this lack of burst hurts the SAGE/SORC in warzones too, and there is no good force management mechanic for full madness.

 

Yes a sage can beat a sniper utilizing LOS in a warzone, but the amount of time you must spend to kill a sniper using this manner is ridiculous. Any class can abuse the weakness of the sniper by using LOS, but that far from means the sniper is bad class nor that the sorcerer class is fine because of LOS.

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The thing is yes, utilizing kiting tatics, LOS and knowing when to mez the opponent as full madness can net you a win against most players and classes. The problem lies in that it takes you so long to do this, so it isn't very practical in a warzone. I takes around 45 seconds to beat most classes as a dps sage. You have to spend the time kiting to make your opponent waste his cooldowns so you can burst them yourself. Sadly this lack of burst hurts the SAGE/SORC in warzones too, and there is no good force management mechanic for full madness.

 

Yes a sage can beat a sniper utilizing LOS in a warzone, but the amount of time you must spend to kill a sniper using this manner is ridiculous. Any class can abuse the weakness of the sniper by using LOS, but that far from means the sniper is bad class nor that the sorcerer class is fine because of LOS.

 

Why dies it take you so much to kill a sniper with full madness? They go down much faster unless they are engineering and have 2 shield probs available. Just make sure youndont waste your death field when he has entrench on, if he is MM he is likely to have siege bunker. Crushing darkness should be used after his shield probe expires.

Edited by NoTomorrow
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I'd like to agree, but if you have 2 smash spec vs a smash /sorc, they just rape the sorc instantly. two 7.5k hits with 4k(non crit) follow up, each = 23k, in less than 2.5 seconds.

 

Sorcs are nothing more than fun to play. They get raped.

 

How is this any different from 2 operatives opening up on a marauder or any other class and instantly stunning them / ****** them while they can't do anything? 2 geared dps operatives can do this, easily. Literally, nothing the single player can do vs that much burst. Same could be said for 2 assassins, or an assassin + operative. Hell, a PT as well. PT + smash is huge burst, and between the two, they get 8 seconds of stun at least, that's enough to kill you.

 

Saying that "2 people rape 1 player is OP" doesn't really mean anything. Furthermore, why didn't your bubble stun both of them, allowing you time for force speed away and apply dots/kite? Why didn't you use overload to knock them back? Why didn't you use one of your stuns? Hell you could knockback them both, whirlwind one while they are rooted (you do have knockback root, right?), and proceed to start kiting the other player while dotting him up/slowing him. This gives you 15 seconds where his charge is down and he literally can't do much of anything to you, while you get free dps on him. Once he catches up, you get to abosrb his damage and bubble stun him AGAIN, and very soon your knockback / root is back up again.

 

GOOD sorcs know how to do what I described above, and they make playing smash extremely frustrating. If you just stand there and take it like an idiot, then yes, you will get owned. That's kind of the point of a 2v1. What it sounds like to me is that you:

 

  • have slow reaction time
  • keyboard turn
  • click your abilities
  • are possibly still learning your class

 

Yep, my rage friend and I own people like that all day long. Charge in, they stand there with apathy wondering what to do, we smash, they die. L2P.

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