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The Empire are the good guys?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Empire are the good guys?

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
Yesterday , 05:32 PM | #91
His point is that taking the code literally is ridiculous. If you take it literally then it also denies the existence of chaos, passion, ignorance, and death.

Those are all observably false, and the Jedi have never believed any of those things to be the case. If they believed there was no chaos, why would they strive to bring order? If they believed there was no emotion, why would they warn people to guard against it? If they believed there was already no ignorance, why would they strive for knowledge? If they believed there was no death, why would they try to save people's lives? They obviously do all those things, even before that version of the Jedi Code came to be, so the Code was never meant to be taken literally.

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
Yesterday , 05:42 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Defecter View Post
You are basically making my point for me; good and evil are open for interpretation. In fact, I believe your post shows just how many assumptions one can make from just a few lines of text. Most of which I disagree with.

Since I have to go to work in just a few minutes I can't go into your entire post, but this example is pretty much what my reply would boil down to;

You say 'This line does not deny the existence of emotion, as you claim. If fact it acknowledges that everyone feels emotion.'. I say, the fact that the code literally states 'There is no emotion' makes your statement faulty. The only way you can reason your statement is by extending into further Jedi beliefs outside of the code itself. The code on it's own quite literally denies the existence of emotion.

You reason in exactly the same way for each line of the Jedi code. Only by interpreting it in a certain way, outside of the context of the code itself, would you arrive at your conclusions. I am not saying your wrong. Not at all. I am merely saying that by it's very definition, it depends on who reads the code that determines it's meaning and moral alignment. I find it a reprehensible code to live by, you don't. And the funny thing is, neither of us is actually wrong.

Just like the Sith code, the Jedi code can be both good and evil at the same time. The same way that a Sith might consider the Empire a force for good and the Republic a force of evil. It depends on the point of view.

If you want to argue if either the Empire or the Republic is a negative influence of the galaxy by imperical and measurable means, that would be a whole different argument. And one that would actually be more productive than trying to argue something that has different meanings for everyone.
As I said, a surface level interpretation. The code is not literal it is a philosophy. Which is why it takes a Jedi years of study to interpret and put into practice the code. See the cutscenes from the Inquisitor story on Taris as an example where Ashara is explaining what various lines of the code mean. If you can not see beyond the words to the deeper meaning, if all you're going to do is a literal reading of the code and never delve deeper into the code, then you will never understand the code.
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Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
Yesterday , 05:49 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
His point is that taking the code literally is ridiculous. If you take it literally then it also denies the existence of chaos, passion, ignorance, and death.

Those are all observably false, and the Jedi have never believed any of those things to be the case. If they believed there was no chaos, why would they strive to bring order? If they believed there was no emotion, why would they warn people to guard against it? If they believed there was already no ignorance, why would they strive for knowledge? If they believed there was no death, why would they try to save people's lives? They obviously do all those things, even before that version of the Jedi Code came to be, so the Code was never meant to be taken literally.
Well, the truth of the matter is that the current code is a mangled form of the original, which went "Emotion, yet peace; ignorance, yet knowledge," etc. Why they did that, I truly don't know.

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
Yesterday , 06:38 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Well, the truth of the matter is that the current code is a mangled form of the original, which went "Emotion, yet peace; ignorance, yet knowledge," etc. Why they did that, I truly don't know.
Blame Odan-Urr.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
Yesterday , 07:08 PM | #95
It's possible they wanted to emphasize the inspirational goals of the code more.

Although, I was sort of under the impression that the out of universe reason was that the new code was originally developed for the "Well meaning, but flawed" Jedi doctrine of the PT era, for when the Jedi Order falls. Don't quote me on that though.

ApollosNight's Avatar


ApollosNight
Today , 08:03 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by JJKerryee View Post
First of all, I would like the say that no one in this thread is questioning the subjectivity of evil.
If we're taking about the in-game universe, that's debatable. If we're talking about the real world, I certainly hope you don't want to argue evil is subjective.