In some time i have been playing (since beta), I've notice that tanker have just one reason to be called so on pvp:

Guard.

Take guard away and tanker are as good as nothing...

When u see a Tanker guarding a healer, yeah that's one is a hard kill, but when u see a tanker alone, thats an easy prey.

 

Today is much more easy to kill a tanker then kill a healer alone, and this is so *********** wrong.

Tanker have some high CD skills to hold some damage.

Other have better skills to stop damage/escape with lesser CDs (ex: bubble, Invunerabilitys).

 

This are supposed to be right but ONLY if the mitigation mechanisms worked on pvp, then tanker have a nice mitigation all the times and some skills to improve it sometimes.

 

As it is right now, a sage with bubble can survive much and MUCH more than a tanker because he can have bubble all the time, and have skills to escape, a tanker is just hard to kill one time each 3 min -.-' (without healers).

 

There is an abiss between tanking on pve (where all works great) and tanking on pvp (where all mechanisms just dont work).

 

All this just because mitigation on pvp just sux!

 

So plz re-work defense chance armor and shield so they turn to be useful, and nerf a little guard (for balance purpuses)

In some time i have been playing (since beta), I've notice that tanker have just one reason to be called so on pvp:

Guard.

Take guard away and tanker are as good as nothing...

When u see a Tanker guarding a healer, yeah that's one is a hard kill, but when u see a tanker alone, thats an easy prey.

 

Today is much more easy to kill a tanker then kill a healer alone, and this is so *********** wrong.

Tanker have some high CD skills to hold some damage.

Other have better skills to stop damage/escape with lesser CDs (ex: bubble, Invunerabilitys).

 

This are supposed to be right but ONLY if the mitigation mechanisms worked on pvp, then tanker have a nice mitigation all the times and some skills to improve it sometimes.

 

As it is right now, a sage with bubble can survive much and MUCH more than a tanker because he can have bubble all the time, and have skills to escape, a tanker is just hard to kill one time each 3 min -.-' (without healers).

 

There is an abiss between tanking on pve (where all works great) and tanking on pvp (where all mechanisms just dont work).

 

All this just because mitigation on pvp just sux!

 

So plz re-work defense chance armor and shield so they turn to be useful, and nerf a little guard (for balance purpuses)

 

I think you might be onto something here. I've had the pleasure of playing DPS, tank and healer in the PvP endgame and I can safely conclude that healers really do have a remarkably easier time in PvP matches, and can last quite well on their own. In fact, my scoundrel has been able to last quite a lot longer when being ganked than my shadow -- and this is even when my shadow supposedly had on better gear (supposedly). I should also note that I have been playing my tank-build shadow much longer in PvP than the scoundrel. At the moment, I'm finding less and less incentive to play the tank in PvP.

 

Now, let's just look at the endgame stats. In terms of medals earned and points achieved by doing protection, there is not much incentive to do these normal tank related duties. A good tank, as they get up to speed in the game and acquire equipment, would normally have to sacrifice doing damage for the sake of shoring up other stats -- particularly endurance and defense so that they can do their protective jobs properly. Given that the game has evolved more towards rewarding damage (i,e, DPS), why would any player in their right mind consider anything other than a healer or a DPS for PvP?

 

Lastly, let's consider one of the major roles usually given to tanks -- guarding the team's nodes / flag while offense tries to take the other nodes / flag. The rewards for any player choosing to do this is poor -- regardless of whether they are a tank or not. And, I am starting to see this reflected in PvP where players are choosing not to guard the easy flag / node usually granted the team for the sake of gaining more medals, valour, credits and experience by beating up other players. What kind of incentive is there to be the lone guardian of a node, when you can further your toon's "gaming career" by not playing as a team member? (Granted, it's often different in ranked gameplay because the team's stake as a whole is clearer - but the fact that it is slow to trickle into the regular PvP, hints that the system is not quite balanced.)

 

Grue

 

P.S. Could someone please compare the War-Hero with the Elite War-Hero gear on Sage/Shadow side? It may be just me but I keep getting the impression that some gear doesn't really do much to improve your stats when you upgrade (e.g., implants).

Edited January 10, 2013 by Grue_Hunter

Well, first off it depends on what types of tanks we're talking about here.

 

Vanguard tanks rely heavily on shielding and absorbing, which is great for PvE, but worthless in PvP. The only thing Vanguards have going for them is their higher raw mitigation from armor (generally above %50 off the bat). Tanking Vanguards should just spec Pyro/Assault and contribute to damage done.

 

Shadows are situational. They're great for guarding nodes due to stealth. They're great with assisting node capture due to pulls. They have slightly more inflated hitpoints due to an actual Endurance increasing talent. However their CD's aren't nearly as effective as that of a Guardian. Tanking Shadows are viable in PvP, but are best used in situations where they can play to their strengths.

 

Guardians are the all round best choice. No class in the game is able to provide more CC as well as reduce the effectiveness of the enemy team. We assist the DPS by stacking armor debuffs. We slow everyone around us for free. With Force Leap, Guardian Leap and Force Push, our mobility is unparalleled.

 

Speaking as a PvP Guardian, I have a huge hitpoint pool, just under the mitigation a Vanguard has, and am nigh unkillable. However, to be fair, I am looking through rose colored glasses on this. My guild has a large, very skilled PvP centered crowd of players and there is always a spot in a four man group for Regs for me. So, admittedly I don't queue up without a healer and two DPS, but, we carry the warzone just by showing up.

 

Tanks are quite able to tank WZs, you just need to be the most objective oriented person on the team. The unsung hero.

 

To be fair however, the base "War Leader" armor sets have garbage stats on them. Anyone not min/maxing their WH or EWH is just a liability.

 

Solo queueing is for the birds, whether you're a healer, tank or DPS.

as a 50 powertech in pure tank build i really hoped as i replaced recruit-2 gear with WH that i would get to be harder to kill. now with just about the whole set - just need gloves and 2 relics to be full WH - I am still squishy as ****, i can't hit anyone for meaningful damage and i get smash, smash, smashed into dead.

 

i feel like i've wasted the time to get all that WH gear. so now i either have to grind out a full set of dps gear so i can pyrotech like everyone else or shelf the PT entirely and find a new pvp toon cause i am squishy as a tank and hit for 900 rather than the 6k and 7k the smashmonkeys do

as a 50 powertech in pure tank build i really hoped as i replaced recruit-2 gear with WH that i would get to be harder to kill. now with just about the whole set - just need gloves and 2 relics to be full WH - I am still squishy as ****, i can't hit anyone for meaningful damage and i get smash, smash, smashed into dead.

 

i feel like i've wasted the time to get all that WH gear. so now i either have to grind out a full set of dps gear so i can pyrotech like everyone else or shelf the PT entirely and find a new pvp toon cause i am squishy as a tank and hit for 900 rather than the 6k and 7k the smashmonkeys do

 

Tank gear is, sadly, pretty much obsolote in PvP. I grinded the whole WH set for my Vanguard tank before EWH came out, and have now replaced all but one relic and main hand weapon with dps-stuff. The shield I will keep, as I still am a tank. I really like how the full tank spec plays, but for PvP-efficiency I've decided to go "Iron Fist" and it's working quite well. (Get the charge-ability and it's companion 2-point skill from the tank tree, rest in to the middle tree to get the extra ability and lowered cd on your interrupt). Lower CD-interrupt means I'm on a healer like a damn insect and they really cannot do a thing about it. My DPS output has also significantly heightened, although I haven't played for long, and haven't had, for example, a full Voidstar full of action to gauge it. I hit 350k on full tank gear and spec in such a match, I assume I should get 500k by now.

sounds like i will be hybrid-spec'ing and getting a set of dps gear. go go gadget grindfest all over again.

All you guys just reach my point.

The pvp tank gear (and mechanisms) are just garbage.

Shield and Defense sux on pvp they only affect some attacks and can be put off the table.

Armor migitation to dont affect all, and in pvp it affects even less portion off incoming attacks.

I was with a pvp set that gives me aproximately:

30% defense chance

30% Shield chance

35% absortion

42% reduction from armor (plus 10% to all damage types)

and guess what? in pvp i am squissh as hell.

The only stats that realy make u take some damage is Expertise but only when others dont have it and that is avaliable to everbody.

But wait?! Expertise rise more dps then mitigation, so in fact if evebody has the same Expertise, it just rises all the damage done (and is more effective to dps because is a %).

 

So my point is,

If u are a healer, sage for example, u can use bubble and heal to keep someone alive.

If u are a tanker u have best chances to survive doing damage then trying to mitigate it.

If u are a Dps with guard u will get a LOT more medals in pvp.

 

Guard + Healer = Amost immortal, because Guard is broken and healing is to strong.

Guard is to broken, that even when the Guardian is not tanker it works pretty good with healers.

And without healer it dont do any good even when ur a tanker.

 

A tanker need to have higher survivality without a healer, so that why i suggest:

Nerf Guard - so nom tanker will not be guarding same as a tanker.

And Fix Mitigations Mech on Pvp - so tanker CAN realy tank.

Any one dissagre with that?

Any one dissagre with that?

 

Ofc NO!

But Bioware i think... They just dont care.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Glower

Lol just read another topic about balance:

Sentinels/Marauders get entirely embarrassed by Scoundrels, but finding a reliable scrapper to tear through them is pretty tough after all the nerfs to my class . With the amount of survivability that they have (30% aoe mitigation, Rebuke, Saber Ward, Force Camo, Guarded by the Force, Pacify, and Awe) they really do seem to have more survivability than tanks, while having some of the strongest output in the game.

How true!

Edited January 12, 2013 by Glower

I have been playing (since beta),

All this just because mitigation on pvp just sux!

 

So plz re-work defense chance armor and shield so they turn to be useful, and nerf a little guard (for balance purpuses)

 

'This.... make Guard useful for PvP... meaning that you would actually use your tanking stats like Shield Chance, Absorb etc. because it should work like that.... If NOT intended by BW, then why it is functional in PvE environments? (mitigation and all). Do I have a point, or else? What do you guys think?

Well, first off it depends on what types of tanks we're talking about here.

 

 

Tanks are quite able to tank WZs, you just need to be the most objective oriented person on the team. The unsung hero.

 

To be fair however, the base "War Leader" armor sets have garbage stats on them. Anyone not min/maxing their WH or EWH is just a liability.

 

Solo queueing is for the birds, whether you're a healer, tank or DPS.

 

Hmmm, I think WH remodded is in many ways just better than most of the EWH, but I am still collecting EWH, so dunno the whole truth about that. Tank for life !

Lolwut tanks are supposed to tank? *** is this ****

'This.... make Guard useful for PvP... meaning that you would actually use your tanking stats like Shield Chance, Absorb etc. because it should work like that.... If NOT intended by BW, then why it is functional in PvE environments? (mitigation and all). Do I have a point, or else? What do you guys think?

 

Yeah u have a point, guard is bether in pvp then it is on pve, the only problem is that guard turns to be the ONLY tank mechanism in pvp =/

And sadly it work even if ur not in a tank build, making tank build useless, it shoud work better on pvp then pve offcourse but no as strong as it is now, maybe u mitigate less damage, and the damage goes in u mitigations or something like that.

But the main point is mitigations mechanics not working on pvp, the guard nerf is just a sugestion for balance the rework on mitigation.

I am now playing hybrid talents and only focusing my equips on endurance and power, just a little defense and a little shield, and guess what? my survivality goes wayyy higher and i can kill someone! i have same medal i used to have before, but now i have damage and killing medals to!

 

So that my complaining, BW made the pvp to be DMG and HEALING ONLY ***?!

No DMG u LOSE, NO HEALING u LOSE, NO TANKER?! whatever...

Edited January 13, 2013 by Vaughnad

Im not sure I agree with much of this at all. Guarding a healer is great. Guarding one of your teams high dps is great as well. Having the ability to switch around your guard mid fight is nice. Your a walking soaking machine. Factor in your taunts, reducing a players damage unless they decide to attack you, and most CCs and playing a tank in pvp is pretty fun imo. I usually switch my guard around between our groups healer and main dps. I focus on protecting the healer, peel the dps on them. I think you have to find the right mind set for pvp tanking. Everyone wants glory and to kill players, but being a huge pain in the butt to the other team is what I think pvp tanking is all about.

As a jedi shadow tank I'm finding it hard to actually tank solo even with full elite war hero survivor gear, but if I'm guarding a healer I have no problem, it seems we are easy pray when it comes to solo pvp something actually needs to be done about that, we need better tanking tools than what we already got. Edited January 13, 2013 by RaithHarth

WHAT ON EARTH IS A TANKER??????????????????????? is that new lingo for tank?

WHAT ON EARTH IS A TANKER??????????????????????? is that new lingo for tank?

 

It's a ship.

As a jedi shadow tank I'm finding it hard to actually tank solo even with full elite war hero survivor gear, but if I'm guarding a healer I have no problem, it seems we are easy pray when it comes to solo pvp something actually needs to be done about that, we need better tanking tools than what we already got.

 

Do you think that just because your a tank you should win 1v1's? Whats the time to kill you at? How long is that 1v1 dps taking to kill you? Is it over as fast as a dps vs dps? I know my vanguard can live quite a while in a 1v1.

Do you think that just because your a tank you should win 1v1's? Whats the time to kill you at? How long is that 1v1 dps taking to kill you? Is it over as fast as a dps vs dps? I know my vanguard can live quite a while in a 1v1.

 

No but tanks with pvp survival gear should have a better survival rate than any other class, if a jugg hits me with a 5 k smash for example I still feel the impact just as much as any other class would, I notice my health drains rather rapidly against aggressive power/surge and critical base attacks such as a operatives backstab or a bounty hunter's tracer missiles, it's almost like my shield and absorb do absolutely nothing for me.

Edited January 14, 2013 by RaithHarth

I see what your saying. That 5k smash should be 5k on a dps but arounf 2.8 on you, in theory as the tank. I guess I don't warzone pvp enough, does our mitigation not mitigate most attacks?

Tanks are fine in PvP. Any rated group will ideally take 2 tanks, 2 heals, and 4 dps. This is the same composition that you typically see in 8 man ops. Tanks excel at solo guarding nodes, guarding heals, taunting other players to decrease damage done etc.

 

The default mods/enhancements on tank gear may not be ideal, and may require some extra grinding to get best in slot, but so do marauders, and most other classes.

 

And if you think that you take the same damage as a dps, you're just crazy. I smash sorcs for 6-8k. I smash tanks for 4k if I am lucky, and can go as low as 1k if they have cooldowns going.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Aluvi

I find my tank takes the flak quite well in pvp, very mobile, lots of options for slowing, stopping, stunning and grabbing threats to my guarded allies. I have backhand, choke, slow, push, smash and the shouts that reduce attack damage.

 

If i have all my damage mitigating defenses active, a pvp stim and a healing probe or two, I can attack an objective node and draw the attention of the entire team while my resolve bar is filled to full. You cant afford to ignore me, thats how you get aggro in pvp (among other ways). And when you are taking the hits, your allies are capping elsewhere, getting in free hits and mopping up.

 

Then there is hutball.... hard to stop, mobile and all the tools for putting people on their rears.

As a jedi shadow tank I'm finding it hard to actually tank solo even with full elite war hero survivor gear, but if I'm guarding a healer I have no problem, it seems we are easy pray when it comes to solo pvp something actually needs to be done about that, we need better tanking tools than what we already got.

 

There's your problem. Go dps set and you'll be fine.

edit.. Edited January 17, 2013 by Rilok_Singz