Edit: Looking over this again, it is way too long. I think this is important, so here's a TL;DR up front:

1. Time frame to gear up under 5.1.2 is way too long. Tier 1 - 5 weeks. Tier 2 - 8 Weeks. Tier 3 - 11 Weeks. Total: 6 months.

2. If you are releasing new gear 5 months after the last set, 6 months to complete gearing makes no sense.

3. WTH were you guys thinking?

Original post:

In 4.0, set bonus gear acquisition was very quick for a new player assuming you were willing to step into PVP. I think that remains true today - PVP is still the quickest way for an individual player to obtain set bonus gear. That makes it a baseline for the system IMO, and looking at that baseline, 5.1.2 is still far too slow given the rate at which they are implementing new tiers of gear.

In 4.0, assuming you had no WZ comms at the start, you could get a full set of 204 gear in 2-3 weeks with fairly casual playtime, and full 208s in another 2-3 weeks. If someone had a different experience, I’d love to hear it, but if I remember correctly, that’s roughly how long it took me to get my 4.0 gear. I didn’t start PVPing until literally the week before 4.0 dropped, so I was starting with essentially no WZ comms and definitely no set bonus gear at its release.

In 5.1.2, it looks like the gear acquisition rate for set bonus gear will remain significantly slower than what it was in 4.0, even for your initial set bonus. It takes 1130 UCs to get a full set of Tier 1 set bonus gear. Since BW is only awarding UCs for the first daily (more on that later), that means you get 124 UCs per week if you complete the daily every day and take the weekly. If you win all 14 matches, you get an additional 112. If you lose all 28 matches, you get an additional 84. So, that’s 208-236 UCs a week from dailies and the weekly, or 222 on average. 1130 / 222 = 5.1 weeks to obtain your initial set bonus gear. That’s basically double the time to get an initial set of gear under 4.0, and is too long as a baseline, worst-case scenario IMO.

So, while their initial announcement of the UC rates under 5.1.2 had the potential to at least resolve this issue as to your Tier 1 gear (3.3 weeks to initial set bonus gear if both dailies award 12 UCs, comparable to 4.0 time-frame), it doesn’t in practice. (BTW, nice job of letting some members of the playerbase assume both would award UCs without correcting them, BW. +1 for knowing when to remain silent, -10 goodwill to your paying customers and especially those who have tried to present a voice of reason in support of the game.)

Where it gets truly discouraging, however, is when you get to Tiers 2 and 3. It takes 1700 UCs to upgrade a full set of 230s into 236s. That’s nearly 8 weeks for Tier 2 alone. For Tier 3, it takes another 2555 UCs, or 11.3 weeks. Basically another 3 months. All told, under 5.1.2, end-game gearing potentially takes over 6 months to complete, as much as 6 times longer than under 4.0. That’s laughable when they appear to now be set on releasing new tiers of gear in a shorter time frame (5 months from 5.0 to 5.2).

The most shocking part of all of this to me, is that even if 5.1.2 had been implemented in lieu of 5.0 back in December, this would still be an issue for some players, because there still would not have been enough time for the unlucky to finish gearing before 5.2 drops, let alone have the opportunity to enjoy being fully geared for a while. With 5.1.2 dropping just 5 weeks before a new tier of gear is released, there isn’t remotely enough time for the unlucky to realistically finish gearing before that happens, to say nothing of those who had simply given up out of discouragement before 5.1.1 or 5.1.2. It is an extremely long hill to climb if you are coming to it late, no two ways about that, and the risk is that many will just say “f*ck it” and leave. That’s not good for any of us.

Now, this is all assuming you got incredibly unlucky and got no drops in any tier to shorten the time, which I know is incredibly unlikely. However, someone, somewhere, is going to have that experience, or one d*mned close to it. As we have seen from forum threads, it s*cks to be “that person,” and IMO there is something fundamentally wrong with a system that potentially subjects any of its paying customers to being “that person,” no matter how unlikely. Remember - you have to pay for this experience, it is not available to the F2P crowd, period.

Why would anyone implement a system that is guaranteed to make any of its paying customers feel like that? If someone can explain it to me, I’d love to hear the reasoning behind it, because it makes zero sense to me.

I have recently leveled a sentinel, and took me around a month to obtain a full set between GC and UC... I am talking 230 here.. Literally 100 GC levels. And no, I do not play 5-6 hours a day. More like 7-8 hours weekly, which is a lot to begin with.

At every single point in the game's history, prior to 5.0, that was less than a week exercise if not instant upon reaching max level. This is my biggest gripe with the GC system, cuz set bonuses are too strong to not have in PvP when the opposition does.

I think tier 2 is too expensive as well, but much less of an issue compared ti T1. T3 is priced right, but if we are adding T4 something has to change.

Why would anyone implement a system that is guaranteed to make any of its paying customers feel like that? If someone can explain it to me, I’d love to hear the reasoning behind it, because it makes zero sense to me.

Why? To quote BWA: "the Thrill of the hunt' or 'exciting' or 'rewarding'.

Why? Because I truly now believe no one at BWA understands math/statistics, game development, and/or plays SWTOR and they honestly don't realize that a player (me) who after 3 months and 250 ish command levels who has 6/14 slots still in crafted 228's/4.x set pieces or similar trash is going to feel anything other than excited to get another crate to disintegrate.

They are incompetents, they are clueless or they are deliberately trying to sink the game. Take your pick, I can't think of any other reason for the GC fiasco and BWA's unwillingness to make any meaningful changes to it at 3 months in.

I have recently leveled a sentinel, and took me around a month to obtain a full set between GC and UC... I am talking 230 here.. Literally 100 GC levels. And no, I do not play 5-6 hours a day. More like 7-8 hours weekly, which is a lot to begin with.

 

At every single point in the game's history, prior to 5.0, that was less than a week exercise if not instant upon reaching max level. This is my biggest gripe with the GC system, cuz set bonuses are too strong to not have in PvP when the opposition does.

 

I think tier 2 is too expensive as well, but much less of an issue compared ti T1. T3 is priced right, but if we are adding T4 something has to change.

Agree with all of this.

Now a returning or new player comes back and look at the massive grind they have to catch up even start to close the gear gap if they are PvPers. They essentially have to feed the players who are geared kills for weeks in PvP to get their crappy entry level set bonus gear. This is the exact *********** problem BW previously addressed and fixed. It makes no logical sense why they have gone backwards in 5.0 with gear gaps in PvP, RNG bags for gear ect. It's mind boggling.

This is such a drastic change from the alt friendly, PvP player friendly game I left last year at this time its hard to fathom how we got here. (Note I have left many times to play other games like W* or BDO but I have always kept my sub active to help support the game)

I recently started playing Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes. because why not, it has to be funner then grinding chapter 1 to get green gear in crates or pets. Seeing EAs business model in that game and how they toss pack options at you for $10, $20, $50, $100 and how people buy them and appear to love it, despite the RNG in some of the crap ones - of course almost all of them are horrible value.

Point being I feel like they wanted to try to incorporate what was working in that game and generating them massive profits without realizing doing a complete 180 in this game was going to piss off the player base.

In GoH people grind for weeks or months to get the heroes they want. As I sit here typing this I can see how they would think just making a massive non stop grind for gear for all of 5.0 would work, they collate the heroes to gear, add some CC options to speed up the boost and players in SWTOR will grind happily away just like in GoH. F2P mobile game logic applied to an MMO.

In 4.0, assuming you had no WZ comms at the start, you could get a full set of 204 gear in 2-3 weeks with fairly casual playtime, and full 208s in another 2-3 weeks. If someone had a different experience, I’d love to hear it, but if I remember correctly, that’s roughly how long it took me to get my 4.0 gear. I didn’t start PVPing until literally the week before 4.0 dropped, so I was starting with essentially no WZ comms and definitely no set bonus gear at its release.

 

In 5.1.2, it looks like the gear acquisition rate for set bonus gear will remain significantly slower than what it was in 4.0, even for your initial set bonus. It takes 1130 UCs to get a full set of Tier 1 set bonus gear.\

What? it takes 550 UC's at most for 6 set pieces. That's 2-3 weeks, just like 4.0.

What? it takes 550 UC's at most for 6 set pieces. That's 2-3 weeks, just like 4.0.

I am talking about the full set, not just the set bonus pieces. Just the set bonus pieces is 550, which takes about 2.5 weeks as you said. For MH, OH and the left side, it's another 2.5 weeks.

I am talking about the full set, not just the set bonus pieces. Just the set bonus pieces is 550, which takes about 2.5 weeks as you said. For MH, OH and the left side, it's another 2.5 weeks.

You needed those in 4.x because of expertise, but not in 5.x because of bolster.

You needed those in 4.x because of expertise, but not in 5.x because of bolster.

Based on what folks are saying about bolster, the blue and green 228s don't bolster very well, so I think there is an argument that you still need the full Tier 1 set. And, unless you get lucky with RNG, you definitely need them if you want to be able to upgrade to BIS at some point. /shrug, it's all subject to debate on some level, but my point is that this system can be grossly unfair to the unlucky, and the fixes they are implementing don't appear to change that in any meaningful way - certainly not for those who would like to be ready for 5.2.

What? it takes 550 UC's at most for 6 set pieces. That's 2-3 weeks, just like 4.0.

Considering in 4.0 that each piece was 500 WZ comms, if I remember correctly, that is a full set in less than week, which bolstered above the bolster. Now I need to farm for a month for a full set that is below bolster. Not even remotely close. Technically, 204 is comparable currently to 236, not 230.

In addition, why do people keep disregarding that you could collect comms before hitting max level before 5.0? Casual PvP for 5 levels used to be more than enough to get you first set upon hitting max level.

230 UC cost should literally to be slashed to 1/4 of its current costs.

Of course Gear Acquisition Rate is slow: It's 5.0's endgame.

Previously to attract subscribers:

3.0 Shadow Of Revan

4.0 had (semi) monthly story chapters, semi regular subscriber gifts

Now:

5.0 Open several hundred packs for a chance to win gear you will need to raid and pvp.

Set Bonus Gear Acquisition Rates Are Still Far Too Slow.

As you may have noticed Eric said they will increase the rate for Tier 4.

You just have to get to it

Did veteran mode fp today on merc who was around 70-80% to level 70. When fp ended I had gotten to command rank 8. Slow?

At the rate of 3100 (rounded) x 8 = 24000 CXP per hour it doesn't take long to get to tier 3.

Did veteran mode fp today on merc who was around 70-80% to level 70. When fp ended I had gotten to command rank 8. Slow?

 

At the rate of 3100 (rounded) x 8 = 24000 CXP per hour it doesn't take long to get to tier 3.

Yes 24,000 CXP per hour is slow, cuz:

You need like 15-20 crates for one set piece.

No guarantee it will be what you need if not a duplicate.

That CXP per level increases as GC levels up. You wont be getting more than 2 GC levels play per hour. And that is per toon.

I was GC 45 when the 250% CXP started. Now nearly a month later I am GC 137-138, and managed a full set with UCs around mid way through (around upper 70s GG). Again, big portion of my gear is still 230, which is below bolster in PvP, after almost 2 month and 400 - 500 WZs.

A new toon will need minimum 3-4 weeks at the current rate just to get full 230. No, this is not an appropriate pace.

Yes 24,000 CXP per hour is slow, cuz:

 

You need like 15-20 crates for one set piece.

No guarantee it will be what you need if not a duplicate.

That CXP per level increases as GC levels up. You wont be getting more than 2 GC levels play per hour. And that is per toon.

 

I was GC 45 when the 250% CXP started. Now nearly a month later I am GC 137-138, and managed a full set with UCs around mid way through (around upper 70s GG). Again, big portion of my gear is still 230, which is below bolster in PvP, after almost 2 month and 400 - 500 WZs.

 

A new toon will need minimum 3-4 weeks at the current rate just to get full 230. No, this is not an appropriate pace.

OR even worse. My toon was at level 75 ish when event started. The toon had 6 slots filled with Tier 1 BIS (4 set pieces) I am now at level 250 ish. I have 4 slots in Tier 1 BIS, 1 slot in Tier 2 (purple set) and 3 slots in Tier 3 (gold relic and mainhand, purple ear) 8 slots filled in 250 levels, no 5.x full set bonus and 4 slots in 230 set bonus, 4 slots in Tier 2/3. At this rate, and with the duplicates I constantly see I would be lucky to get all 14 slots filled from GC in less than 500 levels or more. And for all we know I've had good luck (better than average) with GC because BWA isn't disclosing drop rates.

Set piece bonus gear drop rates should be increased for all tiers and right now. I know others have opened a lot more crates than I have, but at nearly 4th months into the GC world, I've opened about 330 crates and have only gotten about 11 set piece bonus items (that includes all tiers). I play a lot of pvp, and even so, have only been able purchase three of the 242 pieces through the unassembled/command tokens route.

I don't enjoy things these days, and of course, I can't go play an alt because why the heck would I want to start the galactic crap level grind over again at tier 1 for a different toon? If I'm going to subject myself to the torture of doing anything in this game now, why wouldn't I want it to drop the crap from the highest tier?

I am talking about the full set, not just the set bonus pieces. Just the set bonus pieces is 550, which takes about 2.5 weeks as you said. For MH, OH and the left side, it's another 2.5 weeks.

Took me a week, but i play around 3 hours a night. By the second week I had almost full 236.

Also, the set bonuses are pure crap for melee dps. They literally aren't worth the time it took to program them.

Took me a week, but i play around 3 hours a night. By the second week I had almost full 236.

 

Also, the set bonuses are pure crap for melee dps. They literally aren't worth the time it took to program them.

2 weeks to full 236? Then you are the luckiest player I have heard of, which is certainly possible with RNG, but very unlikely and thus not useful as a baseline. That's the entire problem with making RNG the baseline progression mechanic. It makes haves and have-nots based on nothing more than luck.

Took me a week, but i play around 3 hours a night. By the second week I had almost full 236.

 

Also, the set bonuses are pure crap for melee dps. They literally aren't worth the time it took to program them.

Set bonus are pure crap? WTH is this nonsense you are talking about?! They range between 5-7% damage/healing for all classes.

Also, 3 hours per day per toon is way too much time. You do understand that normal people do not do that, right? So now gearing should be tailored towards people who have nothing else to do but grind for hours a day?!

2 weeks to full 236? Then you are the luckiest player I have heard of, which is certainly possible with RNG, but very unlikely and thus not useful as a baseline. That's the entire problem with making RNG the baseline progression mechanic. It makes haves and have-nots based on nothing more than luck.

Most of my 230's came from UC and less from crates, but only 2 of my 236 came from UC, the rest from crates.

Set bonus are pure crap? WTH is this nonsense you are talking about?! They range between 5-7% damage/healing for all classes.

2% dmg increase for 15 seconds out of every 30 is nothing. 2 energy cost reduction on one ability is nothing. One auto crit once a minute is nothing, especially considering my natural crit rate has that ability critting every other use if not more. Pure.crap.

Also, 3 hours per day per toon is way too much time. You do understand that normal people do not do that, right? So now gearing should be tailored towards people who have nothing else to do but grind for hours a day?!

People that expected to be geared in prior patches did much more than that. If you're playing less than that, you shouldn't be complaining about not getting gear fast enough.

Most of my 230's came from UC and less from crates, but only 2 of my 236 came from UC, the rest from crates.

You bought nearly your entire set of 230s in a week? That's definitely more than 3 hours a night. And all of your 236s but 2 out of crates in a week? Like I said, you are the luckiest player I have heard of. Definitely not baseline experience either for RNG or hours played.

You bought nearly your entire set of 230s in a week? That's definitely more than 3 hours a night. And all of your 236s but 2 out of crates in a week? Like I said, you are the luckiest player I have heard of. Definitely not baseline experience either for RNG or hours played.

My first 70 (smuggler) had 5/7 set pieces by rank 70, all but one from crates.

And yes, I bought I think 4 of the seven with UC in about a week on my Vanguard. It's really not as much of a grind as people make it out to be. I started fresh with this Vanguard, hit 70 on Coruscant, and am still doing all the planetary missions and pvp/gsf. From start to finish of Taris, for instance, I had over 300 UC. I created this guy a little over two weeks ago and hit GC rank 160 last night. I do pvp a lot, he is now valor rank 65.

My playtime starts about 630 pm Central time, i play for about an hour then make/eat dinner, then i'm back on around 8 and play till around 10 or 1030, I do play a lot more on weekends.

My first 70 (smuggler) had 5/7 set pieces by rank 70, all but one from crates.

 

And yes, I bought I think 4 of the seven with UC in about a week on my Vanguard. It's really not as much of a grind as people make it out to be. I started fresh with this Vanguard, hit 70 on Coruscant, and am still doing all the planetary missions and pvp/gsf. From start to finish of Taris, for instance, I had over 300 UC. I created this guy a little over two weeks ago and hit GC rank 160 last night. I do pvp a lot, he is now valor rank 65.

 

My playtime starts about 630 pm Central time, i play for about an hour then make/eat dinner, then i'm back on around 8 and play till around 10 or 1030, I do play a lot more on weekends.

It's all relative. I play more than average too, although not as much as you. I think I've also been luckier than average, but I think the important question is what happens on average and to the unlucky.

In 5.1.2, it looks like the gear acquisition rate for set bonus gear will remain significantly slower than what it was in 4.0, even for your initial set bonus. It takes 1130 UCs to get a full set of Tier 1 set bonus gear. Since BW is only awarding UCs for the first daily (more on that later), that means you get 124 UCs per week if you complete the daily every day and take the weekly. If you win all 14 matches, you get an additional 112. If you lose all 28 matches, you get an additional 84. So, that’s 208-236 UCs a week from dailies and the weekly, or 222 on average. 1130 / 222 = 5.1 weeks to obtain your initial set bonus gear. That’s basically double the time to get an initial set of gear under 4.0, and is too long as a baseline, worst-case scenario IMO.

The difference is that 5.0 is a hybrid of 3 systems (crates, UC & OP tokens). So it's understandable that you get worse results if you limit yourself on a single aspect.

F.e. let's assume you could transform crates or the content into UCs. Your result would be quite different. So it's more a question if BioWare wants to encourage you to use all aspects, if they should include more conversion options, or if they should focus on a single approach/aspect as well and make sure that one works properly.