Jump to content

BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?


Dovahbrah

Recommended Posts

Before the buff to Focus/Rage, Rage Juggs were known to be a strong spec when played right but weren't exactly super popular. Only the very dedicated played the spec...

 

Not even close bub. Can you even read my post correctly? I referred to Marauders not Juggs. Large numbers of Mara/Sents were transitioning to Rage/Focus before the buff, but since they also had to grind a new set of gear, they were underperforming. And hence, meta averages for the spec were down and the buff occurred.

 

As for your numbers stating that Merc/Commando does the most damage, I need some proof...without some hard proof that BW is relying .... on ingame metrics, your entire theory, and by extension all your crazy rants on the subject, don't hold much water.

 

As someone who generates probably 90+% of the Merc Pyro meta average on my server, I can conclusively state that Merc Pyro damage averages on my server are higher than any other subclass. For the vast majority of the player base who actually pays attention, BW's notorious statements about classes being within 5% of each other in damage output, about KDR and about precisely monitoring the number of stun lock kills is more than sufficient evidence that BW uses ingame collected statistics to drive class (im)balance management. You, it is clear, feel that I have somehow but a burr up your backspout with math and statistics. It's too bad. But math and statistics will continue to exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 2.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

What Bioware does not comprehend is that player migration causes a inverse relationship between buffs and class performance. The more a class is buffed, the more new players/rerolls surge towards that class. The influx of undergeared, inexperienced players lowers that classes meta average productivity - which is what BW measures. Conversely, when a class is nerfed, the people who leave that class are the worst players using that class - as they are the ones who now find the class non-viable. The ones who remain are the best geared, most skilled players. Thus the meta average productivity for a nerfed class actually RISES.

 

As I've said before, I think you've probably hit the nail on the head with this one. On the plus side IF we ever do get fixes, the resulting influx of crap players to the AC will probably lead to a chain of further buffs later heh.

 

Silly Bioware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not even close bub. Can you even read my post correctly? I referred to Marauders not Juggs. Large numbers of Mara/Sents were transitioning to Rage/Focus before the buff, but since they also had to grind a new set of gear, they were underperforming. And hence, meta averages for the spec were down and the buff occurred.

 

Again source? I don't recall there being a huge influx of mara/sents switching over to smash spec before the buff. I recall a metric TON of them the day AFTER they buffed the spec. Your logic is severely flawed. They don't buff classes cause FotMers are driving down meta averages. FotMers flock to classes which have been buffed and away from classes which have been nerfed. But maybe I'm wrong. Since you clearly have access to all their data though maybe you can provide the exact number of derp smashers in the weeks leading up to 1.3 along with their accompanying meta-averages.

 

I didn't PVP back before 1.2 but apparently there used to be a ton of TM/GR spammers. Would not a ton of untalented spammers have lowered the meta-average and thus not drawn the ire of the nerf bat. But there WAS a ton of QQ about it.

 

 

 

As someone who generates probably 90+% of the Merc Pyro meta average on my server, I can conclusively state that Merc Pyro damage averages on my server are higher than any other subclass. For the vast majority of the player base who actually pays attention, BW's notorious statements about classes being within 5% of each other in damage output, about KDR and about precisely monitoring the number of stun lock kills is more than sufficient evidence that BW uses ingame collected statistics to drive class (im)balance management. You, it is clear, feel that I have somehow but a burr up your backspout with math and statistics. It's too bad. But math and statistics will continue to exist.

 

Proof? You do good in warzones, have access to every single merc and commando on your server, have access to literally everyone else's numbers server wide, and can thus conclusively show that Merc/Commando meta average is higher than every other subclass? Go ahead. Post your data and it's source.

 

Also I never said they didn't use their infamous metrics. I said you make a wild claim when you think they just collect a bunch of data, take a meta-average, and then no matter what anyone else is saying, buff or nerf based solely on that. That little blurb about K/D ratio that got everyone in a huff? That came from a guy whose ENTIRE JOB is to take all that data they're collecting and properly interpret it and analyze it and turn that analysis over to the people who need it. You're assuming that this is all done in a vacuum.

 

You know what the thing is about math? You have to make assumptions which are actually valid and you have to prove your claims. If there's a "burr up my backspout" it's because you're doing it wrong. I certainly hope math isn't going anywhere, because I'm depending on it for job security.

 

You've taken the knowledge that they collect tons of data from ingame. You know they've made a ton of absolutely idiotic class balance changes. You've then taken that knowledge and concluded that this is the only thing they're using for balance, and that the guys in charge of interpreting the data are also quite stupid.

 

Now your conclusion might actually be true, but you have to prove it, which you haven't done. You just post your theory over and over as if it's self evident fact, with no proof needed or given, and then operate based on your conclusion which so far as I can tell has not been validly reached.

 

In addition to being an example of how not to do logic, this is just counterproductive because you might be the guy standing on a large soap box loudly exhorting the masses not to burn all their crops. They weren't gonna do that yo. BW may or may not be doing class balance based solely on this mythical meta-average. If they are, then fine, you're right to tell them to stop doing that. If they aren't, then every post you spend talking about this just distracts from the issue.

 

So before bothering to tell them not to do that we should be assured that that is what they're doing. I personally don't think they are. You're blatantly asserting that in point of fact they are. Your claim, your burden of proof.

 

So. Source?

Edited by ArchangelLBC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

there has been a steady shift of population towards mara/jugg/assassin/powertech over the last 6 months or so. 1.3 really started the change, as it became clear which classes would make up the perfect compositions.

 

no one can *prove* any of the theories that get thrown around on the forums. unless it is something a dev said specifically, it is all conjecture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there has been a steady shift of population towards mara/jugg/assassin/powertech over the last 6 months or so. 1.3 really started the change, as it became clear which classes would make up the perfect compositions.

 

no one can *prove* any of the theories that get thrown around on the forums. unless it is something a dev said specifically, it is all conjecture.

 

That's fine but you can't treat conjecture as fact, because that's also how math works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably not.

 

So I would place the blame on individuals that have never, or very rarely, played a commando.

 

There is no blame here... the devs pulls a ripe stinker there with that change. What a piss poor idea to change our escapability...really friggin dumb.

Edited by Aaoogaa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

there has been a steady shift of population towards mara/jugg/assassin/powertech over the last 6 months or so. 1.3 really started the change, as it became clear which classes would make up the perfect compositions.

 

no one can *prove* any of the theories that get thrown around on the forums. unless it is something a dev said specifically, it is all conjecture.

 

After seeing most of what the devs have posted since launch I really wouldn't take what they say as proof that thinks are right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Proof? ... you have to prove it, which you haven't done. You just post your theory over and over as if it's self evident fact, with no proof needed or given

 

According to this line of thinking, you need to *PROVE* that PowerShot is better than RapidShots since you've repeated that over and over. Oh wait, I proved it wasn't. By using.....MATH. And when faced with that numerical proof, you simply ignored it and repeated your "articles of faith". Which is exactly what would happen here if I tallied the next hundred warzone matches on my server with Merc Pyros in it. You aren't looking for proof, you are just fighting a rear guard action out of stubbornness.

 

You don't like my theory? Then ignore it. Ignore the fact that it explains why BW habitually double nerfs classes. Ignore the fact that it explains why BW buffs skill trees that the top PvP players acknowledge are already the most powerful. Ignore how players migrate between classes. And ignore the fact that BW periodically touts their ingame stat collection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My commando is my 2nd 50 and frankly the leapers screw me over. Sure I can Kb and SLOW them down until they get within their melee range. My cryo grenade stuns (can be broken) then I am left with my root that sticks them for a good 2-3 sec for 1 grav round shot to hit them. Point is trying to kite a melee class as a commando is pointless I get smashed and Juggs/Guards are worse as they are immune to every single defensive ability we have (root/stun). I am tired of being a glass cannon and just being destroyed by level 20s who get the jump and I cannot do anything with their leaping ability or their snipe-n-win. I would like to have my full auto to root and my root to go back to a KB, it was nice to Kb and being able to move back a bit to get a shot in.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to this line of thinking, you need to *PROVE* that PowerShot is better than RapidShots since you've repeated that over and over. Oh wait, I proved it wasn't. By using.....MATH. And when faced with that numerical proof, you simply ignored it and repeated your "articles of faith". Which is exactly what would happen here if I tallied the next hundred warzone matches on my server with Merc Pyros in it. You aren't looking for proof, you are just fighting a rear guard action out of stubbornness.

 

You don't like my theory? Then ignore it. Ignore the fact that it explains why BW habitually double nerfs classes. Ignore the fact that it explains why BW buffs skill trees that the top PvP players acknowledge are already the most powerful. Ignore how players migrate between classes. And ignore the fact that BW periodically touts their ingame stat collection.

 

 

Except Cash proved you wrong. Pretty conclusively. Using numbers which YOU ignored, and without even bringing up the big fact that Charged Bolts resets HiB while Hammershot doesn't. But hey maybe I didn't follow that argument well enough. I'm a grad student. I spend most days looking at proofs, thinking one thing, and then being shown I'm wrong. Hash out your argument again. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. Do it every single day.

 

There are plenty of theories which explain why BW habitually double nerfs classes, buffs skill trees that top PVP players acknowledge are already the most powerful, explains why and how players migrate between classes, and takes into account BW's ingame stat collection. Some of them even explain the reasoning behind hair brained moves like the stockstrike nerf. Why should I believe your nonsense over any of the other competing theories? Proof or go home because real math isn't about numbers, it's about proof.

 

If we want to say "well here's my conjecture, and while I can't conclusively prove it, here are some reasons you should believe it", then by all means go ahead. It's not mathematically rigorous, but then cash is right that we aren't going to be getting any mathematical certainties out of such speculating. Make your case. Why is your theory any more valid than the theory that they class balance by throwing darts at a wall, then use their metrics to retroactively justify anything they do since statisticians can make the numbers say whatever they want if they pick the right numbers and put the right spin on things?

Edited by ArchangelLBC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all hope but ... i told you :) Hate saying it. They gave us NOTHING. It's ok, coz i'll play my commando anyway. Don't feel i'm ready to change him tho he sux. My damage is still fine and still i'm better than a 14k recruit. Ofc i'm piece of shi* in comparison with other same geared classes but what else can we do?

 

Time to start waiting for 1.7 i guess. Buy popcorn.... lots of it. The waiting is gonna be a long one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it wrong to think we are the best players in this game right now (those that can keep up with losmashers and PT/VG in damage and objective in warzones?) I mean, I know I normally come in top 3 in 90% of my Warzones. I am just curious what would happen if we decided to not be gods in this terrible class. I think we would crap on people on such a height they would think it was god sh*tting all over them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it wrong to think we are the best players in this game right now (those that can keep up with losmashers and PT/VG in damage and objective in warzones?) I mean, I know I normally come in top 3 in 90% of my Warzones. I am just curious what would happen if we decided to not be gods in this terrible class. I think we would crap on people on such a height they would think it was god sh*tting all over them.

 

Awesome, 90% huh. Prove that this all occured in 50+ ranked, and I'll acknowledge your superiority.

 

Because, to be honest, Ive yet to play a class that I couldnt consistently place in the top 3 in, on the nonranked lvl10-49 bracket that is.

 

Which is, for all intents and purposes, moot, given the subject at hand.

Edited by Variden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome, 90% huh. Prove that this all occured in 50+ ranked, and I'll acknowledge your superiority.

 

Because, to be honest, Ive yet to play a class that I couldnt consistently place in the top 3 in, on the nonranked lvl10-49 bracket that is.

 

Which is, for all intents and purposes, moot, given the subject at hand.

 

i guarantee you 100% that none of it happened in Ranked.

 

Ranked warzones are a melee smash derpfest. non-ranked wzs are marginally better, but over the last month or so the number of melee players in even non-ranked wzs is increasing. try taking a merc into ranked pvp, and you will get stomped into oblivion

 

the only people left playing mercs are the ones that have invested the most time. so its probably a safe bet to say the majority of mercs are at least above average skill level

Edited by cashogy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome, 90% huh. Prove that this all occured in 50+ ranked, and I'll acknowledge your superiority.

 

Because, to be honest, Ive yet to play a class that I couldnt consistently place in the top 3 in, on the nonranked lvl10-49 bracket that is.

 

Which is, for all intents and purposes, moot, given the subject at hand.

 

here i am trying to compliment everyone who has a merc/mando as a main, and yet we have someone trying to spout garbage.

 

and I was being modest its more like 98%

Edited by Bluntron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i guarantee you 100% that none of it happened in Ranked.

 

Ranked warzones are a melee smash derpfest. non-ranked wzs are marginally better, but over the last month or so the number of melee players in even non-ranked wzs is increasing.

 

the only people left playing mercs are the ones that have invested the most time. so its probably a safe bet to say the majority of mercs are at least above average skill level

 

ya I cant get into a rwz to save my life but thats sololy because I am dps and not healz.

 

And you are correct the only reason why I still focus on my merc is because he is EW. I rather not regrind to Warlord.

 

And that's my point I wonder if we would embarrass the lolsmashers and PT/VG even more if we played the same classes as them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BW will address DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise when they nerf smash smash smash on PVP, that will be... let me see.... NEVER

how long this class is like this on PVP?how long others FOTM classes stay like that?

i lost hope in BW class balance, and when they do it, they ruin it on PVE,look at shadow tanks because PVP they put the best tank(PVE) in the game to is knees, now they are a mirage and operatives too, sure they to the job, but now they are the last resource on any OP

Edited by ErosGyne
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah, they won't address anything.

 

Commandos/Mercenaries will continue to be the laughing stock of pvp, serving only to feed the inflated egos of bubble-sorcs, rage mara/jugs...and pretty much every other class(provided they have a brain).

 

It's a joke having top damage as commando almost every pug game and losing because the sents/sages on your team are garbage. Guess that's all this game is about...rolling sorcerer, marauder, or juggernaut then acting like it takes skill.

 

This game doesn't take skill. Just the right class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...