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UltraFlashStar's Avatar


UltraFlashStar
08.01.2019 , 12:53 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
Turned out as I expected
They have to make it deal massive damage because its doing less about -10k damage than Corrosive Assault + 2 Dots + regular Toxic Blast on hit. And, if anything, it should be +20k compared to the usual attack that Leth does.
But they won't, so this tactical is basically going to acumulate dust in the vendors.
Actually strangely enough Iím parsing more with this tactical rather than without it. Iíve actually be able to beat people in duels with this. It works greatly against other Scoundrels because they usually clear your dots before you can do anything with them. Though it feels quite clunky at times I feel like the cool down increase should be at 3-5 seconds instead of 9. And with the Tactical Set Bonus (increase UHs to 3) you really never run out of UHs.
Coppes
STAR WARS: The Last Ruffian

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
08.01.2019 , 01:09 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by UltraFlashStar View Post
Actually strangely enough Iím parsing more with this tactical rather than without it. Iíve actually be able to beat people in duels with this. It works greatly against other Scoundrels because they usually clear your dots before you can do anything with them. Though it feels quite clunky at times I feel like the cool down increase should be at 3-5 seconds instead of 9. And with the Tactical Set Bonus (increase UHs to 3) you really never run out of UHs.
1 : I doubt you're parsing higher with it. I highly doubt it. A tactical that is meant to just lower your over all dps in trade of burst abilities? Sorry, but not a good troll.

2 : You could always beat people with it rather easily? Even against other Ops.

3 : The damage is still ridiculously low to what it does.

UltraFlashStar's Avatar


UltraFlashStar
08.01.2019 , 01:46 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
1 : I doubt you're parsing higher with it. I highly doubt it. A tactical that is meant to just lower your over all dps in trade of burst abilities? Sorry, but not a good troll.

2 : You could always beat people with it rather easily? Even against other Ops.

3 : The damage is still ridiculously low to what it does.
1. Letís compare numbers

2. But with Ruffian it took way long band was tenuous when someone cleansed your dots, attests now itís more versatile.

3. No it isnít, itís doing the same damage your dots are doing but now itís just instant.

And calling anyone you has a different experience/thought than you a troll isnít good discussion.
Coppes
STAR WARS: The Last Ruffian

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
08.01.2019 , 03:00 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by UltraFlashStar View Post
1. Letís compare numbers

2. But with Ruffian it took way long band was tenuous when someone cleansed your dots, attests now itís more versatile.

3. No it isnít, itís doing the same damage your dots are doing but now itís just instant.

And calling anyone you has a different experience/thought than you a troll isnít good discussion.
The troll part is mostly because I had feedback from other five friends of mine saying the same thing as I said. Don't take it bad but I'm surprised as you say the raw damage is higher when you have lower output in sustained damage.

1 : Could you make 2 parses with and without the tactical?

2 : I never found difficulty in taking down other operatives and some of the matches were relatively short. Its tenuous already, regardless of spec. My longest duel as Leth vs Conceal was 51 minutes and won it and as Conceal vs Conceal was 38 minutes and lost it. And it was basically me getting back into shape for duels and was a while ago.

3 : The Corrosive assault is doing more damage if everything is setup than this attack. From personal experience, the new attack has been doing was -17% at best and that's generally what Corrosive Assault also does. Can you make an estimative of how much % it saps off of someone on your side? And I'm doing the best setup possible -> Shiv -> Both dots -> Lethal Strike -> Toxic Blast.

UltraFlashStar's Avatar


UltraFlashStar
08.01.2019 , 04:18 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
The troll part is mostly because I had feedback from other five friends of mine saying the same thing as I said. Don't take it bad but I'm surprised as you say the raw damage is higher when you have lower output in sustained damage.

1 : Could you make 2 parses with and without the tactical?

2 : I never found difficulty in taking down other operatives and some of the matches were relatively short. Its tenuous already, regardless of spec. My longest duel as Leth vs Conceal was 51 minutes and won it and as Conceal vs Conceal was 38 minutes and lost it. And it was basically me getting back into shape for duels and was a while ago.

3 : The Corrosive assault is doing more damage if everything is setup than this attack. From personal experience, the new attack has been doing was -17% at best and that's generally what Corrosive Assault also does. Can you make an estimative of how much % it saps off of someone on your side? And I'm doing the best setup possible -> Shiv -> Both dots -> Lethal Strike -> Toxic Blast.
1.I have tried it multiple times within the 5 hours I have been on the PTS server.

3. Until you can show me a screenshot or some other proof of BS doing more damage than 35k I wonít believe you
Coppes
STAR WARS: The Last Ruffian

Iymurra's Avatar


Iymurra
08.01.2019 , 08:25 PM | #16
Thinking I might toss a little feedback lethality's way.
Heres an extremely low-effort log. First dummy to see how poison overload was read by starparse. Second to use poison overload tactical. Third to run with no tacticals. Fourth with the 50% boost to Toxic Blast damage.
http://parsely.io/parser/view/445867/3

My feelings on the tacticals:
Our version of Poison Choke sucks to use. In the i270 gear (what we get from the vendors) it hits for around 15k to 20k depending on how many gcds elapse between refreshing corrosive grenade and corrosive dart (upper limit on crit probably approaches 30k). However, you lose a tactical advantage as TB has its cooldown increased by 9s (15 -> 24) so over the course of a fight you'll use TB up to 60% more often. Additionally we've got to talk about the opportunity cost. As it currently functions TB forces CD and CG to do the remaining damage immediately. This means that this ability should never be used if its damage will be less than a Corrosive Assault CA was ticking for 10k on a crit for me, 5k without, each of the Dots ticked for either 2k or 3k (crit). Thats a bare minimum of 9k with a more likely average of 12k per hit. So TB should never be used with 4 seconds remaining. DoT durations are 24 seconds apiece, dots must be reapplied every 24 seconds, TB new cooldown is 24 seconds. So you'll end up clipping to reapply before TB, then reapplying after TB. You lose out on TB hits as you'll have fewer GCDs under a TB window to use CA or Lethal Strike.

Napkin wise its a burst tactical that should increase your potential kill threshold in PvP, but its going to hurt sustainable rotations... alot. Killing those dots means you don't have energy generation outside of passive ticks for a GCD or two, waste GCDs reapplying the dots, and have less TA generation per period of time. I can't think of a way to use it in a PvE setting to make the class do more damage over anything more than a 10s window. (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just means I don't want to think about it.)

Synox Shots (TB does 50% more damage) is noticable but fails to meaningfully impact the rotation. It succeeds as a damage boost but utterly fails to be "gameplay defining" in any way.

The AoE thing... Lethal Strike while in Toxic Haze is a nice bit of AoE pressure and gets a pass from me I suppose.

TeenageGnome's Avatar


TeenageGnome
08.01.2019 , 10:32 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by memerobot View Post
If you put it in current patch terms, you'd be making your Toxic blast tick for more 500 damage if non crit and more 1000 damage if crit.

It's not that much of a "buff". Only noticeable in PvE and even still, not that great.
Ah yep just had a chance to test it and I see what you guys are saying.

I got a higher parse using the toxic haze one that increases lethal strike damage by incorporating toxic haze into my single target rotation. It seems that this tactical is worse at single target and aoe damage which makes it completely pointless to use in pve and pvp.

Isagoras's Avatar


Isagoras
08.02.2019 , 01:47 AM | #18
About the medicine operative I tried the Diagnotics probe tactical item in flashpoint and warzone

"Activating Surgical Probe reduces the cast time of the next Kolto Injection by .25 seconds. At 3 stacks, Kolto Injection can be cast instantly."

From what I have seen ingame a stack has a duration of 6 sec. I think it's too short. Why not a permanent stack like the advanced prototype powertech thing. Otherwise I could be happy with a duration of 12 sec. I remind everyone than Surgical probe needs a tactical advantage (so 3 TA to have 1 instant Kolto injection) and the buff of kolto infusion to be really useful and I don't even speak of the energy management.

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
08.02.2019 , 07:02 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by UltraFlashStar View Post
3. Until you can show me a screenshot or some other proof of BS doing more damage than 35k I wonít believe you
A small analysis of the attacks.

Notes before checking screenies:
1 - Don't mind the gear. I know very well its a bad setup. Couldn't bother gearing properly as I just wanted to test the abilities and how they work, nothing more.
2 - Don't mind the tactical either.

List of abilities:

1 - Corrosive Dart:
1.1 - No Crit : https://prnt.sc/onglmf
1.2 - Crit : https://prnt.sc/ongffu
1.3 - Crit + Lethal Strike buff: https://prnt.sc/onggco

2 - Corrosive Grenade
2.1 - No Crit : https://prnt.sc/ongmnr
2.2 - Crit : https://prnt.sc/onggy6 <- There was a double tick and one was higher than the other because relic proc
2.3 - Crit + Lethal Strike buff: https://prnt.sc/onghi9

3 - Toxic Haze + Toxic Blast:
3.1 - Toxic Haze No Crit + Toxic Blast Crit: https://prnt.sc/ongidl
3.2 - Toxic Haze Crit + Toxic Blast No Crit: https://prnt.sc/ongj2w
3.3 - Toxic Haze + Lethal Strike buff: https://prnt.sc/ongjr2 <- I have no idea whats with the 3.8k hit but it was there, for some reason. The 8k hit is the Toxic Haze one. The debuff from is also applied but Toxic Haze is considered internal damage, not Tech, thus is not affected or shouldn't be. If it does, it's 5% so whatever.

4 - Corrosive Assault:
4.1 - Corrosive Assault No Crit: https://prnt.sc/ongkkf
4.2 - Corrosive Assault Crit: https://prnt.sc/ongev1

This is simply a short review of the attacks individually. Anyway, for the math time now...

For your burstier attack with Corrosive Assault, you'd have used Shiv + Corrosive Dart + Corrosive Grenade + Toxic Haze + 3x Toxic Blast(one per dot) + Lethal Strike + Corrosive Assault.
Put everything in crit state ( it should be easy to have 70% crit chance on your dots so its easy to have everything crit, over all. The only uncertainties is the Corrosive Assault and Toxic Blast) and you got your high CA hit. And as doubtful as it may sound, it happens more often than you'd believe.
And, don't forget this fact, the chance of double tick is also applied to Corrosive Assault while I haven't verified that in Toxic Blast, when boosted by the tactical item.


PS: I noticed that the burst attack can be nice if EVERY tick goes into crit. IIRC, I saw a -60k HP in a target. Still, not worth it due to the reasons I presented due to how the rotation/sustained damage will work, most likely, over all damage is going to be toned down. Devs already said this.

Pizza_boy's Avatar


Pizza_boy
08.02.2019 , 03:00 PM | #20
As a followup to my post from yesterday about operative healing, I tried the Toxic Haze heal set bonus today and was pleasantly surprised. This set bonus seems quite strong for group healing. I also found that given that toxic haze takes up a tactical advantage, Regenerative Waves does not work too well with this set bonus. Because of this, I strongly urge you to relook at the Critical Surgery tactical. If this tactical was not as limited to only work when someone was sub 35% health, it could pair up very nicely with this set bonus.

As another thought, when Regenerative Waves is utilized, the Tactical Medicine proc from the operative skill tree is not being given. The passive says: "Executing a Tactical Advantage with a healing ability increases all healing done by 3% for 6 seconds". It would be nice if kolto waves were added to the list of healing abilities when the tactical is equipped.
Laet
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