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Is RE broke?


Priam

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I've reverse engineered about 40 green bastion enhancement 22's today and still have not gained the blue schematic version. Normally takes less than 10 to get the blue.

 

 

If this was an intended change, you'd think it would have made it into the patch notes. Perhaps I just missed it.

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More people have been reporting difficulty obtaining lvl 48/49/50 blue/purple schematics since the game released, it has nothing to do with the patch. So far it looks like the highest lvl items are quite a bit more difficult to RE than all lower level stuff. You're just unlucky, keep trying.
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It is very random.

 

I have been trying to get some purple level color crystals for my guildies these past few days, and just now got the blue schematic after farming 30 or so crystals, when is only took about 8 crystals to disassembled to get the purple schematic for the crystal I needed.

 

 

 

It is just very random, so keep trying.

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Das ist definitiv gebrochen. Patch 1.1 hat offentsichtlich nen verteckten Nerf zum diesen RE Proc.

 

Habe gestern fast alle materialien das ich noch hatte spasesweise REd - kein eizigen Proc.

 

 

Aber das passt doch ganz gut zur BW "Verschlimbesserung" Muster - die geben nicht sinnlichkeit für die Berufe - die nehmen es weg. Die geben keine gute Rezepte, die nehmen es bloß weg.

 

Was ist aber hasse - diesen "Grandfathering" effect - wo die erste "rushers" das 10 mal leichter haben als Rest :)

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I've reverse engineered about 40 green bastion enhancement 22's today and still have not gained the blue schematic version. Normally takes less than 10 to get the blue.

 

If this was an intended change, you'd think it would have made it into the patch notes. Perhaps I just missed it.

You think that`s bad?! Yesterday (before the patch) I had to reverse engineer at least 30 green resolve armoring 14 to get a blue schematic! I really wanted to upgrade my gear with a purple ones but the potential costs of required underworld metals made me think whether it`s worth it... All in all it seems that a success rate of RE is highly dependant on luck or lack thereof. And the situation you are describing is probably far from being the worst case of bad luck.
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REing right now seems to function on a probably flat rate of percentage chance to get a schematic of the next tier. My spreadsheet tracking RE success/fail rates with Armormech's suggesting roughly a 5% success rate on green to blue.

 

I don't have a data sample even vaguely sufficient to start hypothesizing on blue to purple yet. Gonna take a lot longer to make and RE a couple thousand of those to get even a good start on establishing a valid sample for the data set.

 

I will say this though: REing blues to purples will, especially the high level varieties, create the perception of a lower success rate due to the far greater amounts of time involved to craft the dang things, and the costs of the components, and the time it takes to either farm them or crew mission for them.

 

That bias is a bad thing for them to have built right into their framework on something that seems to be an open-ended RNG lottery. You could, it seems, RE 10,000 things and never get a blue recipe; same for blue to purple.

 

Or you could get one, and not have it be the right secondary stat title set and then potentially never see the one you want pop.

 

It's very frustrating if you're trying to make specific things. As a metric for time investment, they made it a casino game.

 

This suggests to me that, perhaps, they ought to do a better job of taking a true validation sample of their playerbase rather than assuming that gambling will hold us and kepe us coming back for more. The success of casinos and lotteries works, yes...but not on the majority of the population.

 

And nobody short of a gambling addict would find this RE system appealing. You stand to win nothing worth the time and effort you might expend very little of...or a shockingly outrageous amount of.

 

I think RE'ing should have a 'streakbreaker' mechanic built into it. If you haven't gotten a next tier schematic by 20 RE's, it autopops one on the 21st attempt. Maybe not the one you want, but certainly.

 

That kind of assuredness that, even if our luck is crap, we'll eventually get what we're shooting for generates confidence in a system, and heightens its appeal. Frankly, it also makes it a more predictive system that's easier to account for in design metrics, so it would quite probably benefit -them- for taking into account the impact of changes and desired time/money investments in future changes to cap it on both sides.

 

Otherwise...well, I've gotten all the craft skills to 400 and RE'd a lot of things across my three accounts, 4 50's and a half-dozen alts. I spent the majority of my entire holiday leave time very specifically analyzing and feeling out...and yes, also enjoying the storylines...in this here new giant kid on the MMO block. A lot.

 

Most of my focus in the crafting arena has been on Armormech, which I will be tracking in the very long-term for purposes of informing myself accurately, so I've got a rather decent grasp so far of whats involved here.

 

I don't think REing is broken. It's probably WAI. Unfortunately, the intention seems to have been poorly directed and badly designed, and failed somewhat pitifully to account for basic factors of appeal and positive motivators that any market strategist could plainly tell you are vital to a market investment.

 

And that's what it is; you're investing with every moment you spend doing anything in this game in your character or chatacters, presumably for the purpose of being rewarded with enjoyment and a sense of fun.

 

They referenced, I think, back-alley casinos and the methods of sheisters with their massive proliferation of no-certainty gambles across the entire game, but most viciously and recurringly in craft REing.

 

We wanna craft, Bioware, not appease gambling addictions I'd surmise many of us do not have. Just...to throw that out there.

 

Cheers.

Edited by Uruare
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My question for the people saying that this is just bad luck is, have you tried since the patch?

 

I also think that there was either a ninja nerf OR they accidentally messed something up. My experience yesterday was this: I'm leveling up BioChem (still low level; only doing level 16 items). I've been REing stacks of 5-7 items to get the blue recipe and it has worked every time, until yesterday. Yesterday, I REd 8 stacks of 5-7 items (all the same item) and did not get the blue recipe once.

 

I also noticed that the "fix" to the missions disappearing after completion did not really seem to work...

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random random random. Been trying to get next level of Red Deadly crystal (the level 39 one) but nothing in about 20 tries. Then I did a lvl 47 enhancement and got the blue quality version of that in 1 go.

 

Edit. yes this is since patch. Last night.

Edited by BigPeo
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If it IS working as intended, then I have to conclude that the time invested gathering enough materials to be able to *maybe* get that blue recipe, is simply not worth it. I refuse to spend hours and hours gathering only to throw 90% of what I gather out the window for marginal gain, IF you're lucky!
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As far as green --> blue is concerned, it doesn't seem to take that long with average luck, even at level 49. I've RE-ed a lot of different things for different alts and green --> blue is never a problem (at least I don't consider 5-20 tries a huge investment).

 

The problem is that blue --> purple takes a lot of time, due to the crafting timers of blue items, a lot of mats, and has 5 possible outcomes, of which some are abysmal. Even this wouldn't be as bad if the items had lasting value. As it is, they don't, so we're expected to put an inordinate amount of effort into obtaining subpar items.

 

If you simply trained these recipes and ran some missions to get the metals, it would be fine if you replaced them a few days or a week later. Under the current circumstances, it's not acceptable.

 

So either have a cap on number of RE attempts (say, max of 20 for blue --> epic), or buff the quality of the items produced.

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This past evening I RE'd three separate max-level recipes from blue to purple. Pretty much the same story every night last week. For some other guildmates... Not so much luck.

 

It is clearly a static percent chance to upgrade a schematic. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to believe they "deserve" to get a schem upgraded simply because they used a certain volume of resources. After all, no one forced you to RE the items you created. You could have used or sold them as well.

 

If the disappointment of not getting what you want RIGHT NOW! is too much to bear, then perhaps crafting in this game is just not for you. (And get ready for even more disappointment in real life.)

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Abies, thanks for your experience, and your completely worthless comment about how it was our problem, because we chose to RE all of our stuff. No, it wasn't our choice, that is the way the game mechanics work. If you want the best recipes, you RE stuff.

 

 

And to the person saying it seems normal, and for armormech( same crafting skill I am having issues with), I have seen along the lines of 10% rate to get blue , 5% to get purples while leveling up, but in the last week, around max skill level, have seen not a single upgraded recipe of any kind. While constantly sending a guy out making the base recipes and immediately RE'ing them when he gets back. I can understand bad luck, and a run of 30 or so being bad luck, but a run of well over 100 or so?... and these are not trying to get purples, 90% of those attempts were trying to get blue recipes...seriously those are the numbers I am up to at this point.

 

The only saving grace, is that the only 'pure credit cost' is the amount of thermoplast flux the items use, and not any other mats, since they can all be scavenged. At least for the base green recipes anyhow. I tried a few blues, but have quit, since I it didn't seem smart to throw away the rarer and costlier UW mats for no gain. When/If I start seeing any recipes pop, I might start back on the blues again, but until then, not wasting any more credits.

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This past evening I RE'd three separate max-level recipes from blue to purple. Pretty much the same story every night last week. For some other guildmates... Not so much luck.

 

It is clearly a static percent chance to upgrade a schematic. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to believe they "deserve" to get a schem upgraded simply because they used a certain volume of resources. After all, no one forced you to RE the items you created. You could have used or sold them as well.

 

If the disappointment of not getting what you want RIGHT NOW! is too much to bear, then perhaps crafting in this game is just not for you. (And get ready for even more disappointment in real life.)

 

Are you saying that you are able to sell green items on your server's GTN for anything approaching a rational price, when you take into account the time invested could have been put into other pursuits ie questing or merely mob grinding???

 

If so, you're not only extremely lucky with you REing, but you have a server community that actually rewards your effort... that's not the case on every server, I assure you.

 

No one is expecting instant gratification. No one is expecting reward without any effort. If you're happy with the system, as is, the I'm happy for you. But there is no need to get on your moral high-horse and denigrate those of us who believe that the systems blows donkey nuts...

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As far as green --> blue is concerned, it doesn't seem to take that long with average luck, even at level 49. I've RE-ed a lot of different things for different alts and green --> blue is never a problem (at least I don't consider 5-20 tries a huge investment).

 

The problem is that blue --> purple takes a lot of time, due to the crafting timers of blue items, a lot of mats, and has 5 possible outcomes, of which some are abysmal. Even this wouldn't be as bad if the items had lasting value. As it is, they don't, so we're expected to put an inordinate amount of effort into obtaining subpar items.

 

If you simply trained these recipes and ran some missions to get the metals, it would be fine if you replaced them a few days or a week later. Under the current circumstances, it's not acceptable.

 

So either have a cap on number of RE attempts (say, max of 20 for blue --> epic), or buff the quality of the items produced.

 

I totally agree with this. Schematics are simply not worth the time OR the credits right now, as it takes tens of thousands of credits on average to RE to purple, only to have people not even willing to buy anything for over 10k that's a purple when they can just go get mods with their comms and spend no credits. I've been crafting and trying to sell a lot of things on the GTN, and bottom line, even if you have GREAT luck REing, stuff simply will NOT sell at a price that will provide a profit to the crafter.

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My main is Armormech (around 350 right now) and it's only use is outfitting my companions and my lowbie alt smuggler. Putting stuff on the GTN is just a waste of time and credits even if i put them up dirt cheap.

 

But what has been ticking me off this week is the Reverse Engineering nerf, i just can't believe it hasn't been. I used to need 5-10 items from green to blue, i wont bother getting better then blue for companions. But this week with well over 90 craft across 2 toons and ONLY 1 SINGLE BLUE schematic to show for it, ridiculous.

 

IF this is working as intended right now the "colorful expletive" that decided the RE success chance needs to be fired. I don't mind working for my equipment but I want to know that I have at least a decent chance at success not winning the powerball kind of ridiculous odds that we have

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I've reverse engineered about 40 green bastion enhancement 22's today and still have not gained the blue schematic version. Normally takes less than 10 to get the blue.

 

 

If this was an intended change, you'd think it would have made it into the patch notes. Perhaps I just missed it.

 

Less than 10? Wow, then I have been broke since day 1. If I am INCREDIBLY lucky it takes less than 10.

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I have to agree with some of the sentiment here that if it is going to take 30-40 or more green items re'd to get a blue schematic, then this type of crafting really is useless, at least from my perspective as an artificer. While I burn through resources, credits, and time to struggle to get the blue schematic for a level 49 bastion enhancement, or a level 49 guardian hilt, I can instead go and earn credits, legacy xp, and get loot drops doing daily Ilum and Belsavis quests to get daily comms, and buy the purple level 50 bastion enhancements and guardian hilts.

 

I guess I'll leave the RE'ing to those that enjoy the frustration.

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It feels like it takes longer to get to purple, but I don't have any numbers to back that up.

 

I RE'd medpacks for the reusable (purple) at 8, 24, 32. Same with the armor 15s boost. I tried and tried for the 40, but have since given up. 1 more level to 50 and I'll do the Rakata one.

 

I have blue schematics for Agent-specific implants at lvl 27, 41 (39?) and 45 if memory serves, 45 is the only purple I have. However, I can make six in an evening after collecting mats, and they sell 16000. What I have not gotten lately is a crit to add a augment to the mods on a purple implant.

 

Oh wells...

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It is for sure taking alot longer or is somewhat broken since patch 1.1. I was trying to get some some lvl 9 items made on the medium synthweaving skill. The day before the patch I easily got the two items for the heavy armor but after patch i tried making 20 each for the two lvl 9 medium greens and got no blue schematics I figured something was wrong, I havent seen those kinds of number except when trying to re green lvl 49 schematics to get the blues.
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I've been make blue level 41 sniper rifles from level 33 and RE'd them all, I'm now 43 and a bit and still dont have the purple receipe. I even hit 400 in all the crew skills associated.Thats my luck.

 

But dont worry I have the level 37 sniper rifle purple at least. Pity its got shield rating increase on it. Apparently its a sniper stat.

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